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re: Our problem is that we have no identity as a team
Posted on 9/28/15 at 12:09 pm to Raoul_Duke
Posted on 9/28/15 at 12:09 pm to Raoul_Duke
quote:
3. QB- so damn sick of this Kyler Murray bs. It's cool to bring him in for certain packages or for certain plays or even a series to change the pace of the game. Allen has been straight up benched for Murray at times though. How dumb does that 1st down Murray run 2nd down Murray run 3rd down Allen pass look? Allen is the much better QB and Murray needs to sit his arse on the bench. Him and his daddy need to be humbled and realize this ain't Allen HS. The O line and WR drops make Allen look worse than he is.
THIS. Allen is MILES better at this point. Murray is capable of breaking a couple of runs before the defense adjusts and at that point he can't do anything. At this point in the season, and until we play Western Whatever, Murray needs to sit. He's had his promised playing time. He needs to learn how to throw in college as a 5'9" QB and learn the offense. We looked like MORONS subbing Allen out only to bring him back in on 3rd down because Run Every Play Murray wasn't going to be able to pass.
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Posted on 9/28/15 at 1:15 pm to Raoul_Duke
quote:
2. Spavital- what are we trying to do? Dude looks lost. KK is missed. If Tech has the talent to easily score on Arky then we have the talent.
The offensive play calling was fine and aside from some penalties, a couple sacks, and drops at inopportune times our O had their way w/Arky's D.
You guys really seem to forget that for the offense to go gang busters the defense needs to get them the ball back.
Breaking it down, A&M only had 10 possessions due to the length of time Arky was able to hold into the ball. 2 of those weren't real attempts at TD drives w/1 at the end of the second quarter that played it fairly safe and the one at the end of the game that Sumlin decided to be conservative which led to a missed FG.
Now take away the one OT drive and the offense only had the ball 7 times in regulation.
The offense scored on 4 of those 7 possessions.
On the first of the 2 FGs the TD was there if Allen gives up the ball to Carson. On the second the drive was wrecked by a sack that pushed them from first and goal at the 10 to the 20 yard line. Those two drives ended in FGs b/c of big mistakes by Allen. However, once again, we must remember that Allen is still just a true sophomore who was on only his 9th start of his career. The two mistakes he made are ones that a more experienced QB avoids. He is getting there as the lack of turnovers and 75% completion percentage vs Arky attests.
I just don't see why there is so much hand wringing over the play calling when the offense scored on 5 of 10 of the total possessions, scored on 4 of the 7 real attempts at drives in regulation, was able to engineer a late game drive and 2 point conversion to tie, had themselves set up for the winning FG in regulation w/a conservative approach following the fumble and PF by Arky, and scored in just 2 plays on the OT drive.
If you want to be worried, worry about the D being on the field for 40 minutes for just 9 total Arky drives. The silver lining to that is that at least A&M held Arky to just 3 scores on those 9 drives.
and just for comparison, vs Arizona State we had the ball 17 times w/16 of those being real attempts at TD drives w/just 5 ending in scores. (not counting the punt return TD as a possession)
vs Ball State it was 7 out of 11 w/it being 6/7 in the first half.
vs Nevada it was 8/14 w/the game essentially being over in the 3rd where it was 6/12 to that point.
This post was edited on 9/28/15 at 6:35 pm
Posted on 9/28/15 at 1:30 pm to Cooter Davenport
quote:
We looked like MORONS subbing Allen out only to bring him back in on 3rd down because Run Every Play Murray wasn't going to be able to pass.
I guess but A&M scored on 1 of the 2 drives they did that on. The first drive ended in a FG but after Kyler was taken out A&M converted for a first on 4th and 4. It ended in a FG b/c Allen took a sack on on 1st and goal at the 10 further along in the drive.
The second drive A&M was again able to convert the 3rd down when Allen came back on and the drive later ended b/c Allen once again got sacked, this time on 3rd and 3.
Those two drives dying really had very little do with Allen coming in on 3rd to pass.
This post was edited on 9/28/15 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 9/28/15 at 2:33 pm to Dr RC
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that this is Spav's best called game since I can remember him taking the role. He pretty much maximized the time he had since Arkansas hogged --no pun intended-- the ball 2/3 of the game. Allen had a stellar game, and he made the most with the talent Christian Kirk brings to the table. Last but not least... that 2-pt conversion was just fricking beautiful. Designed to perfection.
Now I'm not in his corner just yet...... hes going to have to be consistant now....but my only gripe was that we didnt get the ball enough. 28 points easily could have been 50 if we played better on defense.
Now I'm not in his corner just yet...... hes going to have to be consistant now....but my only gripe was that we didnt get the ball enough. 28 points easily could have been 50 if we played better on defense.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 5:06 pm to dead money
I have my concerns about the OC, but the problem this game was pure D. They made us look like a HS team. Our O bailed us out bigtime.
I do love the depth. Without heavy use of second-string, our first string would be gased. Chief will get it figured out. Spav has done a better job this year than last. We can't run. Rather than beat a dead horse, Carson had something like 2 runs until late. Early on I thought, "If we don't drop back like every down, we're done." Spav did a great job of staying away from running Carson, who's had limited effectiveness running the ball against poor competition (due largely to our line issues). Thought Spav did a good job of going to the pass.
I do love the depth. Without heavy use of second-string, our first string would be gased. Chief will get it figured out. Spav has done a better job this year than last. We can't run. Rather than beat a dead horse, Carson had something like 2 runs until late. Early on I thought, "If we don't drop back like every down, we're done." Spav did a great job of staying away from running Carson, who's had limited effectiveness running the ball against poor competition (due largely to our line issues). Thought Spav did a good job of going to the pass.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 11:41 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
In 2012 we knew exactly what we wanted to do and it did, every game, every possession.
Yeah, call 70 pass plays and completely abandon the run while putting up 19 pts in a game that cost us an SEC title.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 11:43 pm to Raoul_Duke
quote:
How dumb does that 1st down Murray run 2nd down Murray run 3rd down Allen pass look?
It looks great when he's marching us down the field. Not so great when WRs hold and put us behind the chains.
Posted on 9/28/15 at 11:46 pm to Raoul_Duke
quote:
Him and his daddy need to be humbled and realize this ain't Allen HS.
I'm new here, so I'll try not to be rude, but this is some ignorant shite.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 6:23 am to Warrior Poet
I have said it before, and I will say it again.
Spavital was not ready when he was promoted, and he is still not ready now. He should be coaching single-A, six-man ball somewhere in the darkest depths of Far West Texas.
Spavital was not ready when he was promoted, and he is still not ready now. He should be coaching single-A, six-man ball somewhere in the darkest depths of Far West Texas.
This post was edited on 9/29/15 at 6:31 am
Posted on 9/29/15 at 9:24 am to AggieHank86
This:
Yeah, call 70 pass plays and completely abandon the run
I remember last year when we were clamoring for more of the run game. And now this year, when we can't run, I'm not sure what we're clamoring for. I thought the decision to totally abandon the traditional run game against Arky was brilliant. It saved us. I'm not a Spav fan, but he seems to have grown some already this year. When Manziel was here, he bailed out a lot of plays that would end in QB sacks with mere mortals. I think we forget that. The O is in a bit of a pickle this year. They want to run, but the line can't give them running lanes. I'm not sure why all the focus is on Spav and not Christiansen......
Yeah, call 70 pass plays and completely abandon the run
I remember last year when we were clamoring for more of the run game. And now this year, when we can't run, I'm not sure what we're clamoring for. I thought the decision to totally abandon the traditional run game against Arky was brilliant. It saved us. I'm not a Spav fan, but he seems to have grown some already this year. When Manziel was here, he bailed out a lot of plays that would end in QB sacks with mere mortals. I think we forget that. The O is in a bit of a pickle this year. They want to run, but the line can't give them running lanes. I'm not sure why all the focus is on Spav and not Christiansen......
This post was edited on 9/29/15 at 9:25 am
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:00 am to Intheheartoftexas
quote:
They want to run, but the line can't give them running lanes.
Agree with this. Between the tackles Tra has just as good a chance getting hit in the backfield than he does picking up 2 yards.
I get why we are trying to run. We really need to be able to punch it in when we have first and goal. This is where you show whether or not you can really run the ball. 1st and goal inside the 5 against ASU... run stuffed... no points at all. Twice against Arkansas 1st and goal. 2 FGs instead of 2 TDs and the entire game swings in Arkansas' favor.
I have never ever seen a running game fixed in mid season. If you can't run with power after 1 or 2 games it just ain't going to happen. That's okay. First and goal... throw the ball 3 times. Allen can make the throws.
Let's just recognize we aren't going to run with power this year and get on with it.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:05 am to Roger Klarvin
Ok, time for me to weigh in on this thread.
What are doing with Kyler is awesome and makes perfect sense.
He is a super weapon, it gives Spav a chance to talk to Allen in the middle of a drive if needed. It gives Kyler the satisfaction of have some playing time, but it's also productive and makes other defenses prepare for Kyler to some extent.
When the time does come for Kyler to take the reigns, either through injury or Allen entering the NFL, we will automatically have the best starting qb in the nation, there will be no learning curve.
What are doing with Kyler is awesome and makes perfect sense.
He is a super weapon, it gives Spav a chance to talk to Allen in the middle of a drive if needed. It gives Kyler the satisfaction of have some playing time, but it's also productive and makes other defenses prepare for Kyler to some extent.
When the time does come for Kyler to take the reigns, either through injury or Allen entering the NFL, we will automatically have the best starting qb in the nation, there will be no learning curve.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:16 am to Old Sarge
quote:
What we are doing with Kyler is awesome and makes perfect sense
How would you like to see Kyler lined up in the backfield with Kyle Allen once in awhile? How would you like to be the linebacker that has to pick up Kyler and cover him coming out of the backfield?
All receivers to the left and have Kyler take off out of the backfield directly to the right. How do you defense that? On defense you almost have to roll someone over and consider tying up 2 people to cover a back. Someone is going to be wide open on the left as soon as they make their breaks.
Just throwing this out there. Would be confusing for the defense.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:17 am to Tridentds
I was talking about that during the game. Kyler should be our Braxton this year
This post was edited on 9/29/15 at 10:18 am
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:20 am to swaggyp
quote:
I was talking about that during the game. Kyler should be our Braxton this year
Fun to talk about anyway. He wouldn't be in there to do anything other than be a receiver or a decoy. A linebacker has to cover the back. There really is no way to get around this.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:21 am to Tridentds
quote:
How would you like to see Kyler lined up in the backfield with Kyle Allen once in awhile? How would you like to be the linebacker that has to pick up Kyler and cover him coming out of the backfield?
I would fill a jar instantly
But......
He is a Johnny like talent, I don't think you can justify the risk of injury for him. He is our future in a few years, and he is a very bright future at that.
He has a small frame right now, if he got hurt doing that we would never forgive our coaches.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 11:45 am to Tridentds
quote:
How would you like to see Kyler lined up in the backfield with Kyle Allen once in awhile? How would you like to be the linebacker that has to pick up Kyler and cover him coming out of the backfield?
would love this as a wrinkle and have wanted to see something like it for years but its probably a bit too much to ask for w/99% of all coaches.
but I'm crazy and would also be running a shotgun diamond formation w/Kirk, Speedy, and Carson in the backfield just like how I used to do on Playstation.
quote:
Just throwing this out there. Would be confusing for the defense.
to be fair, Spav did get Arky to waste 2 timeouts in the second half by putting Carson out wide and that eventually opened up a huge reception for Kirk (or Reynolds, I forget who) when he did it to them a 3rd time and Arky neglected to use their final TO.
This post was edited on 9/29/15 at 11:50 am
Posted on 9/29/15 at 11:56 am to Dr RC
the hardon our fans have for Murray is perplexing. A couple of points
- Kyler cannot run the zone read just yet. He's struggling with the mesh and putting the ball on the ground. When he runs it so far it's been entirely fake (the decision is made before the snap)
- we are not an option team and Kyler is in no way an option QB. Option QBs take hits. Big ones. We use the speed option to force the defense to play honest. That's it's entire purpose and we don't run it into numbers so that the QB doesn't take hits. Forcing it in the "Kyler package" would be brain damaged given the kid is so small
- Kyler checked out of 2 pass plays at the line in order to call his own number vs Arky
- Kyle Allen deserves more respect than our fans show. The crowd went crazy when Kyler came in. I want Kyler to be successful but Kyle is successful ffs
- Kyler cannot run the zone read just yet. He's struggling with the mesh and putting the ball on the ground. When he runs it so far it's been entirely fake (the decision is made before the snap)
- we are not an option team and Kyler is in no way an option QB. Option QBs take hits. Big ones. We use the speed option to force the defense to play honest. That's it's entire purpose and we don't run it into numbers so that the QB doesn't take hits. Forcing it in the "Kyler package" would be brain damaged given the kid is so small
- Kyler checked out of 2 pass plays at the line in order to call his own number vs Arky
- Kyle Allen deserves more respect than our fans show. The crowd went crazy when Kyler came in. I want Kyler to be successful but Kyle is successful ffs
Posted on 9/29/15 at 12:06 pm to tmc94
since i'm on the topic
The playcalling vs Arky was outstanding. Kyle made one mistake all game and it was on the goalline when he made the wrong decision on the zone read (Carson would have walked in).
Our personnel and formation caused Arky problems all night. They lost Kirk multiple times. Their game plan was to shade to Reynolds fyi to try to take him away. They shaded to him in zone and doubled him in man. We made several small wrinkles to keep that from happening and the biggest drive of the game Reynolds got loose and the 2 point conversion they left him in one on one vs a corner that had no chance
We can't uptempo right now because we only have 1 back and he is 240 pounds and gets tired. We just don't trust the others to block which leaves them on the sideline. I think it also left Carson without a burst later in the game as the screen play that turned into the other FG was perfectly called and executed (as it was in the first quarter when Carson tripped over Cheek short of the marker).
Anyway, the whole premise of this thread - that we need an identity - misunderstands the air raid. The air raid is about getting mismatches in any way possible. That's it. An identity is the antithesis of that. The guys that run it are all very creative and use all kinds of different things based on their personnel. Holgo has run diamond and 5-wide in the same game multiple times. Leach was a damn assassin early in his career but late, now that he's "found an identity" his offense is much less effective.
The people who are the best at it are the ones that piss the fans off because they don't do whatever fans want. They are anti-establishment. It's what Sumlin wants and I can pull up quotes throughout 2012 from our fans that are just embarrassing now that the herd has decided KK is a great play caller.
The playcalling vs Arky was outstanding. Kyle made one mistake all game and it was on the goalline when he made the wrong decision on the zone read (Carson would have walked in).
Our personnel and formation caused Arky problems all night. They lost Kirk multiple times. Their game plan was to shade to Reynolds fyi to try to take him away. They shaded to him in zone and doubled him in man. We made several small wrinkles to keep that from happening and the biggest drive of the game Reynolds got loose and the 2 point conversion they left him in one on one vs a corner that had no chance
We can't uptempo right now because we only have 1 back and he is 240 pounds and gets tired. We just don't trust the others to block which leaves them on the sideline. I think it also left Carson without a burst later in the game as the screen play that turned into the other FG was perfectly called and executed (as it was in the first quarter when Carson tripped over Cheek short of the marker).
Anyway, the whole premise of this thread - that we need an identity - misunderstands the air raid. The air raid is about getting mismatches in any way possible. That's it. An identity is the antithesis of that. The guys that run it are all very creative and use all kinds of different things based on their personnel. Holgo has run diamond and 5-wide in the same game multiple times. Leach was a damn assassin early in his career but late, now that he's "found an identity" his offense is much less effective.
The people who are the best at it are the ones that piss the fans off because they don't do whatever fans want. They are anti-establishment. It's what Sumlin wants and I can pull up quotes throughout 2012 from our fans that are just embarrassing now that the herd has decided KK is a great play caller.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 12:07 pm to tmc94
quote:thank you
Kyle Allen deserves more respect than our fans show. The crowd went crazy when Kyler came in. I want Kyler to be successful but Kyle is successful ffs
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