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re: Why is over signing bad again?
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:10 pm to NYCAuburn
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:10 pm to NYCAuburn
My thing is I don't feel sorry for these kids. I don't feel sorry for them if they're sold a pipe dream and things don't work out like they were told. I don't feel sorry for them if they underachieve in the classroom, on the field, as a citizen, etc., and they lose their scholarship.
It is a privilege to go to school for free, don't frick it up.
And I know some will say that Saban is just cutting to make room for new talent and it isn't the kid's fault, I don't believe that.
It is a privilege to go to school for free, don't frick it up.
And I know some will say that Saban is just cutting to make room for new talent and it isn't the kid's fault, I don't believe that.
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Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:15 pm to Govt Tide
To me, the problem, if there is one, is with the player that loses his scholarship for no other reason than someone better comes along. If the kid is recruited by the coach and does everything he is suppose to as a student athlete, then he shouldn't get cut because the team wants room to sign the next 25 5*s. I understand that scholarships are 1 year renewable, but that kid was most likely promised a chance at a good education. That is still suppose to be what college is about, even though I am not so naive as to think that is reality.
If a kid gets cut due to his own actions, that is on him. If a kid signs a loi knowing that a gray shirt is possible, I am ok with that. If a kid signs an LOI and has no idea from the coach that a gray shirt is possible, I have a problem with that.
If a kid gets cut due to his own actions, that is on him. If a kid signs a loi knowing that a gray shirt is possible, I am ok with that. If a kid signs an LOI and has no idea from the coach that a gray shirt is possible, I have a problem with that.
This post was edited on 5/18/11 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:27 pm to RJYH
quote:
My thing is I don't feel sorry for these kids. I don't feel sorry for them if they're sold a pipe dream and things don't work out like they were told. I don't feel sorry for them if they underachieve in the classroom, on the field, as a citizen, etc., and they lose their scholarship.
The thing is what if they did qualify(grade wise)? And The coaches felt he played well enough in HS to deserve a scholly and and accept his LOI. He should deserve to get his scholly the first year.
quote:
It is a privilege to go to school for free, don't frick it up.
And I know some will say that Saban is just cutting to make room for new talent and it isn't the kid's fault, I don't believe that.
Again, I dont believe this is the issue people have. it is before the ever enroll. When they are told they dont have room on the team for them this year and have to wait until january or never.
As I said before, I dont know the rule, but if a kid signed his letter and was told they dont have room for him, if he could go anywhere else he wanted, then there should be no problem with the oversigning debate. But I have a feeling thats not the case and the coach's dont release them in all the cases
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:30 pm to WDE24
quote:
To me, the problem, if there is one, is with the player that loses his scholarship for no other reason than someone better comes along.
I kind of agree and disagree. like I said in my post above, similar situation. If the kid gets cut and can transfer to any school he wishes, without having to sit out a year, or go to a lesser division, etc.., then there is not that big of a problem. But thats not the case.
This post was edited on 5/18/11 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:30 pm to RollTideATL
quote:
Why is over signing bad again?
I forgot to mention.. It's not so much overSIGNING, as it is overENROLLING...
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:33 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:I do have a problem with this happening. I'm speaking as a Bama fan, I haven't heard of Saban treating a kid like this.
When they are told they dont have room on the team for them this year and have to wait until january or never.
I know we aren't talking about Bama exclusively.
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:37 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:I still have a problem with it and think this is where Richt was right about a win at all cost attitude. However, it is hard to blame the coach if he is acting within the rules with the way big time college football is. Someone else has to place the limits on the coaches and then enforce them.
I kind of agree and disagree. like I said in my post above, similar situation. If the kid gets cut and can transfer to any school he wishes, without having to sit out a year, or go to a lesser division, etc.., then there is not that big of a problem. But thats not the case.
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:40 pm to RJYH
quote:
I know we aren't talking about Bama exclusively.
no, we aren't, just the overall concept. Bama/Saban just always get pulled into it by the general media and everyone else.
quote:
I do have a problem with this happening. I'm speaking as a Bama fan, I haven't heard of Saban treating a kid like this.
So if you were a recruit and you could have gone to a dozen or so schools and were really torn between 2 or 3, yet you decided to sign your letter to a school, but when you get there you are told, sorry but we dont have room. You are going to have to either wait to enroll(don't have money for school) or pay your own way and hope you make the cut next season. While knowing you could have gone to any or most of those other schools and been enrolled.
You wouldn't be a little irritated?
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:44 pm to WDE24
quote:
I still have a problem with it and think this is where Richt was right about a win at all cost attitude. However, it is hard to blame the coach if he is acting within the rules with the way big time college football is. Someone else has to place the limits on the coaches and then enforce them.
True, if the coach states it's a one year scholly to be renewed upon performance goals, then it should be in the LOI. I guess again, it all goes back to the coach and how they are selling the recruit.
Again, this pertains to cutting them after they have been there a year or so, not, not allowing them to enroll because they signed too many eligible recruits
This post was edited on 5/18/11 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:45 pm to NYCAuburn
No doubt. But that the way it goes, I reckon.
It has to be obvious wrongdoing on the program's part for me to feel sorry for the kid.
I guess I'm cold blooded, like Rick James.
It has to be obvious wrongdoing on the program's part for me to feel sorry for the kid.
I guess I'm cold blooded, like Rick James.
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:47 pm to RJYH
quote:
No doubt. But that the way it goes, I reckon.
It has to be obvious wrongdoing on the program's part for me to feel sorry for the kid.
I guess I'm cold blooded, like Rick James
I think, this is more of an NCAA rule issue as pertaining to them being able to go to another school if not allowed to enroll or were cut for performance.
If so, I highly doubt this would be a debate at all
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:49 pm to RollTideATL
My only problem with it is that the kids should be given a full release with no conditions on where they go. Take the 2 Mobile kids from a few years back for example. Miles game Phelon and the DL who's name I forget a full release which is the way I believe it should be handled. If the kid isn't good enough or dedicated enough to contribute at your school then why should a coach care where he ends up. On the NCAA end I believe they should change the rule to where if you are cut/released or whatever you want to call it that the player shouldn't have to sit out at all instead of the manditory 1 year that is in place now.
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:50 pm to NYCAuburn
I wish there was a way to not punish the kid for a year for going to another school. I imagine the NCAA doesn't want to open a can of worms and allow players to skip from one school to another.
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:53 pm to marshallcotiger
quote:
marshallcotiger
Exactly my thoughts, as I have stated.
And I guess this is where Bama(not Saban) might get pulled back in, for when Bryant would enroll everybody, so they wouldn't be on other teams.
Posted on 5/18/11 at 12:58 pm to RJYH
quote:
I wish there was a way to not punish the kid for a year for going to another school. I imagine the NCAA doesn't want to open a can of worms and allow players to skip from one school to another.
But if they just said, if the guy gets cut or not allowed to enroll even though he is eligible, that would work IMO. The fact is, its the system(NCAA rules) that hurt them, more than a school that oversigns
Posted on 5/18/11 at 1:07 pm to NYCAuburn
Get rid of the 85 total rule. If your kids stay in school you end up with more players. You can enroll 25 new players regardless of how many left during that year. This would reward the true student athletes. Coaches would not have to run kids off or use fake medical hardship scholarships to make room for other players. .
Posted on 5/18/11 at 1:12 pm to TTsTowel
quote:
I heard somewhere that The Bear used to recruit all the best players, then cut some so that other teams couldn't have them.. That's partially what oversigning is, IMO. Bama has players like Corey Grant, Jerrell Harris, Petey Smith, etc.. That would start at a lot of other SEC schools. A bunch of them that have been getting cut would also either contribute for another team, or possibly even start...
If they could have started at other SEC schools, then they should have just signed with other SEC schools. Nobody forced them to sign with Saban/Bama. Simple really ~
Posted on 5/18/11 at 1:12 pm to auburntiger77
quote:
Get rid of the 85 total rule. If your kids stay in school you end up with more players. You can enroll 25 new players regardless of how many left during that year
But that still leaves you hanging on, if you can only accept 25 LOI's then what if only 10 qualify. The school's will get screwed
Posted on 5/18/11 at 1:19 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
Do you really believe this to be 100% true? And I am not just pointing Saban out here, but all coaches in recruiting. It is a sales game. Most of these kids would not sign somewhere over another school if the coach just said, "well you might get a scholly if you sign a LOI". But only if everyone doesnt qualify
Good Lord have Mercy!
Don't you think by now ~ after years and years of people bitchin and moaning about Nick Saban and his recruiting system that every fricking HS player and their parents know what the deal is with Saban by NOW?
Saban has been recruiting Bama for nearly 5 (FIVE) freaking years now. Believe me when I tell you that HS players, their HS coaches and their damn parents KNOW the possibility of riding the bench at Bama, or not having their scholarship renewed in the future. THEY KNOW!
Saban's recruiting made headlines for years.
No one is forcing them to sign with Saban ~ they are doing it at their own free will. Many of them are willing to take the huge risk obviously.
Posted on 5/18/11 at 1:26 pm to auburntiger77
quote:
Get rid of the 85 total rule. If your kids stay in school you end up with more players. You can enroll 25 new players regardless of how many left during that year. This would reward the true student athletes. Coaches would not have to run kids off or use fake medical hardship scholarships to make room for other players. .
The school would be screwed, especially if a ton of them failed to qualify, remember some of Tub's recruiting classes?
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