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re: Why didn't the other Pac 12 teams run the Washington defense against Leach?
Posted on 10/20/20 at 9:40 pm to Mithridates6
Posted on 10/20/20 at 9:40 pm to Mithridates6
quote:
Budda Baker and Byron Murphy last night for the Cards went there. They played Bama pretty respectable in the 2016 playoff
Their defensive backs were very, very good.
Budda Baker, Byron Murphy, Kevin King, Sidney Jones - all of them were 2nd round picks.
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Posted on 10/20/20 at 9:48 pm to dbuchanon
quote:
If a LB can cover your WR in zone, you have some slow arse WRs
Which is also a problem, State doesn't have speed at WR to take the top off of defenses. But it starts up front
Lbers don't have to cover receivers in the drop 8 zones. They have to be able to play in space and read the QB and come down hill on the short checkdowns and few runs. Most SEC teams have linebackers that can do this pretty good.
Also you need 6-8 defensive backs that are ready to play....again most SEC defenses will have that.
And it doesn't matter how fast your receivers are...your not gonna take the top off that Drop 8 zone.
You have to run the ball and force the defense out of it which Leach will not do.
This post was edited on 10/20/20 at 9:51 pm
Posted on 10/20/20 at 9:57 pm to Jack Ruby
quote:
Why didn't the other Pac 12 teams run the Washington defense against Leach?
The Pac-12 is a shitshow so only a handful of teams per season had the combination of talent and coaching to pull it off.
Posted on 10/20/20 at 9:59 pm to Jack Ruby
Washington State beat Washington in 2012, throwing for 350+ yards and scoring 3 rushing touchdowns (they scored 6 the entire season)
Washington in 2013, outrushed Washington State 244 to 44.
Washington outrushed them again in 2014, 188 to 21.
Same thing in 2015. Washington ran for 240 yards compared to Wazzu's 31
2016 Washington outrushed Wazzu 168 to 65 in the snow.
2017 Washington outrushed Wazzu 328 to -24
2018 Washington outrushed Wazzu 258 to 85
2019 Washington outrushed Wazzu 98 to 31
By keeping a Leach offense off the field, you get them out of synch and by removing any success they have running the ball you can drop 8 all day.
In Leach's 3 best seasons (2015, 2016 and 2018) at Wazzu they ran for over 1,000 yards. In 2016, when he came within 1 win of the PAC 12 title game, his Cougars rushed for nearly 1,600 yards.
Washington in 2013, outrushed Washington State 244 to 44.
Washington outrushed them again in 2014, 188 to 21.
Same thing in 2015. Washington ran for 240 yards compared to Wazzu's 31
2016 Washington outrushed Wazzu 168 to 65 in the snow.
2017 Washington outrushed Wazzu 328 to -24
2018 Washington outrushed Wazzu 258 to 85
2019 Washington outrushed Wazzu 98 to 31
By keeping a Leach offense off the field, you get them out of synch and by removing any success they have running the ball you can drop 8 all day.
In Leach's 3 best seasons (2015, 2016 and 2018) at Wazzu they ran for over 1,000 yards. In 2016, when he came within 1 win of the PAC 12 title game, his Cougars rushed for nearly 1,600 yards.
This post was edited on 10/20/20 at 10:02 pm
Posted on 10/20/20 at 9:59 pm to PorkSammich
quote:
Better question is how did LSU not stop it?
Remember Pelini not being able to figure out Arkansas' sandlot "wildcat" plays at LSU in 2006-7? Tennessee and Mizzou snuffed it out pretty easily. Pelini is just too arrogant to learn anything
Posted on 10/20/20 at 10:21 pm to theenemy
quote:
And it doesn't matter how fast your receivers are...your not gonna take the top off that Drop 8 zone.
If my X is faster than your Y... Especially in zone if he's getting a clean release off the los. You act like Zone coverages aren't beat weekly-There is no end all-, trust me I know... I'm a UF fan, that's all our damn DC plays is fkn zone lmao
quote:
You have to be able to run the ball and force the defense out of it
FIFY
Posted on 10/20/20 at 10:24 pm to Mithridates6
quote:
Washington is one of the more talented teams in the Pac on a yearly basis
Only under Chris Petersen. They were painfully average under Sark, and downright dog shite before him. Leach came at just the wrong time to get leveled by Petersen - who was terrific and outstanding.
Posted on 10/20/20 at 10:29 pm to dbuchanon
quote:
Found the problem. How were they before Leach? Same with TT??
They were pretty garbage before Leach. Not sure about Tech, but they've struggled to reach bowls after he left. Leach is a pretty good coach. He's better than anyone State had before Mullen with the possible exception of Sherrill. But the SEC is in an arms race where pretty much everyone but Kentucky and Vanderbilt eventually needs someone with a higher top end than Leach.
Posted on 10/20/20 at 10:30 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Taurean Henderson (sp?) had a good season rushing for Leach when they made the Cotton Bowl in 2005 I believe. Not his best team, but TTU hadn't been there in a while
Posted on 10/20/20 at 10:32 pm to Jack Ruby
They didnt have STUDSON CLARK #HudIsland 
Posted on 10/20/20 at 10:50 pm to Jack Ruby
Because Leech's offense is a gimmick. Petrino's was much better and his offense still struggled against great defenses.
The PAC 12 doesn't play defense, so it was perfect for Leech. He'll score some big upsets in the SEC, but will also struggle more than ever before. What he did at Kentucky was only remarkable because Kentucky had struggled for so long and SEC defenses were not on the same level as they have been since.
The PAC 12 doesn't play defense, so it was perfect for Leech. He'll score some big upsets in the SEC, but will also struggle more than ever before. What he did at Kentucky was only remarkable because Kentucky had struggled for so long and SEC defenses were not on the same level as they have been since.
Posted on 10/20/20 at 10:53 pm to redeye
quote:
his offense still struggled against great defenses
Whos offense doesn't?
Posted on 10/20/20 at 11:00 pm to redeye
quote:
He'll score some big upsets in the SEC, but will also struggle more than ever before
In 2008, his Texas Tech squad handed #1 Texas their sole loss of the season, and knocked them out of the NC game single-handed. Then, his 11–1 Tech team met 8–4 Ole Miss in a bowl and lost by two touchdowns. That's the Mike Leach experience in a nutshell. He'll get you to 11 wins once in a decade, and that's pretty badass. The rest of the time, you have shite like that to look forward to.
Teams like Texas Tech and Washington State are perfect for Leach. MSU might seem on par with those schools at first glance, but Mullen has shown MSU fans that it can be done there, and they're hungry, and the SEC is a football first conference. State is actually a world apart from what they were in the Croom days. I can't imagine they'd want to keep Leach any longer than five or six years. He'll have crested by then, gotten them some memorable wins, and then they can usher him out the next time he goes 5–7/6–7 and bring in whatever offensive coach is on fire at the time.
Posted on 10/20/20 at 11:08 pm to dbuchanon
well it comes down to balance > one-dimensional. all offenses work if they are balanced.
Posted on 10/20/20 at 11:14 pm to VagueMessage
quote:
Mullen has shown MSU fans that it can be done there
What can be done there? He never won the West. And in that great 14 season they had they went on to lose to Georgia Tech in the Orange Bowl by 2 tds
This post was edited on 10/20/20 at 11:19 pm
Posted on 10/20/20 at 11:16 pm to Slackaveli
quote:
balanced.
There's different definitions for balance. Id say execution trumps balance
You rarely (If ever) hear a HC now say he wants to be 50/50 balanced on Offense. Mullen said he wants to run more than pass. He says we're a power running team all the time but right now he doesn't have the players to do that in the trenches so we're more pass happy
This post was edited on 10/20/20 at 11:24 pm
Posted on 10/20/20 at 11:19 pm to dbuchanon
quote:
Whos offense doesn't?
The difference is that a great defense was the only way to beat a great Petrino team. Auburn did beat him with Newton, but I think we win that game more than half the time. The other losses in 2010-2011 were to Alabama (twice) and LSU (once).
Posted on 10/20/20 at 11:21 pm to redeye
quote:
Because Leech's offense is a gimmick.
His gimmick offense put up better offensive #s than Ark and KY
Leach's MS State offense had 400 total yards (87 rushing) to Ark 275 yds (63 rushing). He also had double the offense of KY. Both loses. I don't care what kind of offense you have if you turn the ball over 5-6 times a game you won't win a game.
If you look at the stats of those two games. State did better in every category except turnovers and pick sixes
This post was edited on 10/20/20 at 11:24 pm
Posted on 10/20/20 at 11:24 pm to weadjust
quote:
I don't care what kind of offense you have if you turn the ball over 5-6 times a game you won't win a game.
And therein lies the rub. Not to mention that TOP becomes important when you're scoring too fast.
Posted on 10/20/20 at 11:31 pm to VagueMessage
quote:
In 2008, his Texas Tech squad handed #1 Texas their sole loss of the season, and knocked them out of the NC game single-handed. Then, his 11–1 Tech team met 8–4 Ole Miss in a bowl and lost by two touchdowns.
You're leaving out something CRITICAL that season.
They were #2 in the nation and beat #8 Oklahoma State 56-20.
Then #2 Texas Tech at 10-0 went to Norman to face #5 Oklahoma.
Final score: Oklahoma 65, Texas Tech 21. Oklahoma led 28-0 in the 2nd and 42-7 at the half. Ballgame.
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