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re: Vol assaults AR fans post-game
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:30 pm to Che Boludo
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:30 pm to Che Boludo
quote:
But the rest is a dumb take.
Nah. This player is not to blame for pushing a fan off of him. And shouldn't be. The trespassing fan is to blame.
1
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:30 pm to imjustafatkid
Uncle Lou (for those who still watch his arrogant BS) almost got his arse beat by a fat Vol while watching all the games at a South Carolina casino. 
Of course he was wearing his "team a-hole" cap and shouting as loudly as he can about '98 and how the Vols will never return to those glory days blah blah. Worth a watch if you havent seen it yet.
Of course he was wearing his "team a-hole" cap and shouting as loudly as he can about '98 and how the Vols will never return to those glory days blah blah. Worth a watch if you havent seen it yet.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:33 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Honestly.....your honest opinion. What can a school do if they want to ensure no students storm the field? I just want your opinion. Your honest opinion.
You have security and police position themselves around the field prior to the end of the game. A large number. Especially at the student section. You can often see the fans preparing to rush the field, it isn’t a surprise.
You make sure that security has lots of handcuffs and/or zip ties. When fans start hopping onto the field they are immediately taken to the ground and handcuffed with their hands behind their back. You just keep doing this until the fans behind them change their minds.
The Alabama student section tried to rush the field after Van Tiffin won the Iron Bowl at Legion Field in 1985. The Birmingham police department put a stop to that. After the first 100 or so fans were flopping on their bellies like fish, the rest of the fans rethought things. Yeah, a few made it past the first line. They suffered the worst. Some made it back over the fence. Most didn’t, they took some punishment. They took all those people to jail.
Thousands of Alabama fans planned to rush the field that night. They quickly changed their minds.
Alabama didn’t lose all their fans. Support for the program didn’t disappear.
With enough security and enough handcuffs, and a flashlight or two, it is easy to stop fans from storming the field.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:33 pm to Litigator
quote:
Are you all really that stupid? Had I been there I should have just pulled out a gun and shot the woman for being on the field.
My advice? Maybe go to law school or at least take some legal courses.
We get it. You are a lawyer. Doesn't mean you are worth a damn at it or have any specialty in assault cases on athletic fields which is a highly exceptional situation. In my experience, the more an attorney feels the need to remind non-attorneys in a debate that they are attorneys, the more they are losing the debate.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:34 pm to imjustafatkid
No, just because you can fine someone for trespassing does not mean the field opens up to purge law. A fkn assault is still a fkn assault you donkey.
I guess if you want to murder a random person just make UAB fat kid king & volunteer to carry the Gatorade for Tennessee.
The victim would be held responsible for their death as long as they weren’t with the press or one of the football teams.
I guess if you want to murder a random person just make UAB fat kid king & volunteer to carry the Gatorade for Tennessee.
The victim would be held responsible for their death as long as they weren’t with the press or one of the football teams.
This post was edited on 10/6/24 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:38 pm to dchog
quote:
They pay season tickets and hundreds or thousands of dollars to go to these games.
Let them storm the field and celebrate.
Buying a ticket to a sporting event or concert gives me the right to run onto the field/stage while the performers are still on? Try running up on the stage at the next concert you go to and explain to the body guards tackling you that "it's ok, I have a ticket."
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:40 pm to MillerLiteTime
Yes.
I ran on the field before and had zero issues. The Arkansas players loved it.
I ran on the field before and had zero issues. The Arkansas players loved it.
This post was edited on 10/6/24 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:40 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
No. The players are paid. There is a difference. When you are getting paid it changes things. They turn into paid entertainers.
Many of those students rushing the field also receive scholarship and/or grant money. They are being paid too. Should those students that receive scholarship and/or grant money be held to this same higher standard? They are being paid too, so I guess you have no choice but to believe this.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:42 pm to MillerLiteTime
quote:
Buying a ticket to a sporting event or concert gives me the right to run onto the field/stage while the performers are still on?
You’re correct on this specific piece but failing to realize you are using the exact same logic to defend the player.
The civil legality of whether or not a fan should be on the field gives a player the right to do anything to any fan on the field, including unprovoked assault?
Just because the fan is on the field?
You’re arguing the exact same BS.
The legality of field storming may be tangentially related, but the player’s accountability for his own actions is a separate issue.
One does not excuse the other — this is real law it’s not like offsetting penalties bro
This post was edited on 10/6/24 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:42 pm to imjustafatkid
But do you not understand that the trespass justification defense of property theory only works if you are the property owner or a person who has a proprietary interest in the property or someone acting at their direction such as law enforcement officers? Then said property owner can use non deadly physical force and only that force which is reasonably necessary to terminate the trespass. That’s Arkansas law and that is what applies to this case because that is where the incident happened although other state’s laws would be very similar on this point. The Tennessee player does not fall into that category by anyone’s stretch of the imagination-he had no legal authority over the field of play and was a guest there to play the game. Even police who could also rightfully enforce the property owner’s decision to terminate a trespass cannot simply shove people down-if you don’t believe me review the results of civil rights lawsuits where excessive force was used. If the fan/trespasser is fleeing they can tackle them but there was nothing like that involved in this case.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:46 pm to DeathByTossDive225
quote:
The civil legality of whether or not a fan should be on the field gives a player the right to do anything to any fan on the field, including unprovoked assault?
Just because the fan is on the field?
You’re arguing the exact same BS.
The player’s accountability vs the legality of field storming may be related, but they are two separate issues. One does not excuse the other — this is real law it’s not like offsetting penalties bro
We are not arguing the same thing. No, the mere act of trespassing on the field of play doesn't give athletes the right to do anything. For example, if the player had shoved him to the ground, then smashed his face in 5 times with his helmet, of course that is not reasonable. A simple push to the ground of someone running at him saying who knows what? Yes that is reasonable under the circumstances and any court would agree.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:48 pm to MillerLiteTime
quote:
We are not arguing the same thing. No, the mere act of trespassing on the field of play doesn't give athletes the right to do anything. For example, if the player had shoved him to the ground, then smashed his face in 5 times with his helmet, of course that is not reasonable. A simple push to the ground of someone running at him saying who knows what? Yes that is reasonable under the circumstances and any court would agree.
No, you’re arguing degree of battery vs assault. No court would agree that the player was entirely within the law.
The only question is whether the fan presses charges, and they probably don’t — but if they did they would win.
ETA I’m okay with having a conversation about field storming — I just don’t think it’s a reasonable excuse in this case & that kid is a POS.
Same one who laid the dirty hit on green.
This post was edited on 10/6/24 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:50 pm to DeathByTossDive225
quote:
No, just because you can fine someone for trespassing does not mean the field opens up to purge law. A fkn assault is still a fkn assault you donkey.
Seeing as not one single player has had any actual legal charges, it appears you are wrong.
Can you find and provide one example of charges being filed against a player in a field-storming incident?
I don’t think charges were even filed against the Oregon player videoed sucker punching the Oregon State fan from behind. Please provide us all these cases that have been brought against players. Thank you.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:52 pm to Litigator
quote:
But do you not understand that the trespass justification defense of property theory only works if you are the property owner or a person who has a proprietary interest in the property or someone acting at their direction such as law enforcement officers?
Other than as a mitigating factor a juror might take into account, the trespass issue isn't very relevant to the self defense argument as to why he had a right to reasonably push the student. So I am with you there. But it is easy to make the self defense case of pushing down someone running at you with unknown intentions if you feared for your safety, which the player would of course claim.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:53 pm to captdalton
quote:
You have security and police position themselves around the field prior to the end of the game. A large number. Especially at the student section. You can often see the fans preparing to rush the field, it isn’t a surprise.
You make sure that security has lots of handcuffs and/or zip ties. When fans start hopping onto the field they are immediately taken to the ground and handcuffed with their hands behind their back. You just keep doing this until the fans behind them change their minds.
The Alabama student section tried to rush the field after Van Tiffin won the Iron Bowl at Legion Field in 1985. The Birmingham police department put a stop to that. After the first 100 or so fans were flopping on their bellies like fish, the rest of the fans rethought things. Yeah, a few made it past the first line. They suffered the worst. Some made it back over the fence. Most didn’t, they took some punishment. They took all those people to jail.
Thousands of Alabama fans planned to rush the field that night. They quickly changed their minds.
Alabama didn’t lose all their fans. Support for the program didn’t disappear.
With enough security and enough handcuffs, and a flashlight or two, it is easy to stop fans from storming the field
Very easy to create a much more dangerous situation like that
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:53 pm to captdalton
quote:
Seeing as not one single player has had any actual legal charges, it appears you are wrong
The decision to press charges is up to the plaintiff & lawyers/courts cost money.
The school might also simultaneously press charges for field storming to discourage it.
The fact that charges haven’t been pressed isn’t an argument man — you’d only have an argument if someone pressed charges & then the offending player were acquitted.
What the Tenner player did there was absolutely 100% illegal. Assault & possibly battery.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:53 pm to Litigator
When the fan rushed the field at the player and he pushes them it could be considered as self-defense. As long as he believed he was in danger and the response is reasonable, he was within his rights. He can’t use excessive force, or he could face issues like a battery charge or a civil lawsuit.
However the fan broke laws by rushing the field, even without touching him. They could be guilty of trespassing, disorderly conduct, or reckless endangerment as well as numerous other violations.
However the fan broke laws by rushing the field, even without touching him. They could be guilty of trespassing, disorderly conduct, or reckless endangerment as well as numerous other violations.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:55 pm to MillerLiteTime
quote:
it is easy to make the self defense case of pushing down someone running at you with unknown intentions if you feared for your safety, which the player would of course claim
Only in this case we have video & the guy was pushed in the back.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:56 pm to DeathByTossDive225
quote:
The only question is whether the fan presses charges, and they probably don’t — but if they did they would win.
Completely disagree. DA likely wouldn't even seek indictment. If they did, good chance the judge tosses it. If it makes it to a jury, only one dissent would prevent a conviction, and as this thread shows, there isn't unanimous agreement here.
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:57 pm to TheAlchemist
quote:
As long as he believed he was in danger
Pushing someone from behind is like shooting someone from behind.
Zero case for self defense.
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