re: South Carolina and the ACC :: Why the divorce?

If this were true, the planet would stop rotating.

As a slight aside, we won the ACC in football in 1969, won the ACC in basketball in 1970, won the ACC tournament in basketball in 1971 and left the conference before the 1971-72 season.

As another tragic aside, that 1970 basketball team was 25-3 (14-0) but missed the NCAA tournament because we lost in the finals of the ACC tournament and back then only the tournament champs went.

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(Got in a buttload of fist fights on the field with Miami, who was also independent and whom SC played regularly as such, during the independent stint...still bad blood between SC and Miami)

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I knew there was a reason I liked y'all



















Uh, I mean.....yeah, we finna kick y'all's as[etc., etc., so on, so forth]...

SCLib explained it much better than I did

If I may chime in on this one . . . long, but for those who are interested . . .

My dad played football for Clemson & was for a long time close to its athletic administration. When I was a kid, he related the long story to me. What the Gamecock posters have said upthread is mostly true, though there was never any tacit pact between Clemson & USC to withdraw from the ACC in tandem. But that's really only half of the story anyway.

Basketball & Frank McGuire were one major factor in this, but equally important (if not more so) were football & Paul Dietzel, who became South Carolina's HC & AD in 1966. Though he delivered the school's 1st (& to this date only) conference championship in 1969, he never achieved long-term success & was finally run off in 1974. But nonetheless he was the visionary who led USC athletics into the modern era. He oversaw major upgrades to facilities, including the Carolina Coliseum, the west upper deck & new west lower deck & locker rooms @ Williams-Brice in 1970-71. He also became convinced (not without reason) that ACC membership was a drag that was keeping USC from becoming the big-time football program that it always wanted to be.

In those days, the ACC required a minimum 800 SAT score for athletes to qualify. Obviously, this fell hardest on Clemson & South Carolina, because the public schools in S.C. were overall pretty substandard & the education of black children had been particularly neglected as S.C. schools weren't integrated until 1968-69. Even so, Clemson remained more-or-less able to compete within the ACC, but we would get killed literally every time we played an SEC team. (It was the games during this period that caused our series records vs. Georgia & Auburn to be so lopsided.) No doubt Frank Howard was just as bitter about the 800 rule as Dietzel. Case in point: in 1967 we won the ACC with a 6-0 conference record but were 0-4 outside the league, with losses to Georgia Tech, Georgia, Auburn & Alabama. The ACC started out as a reasonably good football conference, as Clemson, Duke, N.C. & Maryland all had good teams during the 1950s, but by the mid 1960s ACC football had fallen into a rut of neglect & mediocrity, while the SEC thrived. (In 1965 we were actually conference co-champions, with a record of 4-3 ACC & 5-5 overall!) But this sorry state of ACC football appeared not to matter one whit to the conference's leadership - by this time basketball was the big money-maker for the ACC, with its rich TV contracts & large arenas (by the standards of the day), its pressure-packed tournament, & so many great teams every year.

For years Clemson & USC complained bitterly about the arbitrarily higher academic standard, but to no avail, & both schools chafed under the rule of the Tobacco Road schools. The ACC also imposed scholarship limitations on football at a time when the NCAA didn't. And as both schools have always cared deeply about football success, we both found ourselves sort of out-of-place in that league amidst the indifference to football displayed by the other schools. Things finally got to the breaking point in 1970 when USC carried out its threat to walk if the 800 rule wasn't rescinded.

Here is where the narratives diverge - there was never any pact between Clemson & USC to leave the ACC together. USC was intent on leaving all along, while Clemson would consider leaving only as a last resort. Clemson's leadership decided instead to pursue the matter of the 800 rule in federal court, & it was in 1972 found to be unconstitutional as a violation of the 14th amendment & subsequently was rescinded by the ACC. In 1973 the NCAA imposed nation-wide scholarship limits, thus eliminating that other competitive disadvantage in football.

USC went sulking out of the ACC with both middle fingers in the air, & the ACC basically said back to them "don't let the door hit your arse on the way out". But it wasn't long before USC came to regret its decision. Because of its fan support, USC was able to survive financially as an independent in football & was even able to schedule home-&-homes with big-time opponents (Southern Cal, Michigan, Notre Dame, Miami, Nebraska), but it was only able escape its historical mediocrity for a few brief flashes - the George Rogers era of '79 & '80, the Black Magic season in '84, & the Todd Ellis-led teams in '87 & '88. But if the effect on the football program was kind of a wash, leaving the ACC absolutely, undeniably killed USC basketball. Their program was among the nation's elite in 1970-71 & remained competitive as an independent for a few years after. But outside the ACC it turned out to be much harder to recruit elite talent to USC, & by 1976 USC basketball had fallen into mediocrity from which it never really recovered, & in 1980 Frank McGuire was pushed into retirement. Meanwhile, beginning in the late 70s Clemson enjoyed a period of sustained football success that lasted until the early 90s, including the 1981 national championship, & has mostly had a strong upper hand vs USC in football ever since. Clemson even leads the series in basketball since USC left the ACC.

I've heard it said (but don't have proof) that USC actually approached the ACC regarding possible readmission around 1977, & that Clemson actually was willing to support their bid, but the other schools told them to get lost & in 1978 the ACC accepted Georgia Tech instead.

In retrospect, the only good thing for USC that came out of leaving the ACC was that in 1990 it was available when the SEC was still seeking a 12th member. Though USC was their 3rd choice after Florida State & Miami both declined, it did turn out to be a good fit geographically & culturally. USC is no doubt happy in the SEC, & the ACC certainly seems happy without USC.

Nerd

He meant turd.

We haven't lost to UNC since 1991 and have won 6 of the last 7.

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We haven't lost to UNC since 1991 and have won 6 of the last 7.

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Wtf does y'alls record vs them since 1991 have to do with y'all running scared from them in 1970?

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with y'all running scared from them in 1970?

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Running scared?

Or, what is shows that SC isn't afraid to take a whooping to stand up for what they believe in. I mean they wander the doldrums of conference independence for 20 years just to give the ACC basketball schools the finger.