Started By
Message

re: P5 divisions Arkansas would have the #1 recruiting class in

Posted on 12/20/18 at 2:51 pm to
Posted by CoastTrashTiger
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2015
1966 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

you would have the 3rd or 4th ranked class every year in the big 12 but you are stuck in the sec west


I would not say it like that, Arky is not "stuck". Oklahoma is truly stuck right now in the Big 12, Clemson is stuck in the ACC and for the forseeable future, but Arky is glad just like every SEC school to be a part of now what is the best conference for athletics easily in the nation.
Posted by Arksulli
Fayetteville
Member since Aug 2014
25171 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

If I was Chad Morris I would try and run an Air Raid/West Coast hybrid.


We are a spread option/spread/air raid state. That is what we turn out right now. Arkansas high school teams don't run a lot of pro set.

Does that mean we can't run for good yardage? No, as you say a balanced spread attack can be very effective.

We have to have a decent QB for this system. I'm not sure Ty Storey is the missing piece of the puzzle. With a decent QB Arkansas is scary at the end of the year next season. Without a decent QB its another horrible year.
Posted by Drewbie
tFlagship
Member since Jun 2012
57691 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:35 pm to
quote:

I would not say it like that, Arky is not "stuck". Oklahoma is truly stuck right now in the Big 12, Clemson is stuck in the ACC and for the forseeable future, but Arky is glad just like every SEC school to be a part of now what is the best conference for athletics easily in the nation.
I agree. As an entire athletic department, Arkansas competes very well within the SEC across the board.
Posted by redeye
Member since Aug 2013
8597 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

Half assing defense might have worked for Petrino, but that was before A&M. 


I enjoyed your detailed analysis, but have no idea what A&M has to do with anything here?
Posted by MSHawg1
Bad-assistan
Member since Jun 2018
5046 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:45 pm to
quote:

Arkansas has the second to last ranked class in the SEC West and #9 in the SEC overall


False. 5th in the conference overall and 4th in the West.

LINK
Posted by MSHawg1
Bad-assistan
Member since Jun 2018
5046 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:48 pm to
quote:

Half assing defense might have worked for Petrino, but that was before A&M. 

Dumbass. Perino beat A&M all 3 times he played them.



I laugh every time I read an A&M fan attempt to educate Arkansas fans about SEC football. We've been in this conference for 30 years. Mind your own business. Attempt to compete. Arkansas won the West in its third year as an SEC team.
Posted by Nguyening
SEMO
Member since Jun 2013
9057 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

quote:
Half assing defense might have worked for Petrino, but that was before A&M. 

Dumbass. Perino beat A&M all 3 times he played them.



I laugh every time I read an A&M fan attempt to educate Arkansas fans about SEC football. We've been in this conference for 30 years. Mind your own business. Attempt to compete. Arkansas won the West in its third year as an SEC team.



He specifically mentioned since A&M joined the SEC. It's not even about the matchups at the front end of that, but more about what it did to the trajectories of the two programs, and more specifically their recruiting.

You won the west in a down year. Period. The winning team went 8-5? The west in 1995 and the west right now are not even remotely apples to apples. Frankly there were only two good teams in the whole conference that year, and 0 in the division.
Posted by MSHawg1
Bad-assistan
Member since Jun 2018
5046 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

more about what it did to the trajectories of the two programs, and more specifically their recruiting.


Y'all have been clinging to this for 40 years and it has never come true. Maybe in 20 years y'all can even the series....maybe
Posted by ArHog
Muss is a coward
Member since Jan 2008
32931 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 5:32 pm to
quote:

but Arky is glad just like every SEC school to be a part of now what is the best conference for athletics easily in the nation.


Thanks to Paw Paw for the vision.


RIP JFB!


ETA: We commin!

Posted by Bengalbio
Tampa, FL
Member since Feb 2017
1415 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 5:40 pm to
SEC should add Clemson, FSU, Oklahoma, and Texas. Winner is crowned national champ. Moving that way.
Posted by TeLeFaWx
Dallas, TX
Member since Aug 2011
29177 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 6:11 pm to
quote:

I enjoyed your detailed analysis, but have no idea what A&M has to do with anything here?


Daddy Aggy owns you that's why.
Posted by TeLeFaWx
Dallas, TX
Member since Aug 2011
29177 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 6:19 pm to
quote:

Dumbass. Perino beat A&M all 3 times he played them.


And Arkansas has lost the last 7.

quote:

I laugh every time I read an A&M fan attempt to educate Arkansas fans about SEC football.


A&M moving to the SEC was a fundamental shift in the region. Sorry that makes you butthurt.

quote:

We've been in this conference for 30 years.


And have never won it.

quote:

Mind your own business.


Someone is triggered.

quote:

Attempt to compete.


We hired a National Championship winning coach that finished second in the division in his first season and just signed a better recruiting class than Arkansas has in its entire history. We are attempting far better than you are.

quote:

Arkansas won the West in its third year as an SEC team.


Congratulations?
Posted by kilo
Member since Oct 2011
27421 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 7:06 pm to
quote:

how tough it is to climb the ladder in the SEC.


Missouri having won the East back to back in its 2nd and 3rd year in the conference after moving from the Big 12 openly chuckles at this notion.

Top 5 finish and a top 15 finish.

Posted by Arkapigdiesel
Arkansas
Member since Jun 2009
13153 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 7:28 pm to
quote:

B1G West
ACC Coastal
PAC12 South

Also, #3 in the entire Big XII and the entire ACC.

Arkansas has the second to last ranked class in the SEC West and #9 in the SEC overall

Yeah, frick the meat grinder SEC.
Posted by TeLeFaWx
Dallas, TX
Member since Aug 2011
29177 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 7:44 pm to
quote:

He already did a nice job splicing those 2 systems together a few times this year - most notably his offensive gameplan against Alabama.


I didn't watch that game but a real West Coast offense uses 3, 5 and 7 step drops. It's pretty complicated and quite different than the air raid "go fast" mentality. It's pretty rarely used in college.

Mike Sherman did it at A&M, and two years his offenses were top 5 in the country without running the hurry up. Meaning he was putting up more yards than OU and Leach's Texas Tech did against the same defenses, but running like 85% of the number of plays.

I think if Morris started with a simplified version of the WCO in 11 personnel as a base template, and ran some of his own offensive concepts off of that, it would be extremely effective and it would help him build a sustainable offensive program. It would mean fundamentally shifting how his QBs operate though, so I'm not sure he could pull it off.
Posted by hawgfaninc
https://youtu.be/torc9P4-k5A
Member since Nov 2011
46322 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 8:50 pm to
quote:

Arkansas is kind of a perfect case study on how to build a program. They aren’t perfectly situated in any area, but are positioned well enough by many.

The SEC West is a dog fight, and Saban kind of makes you forget it’s winnable, but it definitely is. Gus has done it twice during peak Saban, so it’s not impossible. Remember, Beilema lost to Sumlin in OT and to Mullen 51-50, or he would have been 7-1 in conference play in 2015.

Now let’s analyze that for a second. Bielema was in his third season, and had signed 4, 4, and 7 different 4 star recruits in 2013, 2014 and 2015 respectively. This was overwhelmingly in the trenches and TEs. Not a single DB, linebacker or WR was a blue chip. But if a program like A&M is signing double the amount of blue chips as Arkansas, but it's split more evenly among the position groups, this means that Arkansas might have half the blue chips, but it's fortified the talent in certain position groups just as well as a top ten recruiting class. I also think Bielema developed the lines well. Plenty of Arkansas highly recruited offensive lineman started early and developed in to some of the best in the country.

However, it fell apart. Without DBs and linebackers Bielema wasn't going to make it. Should Arkansas recruit a more balanced program? Or should they try and do certain things well to try and "break through"?

Look at Oklahoma State. Their recruiting has fallen off in the recruiting rankings since A&M joined the SEC and their Houston pipeline dried up, but they recruit to a system, and had a 12-1 season in 2011. They had Glenn Spencer for five years and Bill Young for four and ran a 4-3 the entire time. They try and build a stable of QBs to start upper classmen and will let innovative offensive minds do their thing, but recruit to the same stable system on defense.

Look at Gary Patterson's TCU program that finished 13-0 in 2010 and incredibly close to making the CFP in 2014. Gary Patterson focuses on defense in a 4-2-5, and hopes a gimmicky offense can somehow figure it out. While somewhat similar to Oklahoma State in the achieved stability on defense, but it's definitely a defense first mindset. Gary Patterson will definitely use what equity he has as a coach for a defensive player if given the choice.

Both TCU and Oklahoma State seem to be two relatively successful models when there is a talent imbalance that needs to be overcome. It's not perfect, and could always be better, but similar in some ways and different in others. The biggest caveat to this however is that 80% of the Big 12 doesn't recruit in the top 30. It truly is the most talent baren conference.

Now let's look at Washington. Chris Petersen doesn't seem to take shortcuts anywhere and will be a very balanced team. They don't really run a "gimmicky" offense as much as it is incredibly multiple. On defense he's been running a 3-4, but it's also very multiple. Adaptive to the players and skills each season, but within the same philosophy. Stability is derived from adapting, not grooming players to a system.

Now let's look at Mississippi schools. The Dan Mullen and Hugh Freeze versions. Two schools with similar recruiting potential as Arkansas, have the same division challenges, and two different coaches with varying degrees of success. Ole Miss got there through recruiting(cheating) their arse off, but running an offensive system that was different than the standard SEC West offense. Mullen got there through solid defense and developing QBs. However Freeze's success wasn't sustainable or repeatable with such an odd collection of elite talenr, and Mullen couldn't capitalize when his teams were peaking because a bunch of super solid players couldn't provide enough mismatches to win big.

So what's Chad Morris's answer? He's recruiting in the top 20ish, but so did Bielema and Petrino now and then. The first question is, what is the current recruiting landscape, and how much better can it get. Chad Morris will make inroads in to Texas high schools, and recruit better than his predecessors on that fact alone. Let's just say instead of averaging 4-7 blue chip recruits, he averages 6-9. And a decent 6-9 where he gets receivers and rush ends.

Now where does this leave them? Enough to build a balanced and multiple team like Washington under Petersen or Mississippi State under Mullen? Possibly. Enough to have a talented team like Freeze's Ole Miss? Probably not. Enough to build a stable on one side of the ball like TCU? Sure. Or more balanced like Gundy with an offensive focus? Definitely.

Now given that potential, which coach's method discussed, Patterson, Gundy, Mullen, Freeze or Petersen would be the most successful at Arkansas and which is Chad the most capable of?

I say he's least suited to attempt the Petersen/Mullen/Patterson way, especially on defense, but he needs to strive for some stability there as he's not a defensive coach. That's square one. Half assing defense might have worked for Petrino, but that was before A&M. Now with Jimbo and Saban, there needs to be something better that that. I think Chavis would be fine if he was young, as Chad could open up his playbook over time as he recruited to the system, but I think Morris should try and get someone from the NFL or a bigger program that's multiple oriented. The Gundy/Patterson way works in the Big 12 when everyone runs the same kind of offense, but in the SEC West, he needs something better and needs to approach it like Petersen.

From that point, I think he really needs try and find a way to make his offense more balanced, more complex, and less air raidy. Sumlin's air raid failed without Manziel and he tried to switch it to God knows what with Spavital and Christensen and then Mazzone. Mullen say some success with his Tebow/Dak offense, but counting on a mismatch running the ball out of the QB spot and it all falls apart without one. He's probably very capable of coaching a spread option, but I don't think it will be what takes him or Arkansas to the next level.

OU and Lincoln Riley run a very productive style air raid spread, and some would think that Baker Mayfield and the Rose Bowl showed that it works just as well as any offense. However, in the second half that OU offense scored 7 points and were shut out in the 4th. Lincoln's Air Raid running game relies heavily on counters, and really spaced screens in the passing game. Without dominant blocking up front this is really hard to rely on. Once OU's blocking wore down in the second half of the Rose Bowl this was pretty apparent.

If I was Chad Morris I would try and run an Air Raid/West Coast hybrid. 11 personnel (1 TE/1 RB) as the base offense, and recruit to a starting role for players around that set. 11 personnel is where the NFL have really used the air raid and spread concepts well and I think Chad Morris could develop a name for himself if he focuses on it. West Coast offenses and most Air Raids use the same post snap reads for WRs, so it definitely fits in a lot of ways. This would also allow him to have a set recruiting platform that doesn't stick him with 19 receivers, and something that can compliment both his coaching abilities as well as current and future recruiting paradigms.

Posted by Nguyening
SEMO
Member since Jun 2013
9057 posts
Posted on 12/21/18 at 12:56 pm to
At this rate, you'll be lucky to keep it to more than one decade.
Posted by CharlotteSooner
Member since Mar 2016
10911 posts
Posted on 12/21/18 at 2:46 pm to
I remember last year somebody posted a thread about Arky being a turd program because they're in a low pop state and can't recruit and never will be able to do so.

I dissented and said they share a border with TX and LA and can absolutely recruit players there, and should focus their efforts accordingly. Their coaches finally got smart. They're even recruiting NE Oklahoma (Tulsa area). Smart strategy. Look at the results. Good for you Arky.
This post was edited on 12/21/18 at 2:47 pm
Posted by Rzrbackguy
Apalachicola, FL
Member since Jul 2014
2209 posts
Posted on 12/21/18 at 6:32 pm to
quote:

What that means SEC west teams will be beating each other up and will ended up not making the playoff in the near future! Count on it!


Then no SEC team goes since the East will win the SECCG once ever 15 years.
Posted by BornAndRaised_LA
Springfield, VA
Member since Oct 2018
5228 posts
Posted on 12/21/18 at 6:54 pm to
ATM has been a member of the Big 12 or SEC for 21 years. In all that time, they have a grand total of:

1 BIG 12 championship
2 outright B12 South division titles
1 shared B12 South division title

That’s about where Arky is over the same timeframe:
2 outright SECW titles
2 shared SECW titles
Page 1 2
Jump to page
first pageprev pagePage 2 of 2Next pagelast page
refresh

Back to top
logoFollow SECRant for SEC Football News
Follow us on Twitter and Facebook to get the latest updates on SEC Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitter