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tylerdurden24
Georgia Fan
Member since Sep 2009
39184 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
Draft eligibility is a completely separate issue that involves groups much bigger and much more politically protected than the NCAA. I think MLB has the best model of any league in that they allow players to test the waters with an agent and return to school if they want to. NBA has the worst. NFL is somewhere just above the NBA


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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
34098 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
I hear you. Personally, I'm a big fan of snakes, I just leave them alone and let them do their job - pretty much like I do all other creatures I encounter in the wild (that I'm not trying to harvest for food).

But I always figured they removed the venom glands or fangs before handling them in church.


tylerdurden24
Georgia Fan
Member since Sep 2009
39184 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

The difference is, as non monetary compensation it can not be divided as compensation to those making claims (agents, lawyers, boosters, girlfriends, and assorted financial leeches).


Which I guess is a distinction that can be noted but I’m also not in the camp of telling an 18 year old legal adult what they can or cannot do with their money. All the risks you just laid out are still just as present for a 23 year old college graduate.

If it’s such a concern, universities can offer financial literacy education to students (many schools already do this for student-athletes anyway).


tylerdurden24
Georgia Fan
Member since Sep 2009
39184 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

It'll just help the schools that have alumni lined up to pay these kids.Its obviously not the intent but that's whats gonna happen.

That’s the assumption, sure, but nobody knows that’s what will actually happen if/when this becomes reality. And when if it does, new rules will be devised and the sport will grow into it.

Things have to progress at this point. Fear of how some might abuse the changes can’t be allowed to outweigh the rights and potential benefits of those rights for hundreds of thousands of student athletes across three NCAA divisions.


BamaGradinTn
Alabama Fan
Murfreesboro
Member since Dec 2008
16924 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

Does it address delayed compensation? That is any money earned being put into a trust and no distributed until the player leaves school. This has always been a work around for this issue while leaving "amateurism" in place.


If the university is at all involved in compensating a male athlete...delayed or not...and not compensating every female athlete the same amount, it's a no go. Period.


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bamabaum
Alabama Fan
Montgomery, AL
Member since Jul 2014
634 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California


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Cheese Grits
Col. of Charleston Fan
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
37711 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

I guess is a distinction that can be noted but I’m also not in the camp of telling an 18 year old legal adult what they can or cannot do with their money.


Probably because they do not listen at that age. Unlike their peers, most have been coddled and had their ego stroked that they are that farther removed from the realities of adulthood.

quote:

If it’s such a concern, universities can offer financial literacy education to students (many schools already do this for student-athletes anyway).


:kige:

Problem is, by that age they have has so many folks wispering in their ear what they want to hear it is too late without an intervention.


If I was in charge of the NCAA, this would be my basic plan

Free health insurance and free long term disability insurance
Free education for at least 4 and possibly 5 years, no 1 year scholarships for sports
Mandatory finance, communication, and real life 101 classes freshman year
Trust fund (like NFL has for old players) that distributes residual checks after successful graduation

While not a return to true student athletes of my youth, not a short term money grab for remoras either.


RD Dawg
Georgia Fan
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
13336 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

That’s the assumption, sure, but nobody knows that’s what will actually happen if/when this becomes reality. And when if it does, new rules will be devised and the sport will grow into it


I have no idea how you could clarify this.How would you distinguish who would be eligible to make money off their image? It's pretty black and white.And you know any little sliver of a loophole in these rules are ALWAYS exploited by coaches and schools trying to get any advantage they can.
This post was edited on 9/11 at 11:18 am


BamaGradinTn
Alabama Fan
Murfreesboro
Member since Dec 2008
16924 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

Whoever is giving the best package is where they will be playing.


Except that Title IX will prevent the university from having its fingerprints on the "package."

And boosters are officially part of the university program, so it would include them also. Any mention of said package by a coach or a booster...a Tide pride member, for example...would bring Title IX into play.


BamaGradinTn
Alabama Fan
Murfreesboro
Member since Dec 2008
16924 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

If the star player on the team goes and does this, gets an agent, signs a deal, whatever, and then plays, does the team become disqualified and forfeit any games?


Antonio Langham says hi.


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tylerdurden24
Georgia Fan
Member since Sep 2009
39184 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

Probably because they do not listen at that age. Unlike their peers, most have been coddled and had their ego stroked that they are that farther removed from the realities of adulthood.

That’s a pretty harsh sweeping generalization. I’ve known plenty of D1 athletes in my life who were more responsible than their non athlete peers precisely because of their sport and the pressures they were accustomed to dealing with. All the more reason you can’t apply restrictions to how people spend their money if they’re 18+; everyone is different and to assume otherwise is stupid and wrong.

quote:

Problem is, by that age they have has so many folks wispering in their ear what they want to hear it is too late without an intervention.

Sounds to me like a good thing for coaches to look for on the recruiting trail. Bring that kind of issue into your program at your own risk.

quote:

Free health insurance and free long term disability insurance

See, now we are trending into different waters. This is when you begin to classify students as employees which opens up an entirely different can of worms (one that will guaranteed be the end of entire programs and athletic departments due to massive costs). The NCAA can’t cover those costs either; it’s just a member organization wherein the individual member schools manage their own houses. They have enough money to staff a headquarters with executives on bloated salaries but nowhere near enough to support hundreds of thousands of budget line items for its membership
This post was edited on 9/11 at 11:32 am


tylerdurden24
Georgia Fan
Member since Sep 2009
39184 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

How would you distinguish who would be eligible to make money off their image?

Well as far as the “who” is concerned, every athlete from DI to DIII would be unimpeded from pursuing third party opportunities. The question becomes what evidence needs to be presented that a legitimate exchange of compensation for services has taken place (I.e Deandre Swift appears on an Athens BMW billboard and commercials and in exchange receives reasonable market value compensation, be it monetary or a paid lease on a car).

Athletic compliance offices can be tasked with monitoring these exchanges (most compliance offices are staffed by JD grads anyway so requesting copies of contracts and keeping record of which players have deals where shouldn’t be insane) and if something is noted as being awry it gets reported.

Is it going to be a perfect system? Absolutely not but then a perfect system has never existed and black markets that operate similar to what I describe above already exist in various fashions with regards to basketball anyway.


Cheese Grits
Col. of Charleston Fan
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
37711 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

That’s a pretty harsh sweeping generalization.


Not to me

Between direct family and indirect friends I can tell some horror stories including a nice kid who put a bullet in his body after college, the pros, and all the cling ons had taken all his money first. Very sweet man (like Coffey in Green Mile) but not prepared for all those who took a bite out of him.

quote:

Bring that kind of issue into your program at your own risk.


Same coaches and boosters who have hostesses for recruits?

Did you miss that whole sh*tsh*w at Louisville? Not like they were the only school doing it either.

quote:

NCAA can’t cover those costs either


I have some friends in the world of insurance regulators who have showed me it is not only possible, but cost effective the bigger the policy. If the NCAA was the group insurer, that is way bigger than any single individual or school.



Research is your friend to arrive at sensible long term solutions instead of caving to mob mentality and short term solutions with great long term faults.

I know it is not sexy or simple, but neither is most long term thinking. These are still kids and universities operating under the In loco parentis would be well advised to be the parent, not the friend of the children in their care.


BamaGradinTn
Alabama Fan
Murfreesboro
Member since Dec 2008
16924 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

The only thing the law does is make it legal in Cali for these players to make themselves ineligible within the NCAA.



I'm certainly not among those who think this is suddenly going to be the beginning of a whole new world.

For how many years has it been legal in all 50 states for a 21-year-old adult to hire a lawyer? That is a legal right that every college athlete has had forever.

That's essentially what an agent is. Yet hiring a lawyer...an agent...causes you to lose your eligibility.

The NCAA could have already been sued over this if there was a case to be won.


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tylerdurden24
Georgia Fan
Member since Sep 2009
39184 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

Between direct family and indirect friends I can tell some horror stories including a nice kid who put a bullet in his body after college, the pros, and all the cling ons had taken all his money first. Very sweet man (like Coffey in Green Mile) but not prepared for all those who took a bite out of him.

Sounds like whether he was 18, 23, or 30 he was always going to be susceptible to the selfish influence and demands of others. That’s not reason enough to limit someone’s money making ability. That’s reason for that individual to be taught by a responsible party how to have tough conversations and make tough decisions about his future if he chooses to continue down a path of potential financial gain. For every horror story that exists there are just as many success stories. Adults have to be allowed to make their own decisions. Period.

quote:

Same coaches and boosters who have hostesses for recruits? Did you miss that whole sh*tsh*w at Louisville? Not like they were the only school doing it either.

Did you miss Pitino and the Louisville AD getting fired because of it? Shitty people exist. So do really good people. Again, you have to let adults make their decisions. This is about giving autonomy to a population of young adults that historically haven’t been allowed any. People are going to try to take advantage of them at 18 same as they would at any other age, same as they would any of us non-athletes. But there will also be people who try to educate and help them. Wouldn’t it be better to let them gain this real world experience in an environment like a university where people are actually paying attention and have the expertise to provide guidance rather than the current reality of sending them into the NFL or NBA or wherever completely unprepared for these realities?

quote:

I have some friends in the world of insurance regulators who have showed me it is not only possible, but cost effective the bigger the policy. If the NCAA was the group insurer, that is way bigger than any single individual or school.

I’ll plead ignorance on this issue. If there’s an avenue whereby students don’t have to be classified as university employees and the NCAA can carry a policy for all athletes under its umbrella that makes fiscal sense, then by all means proceed.
This post was edited on 9/11 at 11:54 am


RD Dawg
Georgia Fan
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
13336 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

The question becomes what evidence needs to be presented that a legitimate exchange of compensation for services has taken place (I.e Deandre Swift appears on an Athens BMW billboard and commercials and in exchange receives reasonable market value compensation, be it monetary or a paid lease on a car).


It's the same question and you really want to be the person in charge who denies who gets paid based on some arbitrary "evidence for a legitimate exchange of compensation"? Wow! The only "evidence" needed is what someone is willing to pay them for any part of their image.No ifs,ands or buts.

You cannot regulate these terms.Its impossible.Ive read the proposed North Carolina law and there's no exceptions made.
This post was edited on 9/11 at 12:05 pm


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RD Dawg
Georgia Fan
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
13336 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

Did you miss that whole sh*tsh*w at Louisville? Not like they were the only school doing it either.


The were hired STRIPPERS and prostitutes not school hostesses.


quote:

If the NCAA was the group insurer, that is way bigger than any single individual or school.


Where exactly is the NCAA gonna get this money? They have nothing to do with CFB TV contracts or the CFB playoffs.(Thank God)

The vast majority of their funds some from the March madness TV contract and they already spend money on various compensation funds for ALL athletes on all divisions.



Cheese Grits
Col. of Charleston Fan
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
37711 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

Adults have to make decisions. Period.


While you are preaching to the choir on this one, I have seen too often it is a Pollyanna view when it comes to kids, especially in the modern age. Just like we need locked long term mental care for a portion of the population, we need a real safety net to protect kids (18 - 22) from themselves.

quote:

Did you miss Pitino and the Louisville AD getting fired because of it?


You missed my point for every one that gets caught, dozens more don't. It is a numbers game and those caught are the tip of the iceberg, not the majority that remains hidden from view underwater.



quote:

NCAA can carry a policy for all athletes under its umbrella that makes fiscal sense, then by all means proceed.


The way it has been explained by regulators, this is exactly what happens.

NCAA has the umbrella policy, not the individual schools, so no employee is created. In addition, insurance loopholes at the state level usually allow exceptions for "associations" the can create polices at greatly reduced costs because the "associations" can act more like non profits. Like an "association" of Realtors can create policies separate from your State Farm or Allsate policies.

This has been discussed for at least a decade or two but gets shouted out by the masses when "pay the players" or "student athletes" forces never get their discussion into the mainstream. The problem is most media talking heads are idiots click baiting a broad public for ratings. Stories like this are boring so they do not get covered and the masses keep driving the discussion over the cliff instead of rational discussions never getting to the cliff.

Think of the great line from "Men in Black"

"A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it"


RockyMtnTigerWDE
Auburn Fan
Co-Captain PosiBarners
Member since Oct 2010
77334 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
Let a leak in the boat linger and soon you will be sunk.


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Cheese Grits
Col. of Charleston Fan
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
37711 posts

re: One thing this board missed about the Law in California
quote:

The were hired STRIPPERS and prostitutes not school hostesses.


At least the strippers were professionals, some hostesses I knew would make time share sales pale in comparison.

quote:

Where exactly is the NCAA gonna get this money?


NCAA gets BILLIONS annually from events and members schools. If they spent less on their executives and perks to their lobbyists I feel that same money could fund most of what we are talking about. NCAA needs more Scottish bankers running the place and fewer overpaid higher-ups sucking the life out of the place.

If the NCAA becomes a captive insurer they open markets to offload to massive reinsurance companies. If you really want a solution best for the conference and college football (or college sports) as a whole you would be better served getting off tRant for a few minutes and calling your state department of insurance to get something done.

The biggest asset the NCAA has is their size in making a captive insurance company for college sports a reality.

It would be nice if fans would help them make it a reality. It is handy that South Carolina (SEC) is a leading US state in captive insurance along with Arizona (PAC) and Utah (PAC). I think Iowa (B12 and B1G) also had strong captive laws about a decade ago but not sure today.



Look, I get this is boring stuff, but the solution exists if you understand it can be done.


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