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NON-TROLL Question: Is the Vol offense a "gimmick" offense?
Posted on 8/29/23 at 6:28 am
Posted on 8/29/23 at 6:28 am
I honestly have no idea. I know the Mike Leach offense was labeled "a gimmick offense" by many over the years, with the often added critique that once the other teams figured it out, it lost it's effectiveness. I've heard the same with regards to Heupel's. Is this true?
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Posted on 8/29/23 at 6:34 am to SemperFiDawg
What makes an offense a "gimmick"?
Posted on 8/29/23 at 6:37 am to SemperFiDawg
Heupel did play for Leach.
Posted on 8/29/23 at 6:38 am to SemperFiDawg
quote:
I honestly have no idea.
Yes, but why does it work? Because the NCAA in their insanity went to a 40-second continuous running clock in 2008. It created these simple offenses that want to run to the LOS before the defense gets set with their call and can match up. Because defenses can't substitute easily fatigue becomes the issue.
So here comes the great tradeoff. A spread offense that can't maintain ball control, but will score points. A defense that will be left out on the field far too long and often, and by the 4th quarter, will be gassed.
Posted on 8/29/23 at 6:57 am to HailToTheChiz
Yes, would love OP to explain this (he can’t). Lol.
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:07 am to Serraneaux
quote:
he can’t). Lol.
Just like you can’t explain how it’s not.
Sit down, fool
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:15 am to SemperFiDawg
quote:
Is the Vol offense a "gimmick" offense?
It is not a pro-style offense by any means, but does that make it a "gimmick" or an adaptation of the game based on rule changes that are favorable to the offense?
The NFL's best offenses are looking less and less pro-style themselves. Plus, his skill players are being recognized and drafted, so it's not like NFL teams are shying away from players developed in his scheme.
I'd say innovative vs. gimmicky. However, it does have some boom or bust qualities based on its effect on its defense if the ball isn't moving on offense.
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:20 am to Demosthenian
quote:GREAT!
Just like you can’t explain how it’s not.
Sit down, fool
We have an expert that has stepped up to explain the "gimmick". Please enlighten us, Sensei.
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:20 am to SemperFiDawg
Yes. Defenses will catch up and he will end up coaching in some mid tier conference in a few years
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:22 am to Serraneaux
"Gimmick" is - a non-conventional, uncommon style of offensive play that relies on snapping the ball before the defense can react or get set. It is chaotic... frenetic. The fact that so few run it is why it is called a "gimmick" offense. He wasn't trying to pick a fight with you, jr.
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:23 am to swinetime
quote:Tell us what they are going to catch up on that will send Heupel to a mid-tier conference?
Yes. Defenses will catch up and he will end up coaching in some mid tier conference in a few years
Perhaps you better worry about what Pittman is doing to avoid returning to a position coach pesition.
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:27 am to Serraneaux
I can tell you one things, Kirby doesn't think too much of tenn at all. No need to, when they can barely score 1 TD
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:45 am to SemperFiDawg
It's kind of a gimmick offense. But it works by spreading the defense out and forcing 1 on 1 situations for the wide recievers which almost always favors the receiver.
One of the common things Tennessee does is extreme 4 wide bunch sets. Putting the wide recievers bunched near the out of bounds line not only forces 1 on 1 matchups, unless the safeties leave the box, it also allows setup for easy "pick" plays on the stranded corners.
If the safeties stay inside the box dropping into zone coverage to protect the middle of the field from the slant, they can throw the ball before the safeties can help cover underneath, or throw the 1 on 1 deep shot when the verticle reciever beats the corner.
If the safeties vacate the box and play outside, especially while in 5 or 6 defensive back package it leaves 1 or 2 linebackers and 3-4 defensive lineman to protect the line of scrimmage. Meaning the offensive line is 5 vs 3/4 with 1 or 2 linebackers 10yds off the line and a roaming safety 20yds off the line. Tennessee hands it off up the middle, the o-line pushes the d-line 3-4 yards up field before the linebackers can crash on the running back which then falls forward 1 or 2 yards. Easy 4-7 yards per rush regardless of who's running the ball. The running play turns into a 10-20yd gain if he breaks the linebackers tackle.
It's an extremely degenerate run-pass-run option. That works so long as 3 things can happen.
1) The Quarterback has a decently strong, but very accurate arm. Also, he needs the ability to quickly read pre-snap and post-snap formations on top of being able to quickly read his progressions.
2) Recievers that are fast enough to consistently beat 1-on-1 situations with corners and strong enough to make contested catches.
3) An offensive line that can handle an unbalanced pass rush long enough for deep 1-on-1s to develop.
The reason why Georgia blew out Tennessee is because of reason #3. Georgia was able to win with its defensive line. Georgia was able to consistently get pressure with 3 and 4 man fronts without the need to bring safety and linebacker blitz. Because of this, Georgia didn't have to respect the run and was able to double cover Tennessee's recievers. This effectively kills their offense because they are forced to make multiple underneath contested throws with zero run support.
One of the common things Tennessee does is extreme 4 wide bunch sets. Putting the wide recievers bunched near the out of bounds line not only forces 1 on 1 matchups, unless the safeties leave the box, it also allows setup for easy "pick" plays on the stranded corners.
If the safeties stay inside the box dropping into zone coverage to protect the middle of the field from the slant, they can throw the ball before the safeties can help cover underneath, or throw the 1 on 1 deep shot when the verticle reciever beats the corner.
If the safeties vacate the box and play outside, especially while in 5 or 6 defensive back package it leaves 1 or 2 linebackers and 3-4 defensive lineman to protect the line of scrimmage. Meaning the offensive line is 5 vs 3/4 with 1 or 2 linebackers 10yds off the line and a roaming safety 20yds off the line. Tennessee hands it off up the middle, the o-line pushes the d-line 3-4 yards up field before the linebackers can crash on the running back which then falls forward 1 or 2 yards. Easy 4-7 yards per rush regardless of who's running the ball. The running play turns into a 10-20yd gain if he breaks the linebackers tackle.
It's an extremely degenerate run-pass-run option. That works so long as 3 things can happen.
1) The Quarterback has a decently strong, but very accurate arm. Also, he needs the ability to quickly read pre-snap and post-snap formations on top of being able to quickly read his progressions.
2) Recievers that are fast enough to consistently beat 1-on-1 situations with corners and strong enough to make contested catches.
3) An offensive line that can handle an unbalanced pass rush long enough for deep 1-on-1s to develop.
The reason why Georgia blew out Tennessee is because of reason #3. Georgia was able to win with its defensive line. Georgia was able to consistently get pressure with 3 and 4 man fronts without the need to bring safety and linebacker blitz. Because of this, Georgia didn't have to respect the run and was able to double cover Tennessee's recievers. This effectively kills their offense because they are forced to make multiple underneath contested throws with zero run support.
This post was edited on 8/29/23 at 9:07 am
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:45 am to SemperFiDawg
It is and it isn't. It was good use of personnel to overwhelm a lot of teams who just couldn't cover all the receivers at once. SC figured it out and fricked them up though and it didn't work at all vs Georgia.
We will see this year, because every coach had time to recruit and scheme for it after facing it.
Did anyone else really load up their secondaries?
People were surprised we had Trevez Johnson and Sidney Williams transfer in when neither had much of a chance to start.
I figure we wanted to be ready for Tennessee and anyone else trying to do this kind of thing against us.
edit: how did SC beat them?
We will see this year, because every coach had time to recruit and scheme for it after facing it.
Did anyone else really load up their secondaries?
People were surprised we had Trevez Johnson and Sidney Williams transfer in when neither had much of a chance to start.
I figure we wanted to be ready for Tennessee and anyone else trying to do this kind of thing against us.
edit: how did SC beat them?
This post was edited on 8/29/23 at 7:46 am
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:46 am to DawgCountry
quote:You really believe that?
I can tell you one things, Kirby doesn't think too much of tenn at all. No need to, when they can barely score 1 TD
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:47 am to Demosthenian
quote:We are still waiting on you to explain.
Demosthenian
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:48 am to Hurricane2020
Good post.
But Tennessee didn't make contested catches in 2022.
That's why they suck against UGA. They dominate opponents with wide open passes beating one on one's. But when the pass is contested, they weren't good enough.
And they score their first TD against UGA with 4 minutes left in the game.
But Tennessee didn't make contested catches in 2022.
That's why they suck against UGA. They dominate opponents with wide open passes beating one on one's. But when the pass is contested, they weren't good enough.
And they score their first TD against UGA with 4 minutes left in the game.
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:51 am to SemperFiDawg
It's not a gimmick offense but it doens't win championships. Too QB reliant and if your Qb is struggling you will lose and lose bad. Spurrier was a QB reliant coach who won one...one national title. He had one season, 1996, where Danny Wuerffel was never off. Never came close again.
See South Carolina vs UT last year and what your QB being off looks like.
Another example, Look at Bama last year. What did Bryce complete against LSU? 48 percent of his balls? They had nothing else in the arsenal and it wasn't like LSU's defense was the 85 Bears. Bryce just sucked that night and if he was off Bama was gonna lose to a lot of teams.
Bryce only threw 21 passes against K State and they blew them out.
See South Carolina vs UT last year and what your QB being off looks like.
Another example, Look at Bama last year. What did Bryce complete against LSU? 48 percent of his balls? They had nothing else in the arsenal and it wasn't like LSU's defense was the 85 Bears. Bryce just sucked that night and if he was off Bama was gonna lose to a lot of teams.
Bryce only threw 21 passes against K State and they blew them out.
This post was edited on 8/29/23 at 7:55 am
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:51 am to Pastor Mike
I love it when people say Heupel is pass happy. Lol.
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