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re: NFL wanting to ban the hip-drop tackle. Will NCAAF follow?
Posted on 10/19/23 at 10:26 am to scrooster
Posted on 10/19/23 at 10:26 am to scrooster
quote:
Honestly, having played the game well into my 20s at a high level, the hip drop tackle should habe been banned two decades ago ... especially in the trenches.
Also, I'm of the belief thwt targeting the knees should be banned as well.
I was a 6'3" 220 pound linebacker that ran a 4.7.
These days there are are safeties that big running 4.5s. Human knees are not built to take those shots, especially literally.
It's time to change some things before the game is completely destroyed by catastrophic lower-body injuries.
I don't even know where to start on this. First off, it is football. Injuries happen.
How in the hell would you tackle someone if you take away two different types of tackling? This is beyond stupid. Most the injuries are not even from tackling.
This is so soft it is sad. Either play football and keep tackling or just change it to flag football, and I can pick a different hobby to occupy my life.
I wish I could downvote you more.
1
Posted on 10/19/23 at 10:45 am to Rtowntiger
quote:
I don't even know where to start on this. First off, it is football. Injuries happen.
Well, if you'll go back to the post right before yours above, on the previous page (bottom of 2) ... injuries do happen, I'm well aware.
The problem these days are the evolution of the game has taken it to a point where the human body is reaching its limits. The game itself has always been gladiatorial in nature but, these days, we've reached a point where human bone and tissue cannot sustain the abuse.
I have one or two old NFL friends, Roman Gabriel and Billy Ray Barnes .... they're both crippled. And they were players in the days when OLinemen and DLinemen were only in the 240-250 range and they ran 5.2 40s.
These days getting hit is like getting hit by a VW.
I get it, modern medicine and surgery fixes joints better than ever before ... but why the necessity when the game can still be fast and violent without the hip roll and the crown to the knees tackles?
It's become unnecessary.
Furthermore, we are seeing more and more good young men's careers ended by these type of tackles ... and for what, our enjoyment?
Those two types of tackles should be eliminated from the game just as horse collaring and targeting have been eliminated.
Now, where I do agree there is a problem is in interpretation and intent? Too often we're seeing unavoidable collisions called as penalties, even when the replay shows the obvious lack of intent ... and that is where the leagues are going too far. What they fail to understand, because the rules makers themselves have rarely played the game, is that attempting to pull up, in an effort to avoid the penalty and subsequent suspension ... pulling-up often leads to injuries from friendly fire.
Anyways, that's just mho. Doesn't matter one way or the other to me at my age and stage. It's kind interesting to sit back and read the emotion in some of these replies though.
quote:
Either play football and keep tackling or just change it to flag football, and I can pick a different hobby to occupy my life.
Annnnnnd .... you illustrate my point. It's a hobby for you, not a profession or career.
There are these two movies that touched on this psychopathology back in the 70s ... North Dallas Forty and Rollerball. Keeping the crowds, the hobbyists if you will, the so-called fans ... keeping them satiated with their lust for broken bones, torn ligaments and shattered bodies. It was the same way back in the ancient days.
Bottom line is, the athletes will still take plenty of beatings without those tackles allowed. The strategy of the game will remain the same and I contend may even improve with the finer, more gifted, athletes allowed to compete and have longer and healthier careers.
Again, just mho.
I'll not waste my time or effort downvoting your opinion ... it just doesn't matter to me but thanks for sharing.
This post was edited on 10/19/23 at 10:53 am
Posted on 10/19/23 at 10:48 am to pioneerbasketball
With the size and speed of today's players, it's impossible to eliminate injuries without completely destroying the present-day game.
Players are now making HUGE money for risking their physical well-being. Playing is a choice!
Players are now making HUGE money for risking their physical well-being. Playing is a choice!
Posted on 10/19/23 at 11:00 am to MetryMauler
quote:
quote:
Honestly, having played the game well into my 20s at a high level,
quote:Well if he was in his late 20's ... then he's obviously Bo Nix
You either played in the NFL or you are Stetson Bennett.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 11:30 am to scrooster
Do you regret it?
Do you wish you played soccer instead?
Do you wish you played soccer instead?
Posted on 10/19/23 at 11:48 am to AUTubaHerd
quote:
There’s no playmaking difference between taking out some of the guy’s brain cells and just getting in his way to allow your runner to go past.
Maybe not on that play, but I guarantee you it can change the tone of the game.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 11:53 am to deltaland
quote:
These are grown men who chose to play an incredibly fun sport for millions of dollars that carried a risk of injury. They are not babies that need to be cuddled.
Right? Most tradesmen and people in the plants are at a greater risk of fatality or serious bodily harm than these players and don't get paid a fraction of what they get
Posted on 10/19/23 at 12:00 pm to pioneerbasketball
NFL Wants to Ban Tackling
FIFY
FIFY
Posted on 10/19/23 at 12:28 pm to meansonny
quote:
Do you regret it?
Do you wish you played soccer instead?
Soccer was sacrilege to most American men back then. Plus I didn't have the lateral footwork.
I regret the injuries, the pins in my ankle, hip and neck, the knee surgeries, the deformed fingers, the difficulty getting out of bed and walking some mornings. (Some of mine was from jumping out of planes with rucksacks but still.) I don't see how the guys who played major college ball or in the NFL are walking sometimes. George Rogers is a friend .... he's a cripple. I met Earl Campbell one time ... he was a cripple. I see Roman having to use a cane to get around for the past decade or so. Those guys ... they didn't make 1/100th of the money being made now and the NFL barely covers their medical expenses.
I don't regret playing the game but I regret, sometimes, the pain. I'm not able to do things with the grandkids that I wish I could. I did not encourage my Son to play the game ... he earned a partial ride as a golfer.
The game needs to protect its gladiators a little more these days, that's all I'm trying-to convey. Most people cannot comprehend the level of violence that goes-on, up close and personal, on an American football field (gladiator arena) among grown men in their peak alpha years.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 12:41 pm to scrooster
Right there with you man. I played 5A ball, saw some gnarley injuries, but as you say its even more intense now with these guys today as we've pushed the human body past its limit.
Maybe I'm getting soft now that I have a son and also see how young these players are that are getting maimed weekly, but its turning me off of the game.
Id like to see real turf only and restricted tackling, with some concessions to help defenses make up for the limitations, something like increased yardage needed for a 1st down.
Maybe I'm getting soft now that I have a son and also see how young these players are that are getting maimed weekly, but its turning me off of the game.
Id like to see real turf only and restricted tackling, with some concessions to help defenses make up for the limitations, something like increased yardage needed for a 1st down.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 1:31 pm to scrooster
I didn't get beat up as long as you did.
But after an ACL tear, I made the decision to walk away from the team.
It is a free country. You can say whatever you want to say. But...
"I don't regret playing. I regret the pain" is kind of a bullshite response in my opinion.
Either you'd do it again or you wouldn't.
The game is rough.
Injuries are part of the game.
The only injuries that should be concerning are head/knock.
Knees. Collarbones. Shoulders. It is the price of admission between the lines.
But after an ACL tear, I made the decision to walk away from the team.
It is a free country. You can say whatever you want to say. But...
"I don't regret playing. I regret the pain" is kind of a bullshite response in my opinion.
Either you'd do it again or you wouldn't.
The game is rough.
Injuries are part of the game.
The only injuries that should be concerning are head/knock.
Knees. Collarbones. Shoulders. It is the price of admission between the lines.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 1:56 pm to scrooster
quote:
played military ball
How old are you? I didn't know Army units had fielded actual football teams since the Korean War.
Was it a local semi-pro team?
Posted on 10/19/23 at 2:54 pm to scrooster
quote:
I was a 6'3" 220 pound linebacker that ran a 4.7.
bullshite
Posted on 10/19/23 at 3:42 pm to pioneerbasketball
Just going to turn into another ref making a judgement call in real time that on review was not a penalty. Just like PI or Roughing the Passer or Targeting, and its going to cost someone a game. And then no repercussion for the Official. Targeting is now reviewable. There are nuances to the Hip-Drop Tackle like actually landing on the legs of the offensive player, that are hard to determine based on the angle of the referee. Are the going to call a player coming from the side and wraps up, doesn't necessarily pull down but still lands on the legs of the defender?
Posted on 10/19/23 at 3:44 pm to Che Boludo
quote:
How old are you? I didn't know Army units had fielded actual football teams since the Korean War.
Was it a local semi-pro team?
No ... all the big army posts, and some airforce and marine stations, fielded teams in the 70s and even early 80s.
It was fairly common. We played 8-10 game schedules .... played a lot of small colleges and predominantly black schools. We had a lot of former college ballplayers on the rosters. A lot of walk on types, a lot of guys who actually completed their four years of eligibility but wanted to keep on playing so they went the OCS route and played or they just joined and played .... because they could play for thr military and not lose eligibility and then when their four year hitch was up they could walk on somewhere and finish college on the G.I. Bill or VEAP. College coaches loved having them/us.
I was fortunate enough to get picked up by Milano while playing in Italy ... it was a lot of fun for a couple of seasons. Our seasons ran counter to the seasons over here. We were spring summer seasons, not fall.
People would be surprised at how many Italians, Aussies, Germans and Brits could play good American football that had come-up through their club leagues ... which were always coached by Americans, some well known former coaches. Some of them were good enough to make it up to our league. I was very fortunate to get to play for Armani's team ... there were benefits playing in Milano for Mr Armani. We had a helluva following in Milano plus I was good friends with another Gamecock who played basketball for their Milano team there at the time .... life was good. Young and happy, living abroad, still playing ball. We didn't make a lot of money, we only got paid during the season but we lived in nice apartments where he housed some of his girls and living in Milano at the time was a lot of fun at that age. He got us good jobs in the off season, it was a good life for a couple of years. I made some good lifelong friends along the way.
Wish I could post some pictures.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 4:11 pm to scrooster
quote:
The problem these days are the evolution of the game has taken it to a point where the human body is reaching its limits. The game itself has always been gladiatorial in nature but, these days, we've reached a point where human bone and tissue cannot sustain the abuse.
There is no factual evidence to support this. Most of the injuries we see today that are serious are non-contact or freak injuries.
quote:
I get it; modern medicine and surgery fixes joints better than ever before ... but why the necessity when the game can still be fast and violent without the hip roll and the crown to the knees tackles?
So take away hip roll, knee tackling, and nothing above the shoulders......so how are you supposed to tackle anyone, especially if you are a DB? It is not possible, especially in real-time. Like what other way do you tackle, I am confused.
quote:
Furthermore, we are seeing more and more good young men's careers ended by these type of tackles ... and for what, our enjoyment?
No. We are not. Also, no I don't enjoy players getting hurt, but trying to take out tackling out of the game has nothing to do with the players to the NFL. They overreact to some stars getting hurt this year and ratings going down.
quote:
Annnnnnd .... you illustrate my point. It's a hobby for you, not a profession or career.
This is an Evan Neal-type take. I played plenty of football in my life. The blessing these player receive in their life to even play football which is mostly inherited to genetics at that level, is substantial. Injuries happen. Sometimes they cost you a year, that sucks, but it happens. They are still millionaires. If a player doesn't want to get hurt they can quit and join the real world where they don't get to play a game for career. Work 8-5 every day for next 45 years, have to save up for retirement, and raise a family in this messed-up economy, save up for tickets to go watch your favorite football team because you are just a "fan". It's a choice, but even more so a blessing to even have that choice.
Changing the rules and laws due to the lowest common denominator is not a good practice in any part of life in my opinion.
Lastly, I get your concern about lifelong chronic pain from injuries, but those cases are subsiding rapidly due to development in equipment, but what you are advocating for isn't changing a rule, it's changing the game to the point where you might as well call it flag football.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 4:14 pm to meansonny
quote:
Either you'd do it again or you wouldn't.
I don't think I would. I've never really thought about it until now but now, given what I know now, I don't think I would. It was strictly gladiatorial to fill a need for violence that I had back then. I was athletically gifted but not very talented, just very intense. Football was an outlet just as being a paratrooper was during those years ... it was all legal violence and still I got into trouble for violence.
If only I knew then what I know now and had used my mind earlier and not chased so much tail and fame ... but I never once imagined living this long. It never once occurred to me that I'd live past the age of 40.
So to answer your question Sonny ... no, I wouldn't do it again. I'd still do the years at Bragg and in Vicenza where I made brothers for life and really tested myself but ... I'd skip all the years playing football from the time I was 8 yrs old until the neck injury and leaving Europe.
My second wife, much younger than I who I am married to know, the mother of my Son ... twenty something years ago I was switching from a normal GP to an Internist because I was getting older and all. The NP was reviewing my records that had been transfered to the practice and she was shocked ... she asked me if I had been in a horrific car crash or something? My sweet wife was sitting there with me and she started crying .... she really didn't understand until the nurse started showing her the xrays.
And where did it get me? I was financially successful not because of the years I played football. I have the same friends and family one way or the other ... with or without football. It's different for everyone and it's a character building game and I was raised to love the game and met all kinds of well known football people in my youth but ... where has any of it gotten me?
I get called a bullshitter on a message board and, that's okay. Enough of the guys around here know me irl, have visited me back when we had the Cockaboose all those years as my guests .... but I still could have done everything and would be in less physical pain these days without football. And all the old guys my age are in similar or worse pain ... on all sorts of pills and painkillers. We all drink too much. Some, most I suspect, would say they wouldn't trade the glory they experienced for anything in the world. Many others though, really great players I know ... they've walked away from the game entirely. Some of them are bitter and miserable. They die young, in pain. Guys with way worse injuries than mine.
Some are wasting away in homes, little apartments, in wheel chairs and on canes .... in their late 60s and early 70s.
Once I get the other knee replaced and the one ankle replaced it may change my current state of mind, I dunno. Some of the guys tell me it's better, others say it's worse. Who knows.
I know I started drinking too early today and have typed too much. I'm about to go walk my dogs. Thank goodness for this cooler weather finally.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 4:37 pm to scrooster
I just looked that up.
Did you play with Patrick "Uncle Fester" Knowles, DT Eugene "HUGE" Watson, or NG Steve Kempenich
Damn though, I was in the 509th in the early 2000s. They left Italy in the early 80s
Did you play with Patrick "Uncle Fester" Knowles, DT Eugene "HUGE" Watson, or NG Steve Kempenich
Damn though, I was in the 509th in the early 2000s. They left Italy in the early 80s
This post was edited on 10/19/23 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 10/19/23 at 4:44 pm to scrooster
quote:
started drinking too early today and have typed too much. I'm about to go walk my dogs
It's all good. Be careful out there Trooper
Posted on 10/19/23 at 5:47 pm to Che Boludo
quote:
I just looked that up.
Did you play with Patrick "Uncle Fester" Knowles, DT Eugene "HUGE" Watson, or NG Steve Kempenich
Damn though, I was in the 509th in the early 2000s. They left Italy in the early 80s
Pat's brother played for UCLA alongside Ken Norton, Jr's Son.
I still talk to Eugene some ... he married a smoke show Nubian princess. Kemp was smallish for a NT but he was one agressive sunuvagun, That was a good team.
So you were there under Nuke'm Needham? Nuke'm treated us like gods .... he loved his football teams. He's still alive, I just talked to him recently when General Lindsay passed a few months ago. We had a RB, from Georgia .... white guy, Ike, fastest white guy I ever played with anywhere. He played for Milano as well.
We had guys from 18-32 years of age playing ... incredible athletes.
Yep, nickle oh nasty.
Pat was a helluvan athlete and fellow LB. I remember one time before a game I was so banged-up and having to get injections in hands and knees and fingers ... and Pat said it was time for me to start thinking about giving it up. I'm quite a bit older than Pat ... had I stopped then and not played that game in Naples I wouldn't have fractured the vertebrae. I remember laying there thinking I was paralyzed and Pat was the first one that got to me, I had an interception a few plays before that with a forty+ yard return that put us in scoring position ... and next thing I know I'm laying there and everyone is standing over me and finally the feeling starts coming back in my body and I'm able to stand up with the help of the medics and my head feels like it's stuck down between my shoulder blades, Pat sorta laughed a nervous laugh ... but I knew I was hurt. That kid from the Naples team, they carried him off and I heard later it was not good but ... that was grown men colliding at high speed and part of the game. Had the crown rule been in effect back then it would have been different.
I actually didn't know how badly I was hurt until the following Monday when, during light contact drills I went down again, face down, couldn't move ... that's when they sent me to Germany where I had the surgery. I remember looking at the xrays and the surgeon explaining to me how close I had come to having the vertebrae sheered in half .... and that was it. It was reality for me ... xx years young, no more football.
Lol, btw, Eugene is still a monster. We were bigger than a lot of D1 schools back then. Our entire LB Corp was over 6' and 220-230 ish, Pat was 6'1" maybe went 230 and he could run too ... he was better than his younger Brother at UCLA but he didn't have the grades. But Pat's brother and Ken Norton's Son beside him were considered one of the better LB duos in the NCAA that year.
Lol, I'm going to text Pat now and let him know you called him Uncle Fester. That's funny.
Yeah, it was nickle oh nasty then 4/325th then 1/508th then 173rd which they still are now.
The back forty is all apartment buildings now.
Be careful ... someone will say you're full of shite Che Boludo. Btw, #AATW and then some Brother.
Did you happen to know Dave Neely or Miles or Donald Epps? Talk about a helluva a ball player ... Donald Epps, a RB and Strong Safety at '6'1" 190 that ran a legit 4.5 back then ... he could have played for anybody in the country had he had the grades. Instead he retired as a CSM at Bragg ... Pathfinder, one helluva trooper. Last I heard, Neely, who was DE on the same side as Watson, he was a retired ski instructor in Durango CO. Miles was killed in a drive by shooting in Chicago I think it was.
We had a heckuva team that year.
This post was edited on 10/19/23 at 6:03 pm
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