Started By
Message
re: Let's talk about Kentucky football
Posted on 11/7/13 at 8:04 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
Posted on 11/7/13 at 8:04 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
Cheese's whole argument is just a silly oversimplification though. Based on that line of thinking alone, the University of North Texas should be a better program than Nebraska based on available talent pool within a 250 mile radius. South Florida should be a better program than Wisconsin. San Jose State should be a better program than Oregon. Cuz hey, recruits within a 250 mile radius and such.
No, you are taking it to the extreme. Some areas have an advantage, but money plays into the equation as well. North Texas is still going to be well below the food chain of Texas and now Texas A&M (as TAMU can now differentiate their product) and somewhere in between will be the Baylor's and Texas Tech's of the food chain. What I am saying is secondary schools like Mizzou will have depth issues greater than the top schools over a longer period.
Bear Bryant at Kentucky only had 3 great years out of 8. He started bad, did well, and finished bad but folks just remember the 3 years and forget the other 5. If Mizzou was going to be a power, why have they not already asserted their strength so far? 100 years and not a whole lot to show at the highest level. Meanwhile former Big 8 members Nebraska and Oklahoma have racked up the hardware in football.
The only difference between Kentucky football and Missouri football is UK fans accept their lot in life and hope for better days. So far the most vocal Mizzou fans are in denial of their average life and think they are at the next level and can stay there in a static environment. All well and good, and maybe Mizzou even strings together a series of 8 - 10 win seasons but when they are swimming with the big dogs how realistic is it on their ability to sustain it long term?
Football no longer has ties so it is a zero sum game. For every winner there must be a loser. For Mizzou to rise and stay there another program must fall. Just who do you see falling long term to allow the long term rise of Mizzou?
Pretend I am from Missouri and show me?
2
Posted on 11/7/13 at 8:08 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
No, you are taking it to the extreme. Some areas have an advantage, but money plays into the equation as well. North Texas is still going to be well below the food chain of Texas and now Texas A&M (as TAMU can now differentiate their product) and somewhere in between will be the Baylor's and Texas Tech's of the food chain. What I am saying is secondary schools like Mizzou will have depth issues greater than the top schools over a longer period.
Bear Bryant at Kentucky only had 3 great years out of 8. He started bad, did well, and finished bad but folks just remember the 3 years and forget the other 5. If Mizzou was going to be a power, why have they not already asserted their strength so far? 100 years and not a whole lot to show at the highest level. Meanwhile former Big 8 members Nebraska and Oklahoma have racked up the hardware in football.
The only difference between Kentucky football and Missouri football is UK fans accept their lot in life and hope for better days. So far the most vocal Mizzou fans are in denial of their average life and think they are at the next level and can stay there in a static environment. All well and good, and maybe Mizzou even strings together a series of 8 - 10 win seasons but when they are swimming with the big dogs how realistic is it on their ability to sustain it long term?
Football no longer has ties so it is a zero sum game. For every winner there must be a loser. For Mizzou to rise and stay there another program must fall. Just who do you see falling long term to allow the long term rise of Mizzou?
Pretend I am from Missouri and show me?
Blogger gonna blog.
quote:
The only difference between Kentucky football and Missouri football is UK fans accept their lot in life and hope for better days
quote:
For every winner there must be a loser. For Mizzou to rise and stay there another program must fall. Just who do you see falling long term to allow the long term rise of Mizzou?
Mizzou has only had one bad season in the past 8 seasons. No one needs to fall for them to remain risen.
Posted on 11/7/13 at 8:30 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
Mizzou has only had one bad season in the past 8 seasons. No one needs to fall for them to remain risen.
That right there is clear evidence of the failure to communicate. You equate above the average as being something where I equate winning at the top as the real accomplishment.
This is the SEC not the Big 12
Who cares about 1 bad season?
Who cares if you won your division?
Who cares if you won your conference?
Mizzou is now in a conference where none of that sh*t matters. We eat, sleep, and sh*t about National Championships. The rest of it is just passing time until the next team wins next year.
Sure Alabama football, Kentucky basketball, and LSU baseball are the extremes of the conference but pretty much everybody else in the conference wins at something. If Mizzou can keep it up and win the NCAA Volleyball Championship I will be the first to start a thread saying congratulations, but it has not happened yet.
Posted on 11/7/13 at 10:06 pm to MULive
So Missouri fans think beating Georgia and Florida this season disprove the 'myth' of the annual recruiting advantage of Georgia and Florida in the east?
Good grief.
Good grief.
Posted on 11/8/13 at 2:49 pm to MULive
quote:
Missouri ranks 18th in terms of population in the US. KY is 26th. Florida and Georgia are 4th and 9th respectively. Florida and Georgia have several D-1 schools for players to choose from. Missouri has one.
It is a mix of quantity and quality. here is a cut and paste from another thread :
#3 Per capita FBS recruits by state (2008-2013) LINK
01 : LA : 1.83 : x2.44 : Louisiana State (SEC) / Tulane & La Tech (CUSA) / LA - Lafayette & LA - Monroe (Sun Belt)
02 : AL : 1.75 : x2.33 : Alabama & Auburn (SEC) / UAB (CUSA) / Troy & South Alabama (Sun Belt)
03 : FL : 1.69 : x2.25 : Florida (SEC) / Florida State & Miami (ACC) / UCF & USF (AAC) / FAU & FIU (CUSA)
04 : GA : 1.62 : x2.16 : Georgia (SEC) / Georgia Tech (ACC) / Georgia State (Sun Belt)
05 : HI : 1.54 : x2.05 : Hawaii (MWC)
06 : DC : 1.43 : x1.90 : NONE
07 : MS : 1.42 : x1.89 : Mississippi & Mississippi State (SEC) / Southern Mississippi (CUSA)
08 : TX : 1.41 : x1.88 : BU, UT, TCU & TT (B12) / A&M (SEC) / UH & SMU (AAC) / RU, NT, UTSA & UTEP (CUSA) / TSU (Sun Belt)
09 : OH : 1.31 : x1.75 : Ohio State (B1G) / Cincinnati (AAC) / Akron, BGSU, Kent State, Miami, Ohio, and Toledo (MAC)
10 : OK : 0.99 : x1.32 : Oklahoma & Oklahoma State (B12) / Tulsa (CUSA)
11 : UT : 0.90 : x1.21 : Utah (PAC) / BYU (IND) / Utah State (MWC)
12 : SC : 0.82 : x1.09 : South Carolina (SEC) / Clemson (ACC)
13 : AR : 0.78 : x1.03 : Arkansas (SEC) / Arkansas State (Sun Belt)
00 : US : 0.75 : ******** AVERAGE FOR USA ******** AVERAGE FOR USA ******** AVERAGE FOR USA ********
14 : MD : 0.69 : x0.92 : Maryland (B1G) / Navy (IND)
15 : TN : 0.66 : x0.88 : Tennessee & Vanderbilt (SEC) / Memphis (AAC) / Middle Tennessee (CUSA)
16 : VA : 0.65 : x0.86 : Virginia & Virginia Tech (ACC) / Old Dominion (IND)
17 : CA : 0.63 : x0.84 : Cal, So Cal, UCLA & Stanford (PAC) / Fresno St, San Diego St & San Jose St (MWC)
18 : NC : 0.62 : x0.83 : North Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest & Duke (ACC) / East Carolina (CUSA)
19 : MI : 0.61 : x0.81 : Michigan & Michigan State (B1G) / Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan & Western Michigan (MAC)
20 : IN : 0.56 : x0.75 : Indiana & Purdue (B1G) / Notre Dame (IND) / Ball State (MAC)
21 : KS : 0.55 : 0.74x : Kansas & Kansas State (B12)
22 : NJ : 0.53 : 0.71x : Rutgers (B1G)
23 : PA : 0.53 : x0.71 : Penn State (B1G) / Pittsburgh (ACC) / Temple (AAC)
24 : DE : 0.52 : x0.69 : NONE
25 : AZ : 0.51 : x0.69 : Arizona & Arizona State (PAC)
26 : NV : 0.50 : x0.66 : UNLV & Nevada (MWC)
27 : IL : 0.49 : x0.65 : Illinois & Northwestern (B1G) / Northern Illinois (MAC)
28 : CO : 0.47 : x0.62 : Colorado (PAC) / Colorado State & Air Force (MWC)
29 : ID : 0.41 : x0.55 : Boise State (MWC) / Idaho (IND)
30 : MO : 0.40 : x0.53 : Missouri (SEC)
31 : KY : 0.38 : x0.51 : Kentucky (SEC) / Louisville (ACC) / Western Kentucky (Sun Belt)
40 : WV : 0.18 : x0.24 : West Virginia (B12) / Marshall (CUSA) <-> listed for proximity to recruit Pittsburgh
For whatever reason Missouri does not produce football players in bulk at the high school level.
Posted on 11/8/13 at 3:20 pm to MULive
quote:
It is just a matter of numbers. Missouri could be very, very competitive if they closed the borders and hauled in a large percentage of the 3-5 star athletes.
Rivals shows the state of Missouri as having 20 prospects ranked 3 stars or above and 4 4 star prospects.
Florida, by comparison, has approximately 180 prospects ranked 3 stars or above, and 46 four star recruits.
Georgia has 41 four star recruits and 97 prospects ranked 3 stars or above.
But yeah, the Georgia/Florida recruiting advantage myth is certainly busted.
Posted on 11/8/13 at 4:08 pm to MULive
quote:
Missouri doesn't have to produce the same amount of talent to compete. Just keep what they have in the state. The ones we have lost consistently have been all American players.
Further proving my point. Imagine Paul Hornug playing for UK instead of Notre Dame or Shawn Alexander playing at UK instead of Alabama. If a kid wants to play on Sunday and he has offers from Alabama and Missouri the probability is higher he will be wearing Crimson than Black. If a Missouri kid is choosing between Indiana and Mizzou then I can see Mizzou having the edge, but how many MNC's do MU and IU have combined?
Posted on 11/8/13 at 4:21 pm to MULive
quote:
Have you heard of DGB?
You are aware 1 only means 100% if the pool is 1.
If you have 2 and you only get 1 then you are now at 50%.
Posted on 11/8/13 at 4:50 pm to MULive
quote:
Rivals shows the state of Missouri as having 20 prospects ranked 3 stars or above and 4 4 star prospects.
Florida, by comparison, has approximately 180 prospects ranked 3 stars or above, and 46 four star recruits.
Georgia has 41 four star recruits and 97 prospects ranked 3 stars or above.
quote:
Have you heard of Evan Boehm?
If the state of MO produces 20 prospects with 3 or more stars, what percentage stay in state? Of the ones that leave, what programs do they leave for? Look you can name any name here and there but how will Mizzou get 100% of the kids in the state to stay in the state when there are bigger and better programs that give them NFL exposure?
Address the numbers them we can talk. Naming a name here and there is skirting the issue and shows no intent to engage in realistic debate.
Posted on 11/8/13 at 5:46 pm to MULive
quote:
We don't have to get 100% of the players to stay in state, we just need to get the best of the players to stay.
Again, you are sidestepping the issue. If a kid from Missouri wants to play in the NFL and he has offers from Alabama and Missouri the probability is high he will choose the team with the better history and better career network. Playing for elite teams out of state means the probability of keeping the best in state in volume is not probable which is what you imply.
For Missouri to get the best of the best in numbers they would have to displace a school like Alabama to do so, do you really see the realistically happening? Sure it could happen but it seems like a hell of a long shot at best.
Posted on 11/8/13 at 8:18 pm to okietiger
1. Terrible okie thread.
2. Trolling Kentucky? Really?
2. Trolling Kentucky? Really?
Posted on 11/8/13 at 8:18 pm to MULive
quote:
Feel free to give us Kentucky's pros. Tim Couch.
Couch retired years ago. Where do you get your data?
Kentucky
PLAYER TEAM POSITION
Randall Cobb Green Bay Packers Wide Receiver
John Conner New York Giants Fullback
Winston Guy Jacksonville Jaguars Safety
Steve Johnson Buffalo Bills Wide Receiver
Tim Masthay Green Bay Packers Punter
Corey Peters Atlanta Falcons Defensive Tackle
Alfonso Smith Arizona Cardinals Running Back
Jacob Tamme Denver Broncos Tight End
Danny Trevathan Denver Broncos Linebacker
Larry Warford Detroit Lions Guard
Garry Williams Carolina Panthers Offensive Tackle
Wesley Woodyard Denver Broncos Linebacker
Posted on 11/8/13 at 8:35 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
Kentucky
PLAYER TEAM POSITION
Randall Cobb Green Bay Packers Wide Receiver
John Conner New York Giants Fullback
Winston Guy Jacksonville Jaguars Safety
Steve Johnson Buffalo Bills Wide Receiver
Tim Masthay Green Bay Packers Punter
Corey Peters Atlanta Falcons Defensive Tackle
Alfonso Smith Arizona Cardinals Running Back
Jacob Tamme Denver Broncos Tight End
Danny Trevathan Denver Broncos Linebacker
Larry Warford Detroit Lions Guard
Garry Williams Carolina Panthers Offensive Tackle
Wesley Woodyard Denver Broncos Linebacker
Add to that:
Chandler Burden Kansas City Chiefs OT
DeQuin Evan Cincinnati Bengals DE
Ricky Lumpkin Arizona Cardinals DT
Posted on 11/8/13 at 10:21 pm to CatFan81
Tomorrow might be a good day to put up the Christmas tree Mizzou fans
Posted on 11/9/13 at 6:11 am to MULive
quote:
I don't know a single Missouri kid that grows up wanting to wear Gamecock Crimson. Not one. In fact, I don't know one that grows up wanting to wear Crimson, period.
Looking at 4 or 5 stars from rivals since 2002 (teams in BOLD have more MNC's than Mizzou) LINK :
Names underlined listed Columbia, Missouri as their home city!
2002 - 50% left MO
RB 9 David Richard Committed to Michigan State
RB 20 Mario Whitney Committed to Missouri
2003 - 100% left MO
TE 2 Will Paul Committed to Michigan
RB 21 Anton Campbell Committed to Michigan
2004 - 50% left MO
QB 13 Chase Patton Committed to Missouri
OL 14 Brett Gallimore Committed to Michigan
2005 - 50% left MO
TE 9 Chase Coffman Committed to Missouri
WR 12 D.J. Hord Committed to Notre Dame
DE 19 Tarell Corby Committed to Missouri
WR 22 Chris Brooks Committed to Nebraska
RB 25 A.J. Jimmerson Committed to Michigan State
OL 37 Kurtis Gregory Committed to Missouri
2006 - 100% left MO
QB 15 Josh Freeman Committed to Kansas State
DE 18 Adrian Clayborn Committed to Iowa
2007 - 67% left MO : 2 kids from Columbia went to Georgia!
WLB 11 Michael Keck Committed to Missouri
QB 12 Logan Gray Committed to Georgia
TE 16 Aron White Committed to Georgia
2008 - 40% left MO
QB 7 Blaine Gabbert Committed to Missouri
TE 9 Andrew Jones Committed to Missouri
MLB 13 Will Compton Committed to Nebraska
TE 15 Spencer Ladner Committed to California
WR 33 Wes Kemp Committed to Missouri
2009 - 50% left MO
DT 4 Sheldon Richardson Committed to Missouri
RB 12 Ronnie Wingo Committed to Arkansas
QB 18 Blaine Dalton Committed to Missouri
QB 20 Nathan Scheelhaase Committed to Illinois
2010 - 20% left MO
OT 5 Nick Demien Committed to Missouri
QB 12 Tyler Gabbert Committed to Missouri
DE 13 Kony Ealy Committed to Missouri
WR 16 Marcus Lucas Committed to Missouri
DE 22 Chase Rome Committed to Nebraska
2011 - 100% left MO
DE 32 Dan Tapko Committed to Oklahoma
2012 - 50% left MO
WR 1 Dorial Green-Beckham Committed to Missouri
C 1 Evan Boehm Committed to Missouri
DT 7 Ondre Pipkins Committed to Michigan
MLB 9 Donavin Newsom Committed to Missouri
WR 17 Brandon Sheperd Committed to Oklahoma State
WR 18 Durron Neal Committed to Oklahoma
2013 - 50% left MO
RB 9 Ezekiel Elliott Committed to Ohio State
DT 25 Maliek Collins Committed to Nebraska
RB 32 Chase Abbington Committed to Missouri
QB 33 Trent Hosick Committed to Missouri
42 kids. 22 left MO to play elsewhere (over 50%) and most wanted to play for schools with better football history than Missouri.
ps, Nebraska, Georgia, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Ohio State all have red in their primary color scheme
Posted on 11/9/13 at 6:16 am to MULive
quote:
Other than Randall Cobb I don't recognize a single name....
Do you live under a rock?? Or the Rock M? Most of those name are significant contributors to their teams.
Posted on 11/9/13 at 8:51 am to MULive
quote:
If you want to, I can go through DT or LB position for you too.
Don't bother. Grits is obsessed with Mizzou and all its deficiencies, real or imagined.
This post was edited on 11/9/13 at 8:52 am
Posted on 11/9/13 at 9:47 am to MULive
quote:
Other than Randall Cobb I don't recognize a single name....
If you don't recognize at least Stevie Johnson or Wesley Woodyard (and I'll even say Corey Peters as long as he's been starting on Atlanta's line) then you don't watch much NFL I gather.
Posted on 11/9/13 at 9:47 am to MULive
quote:
Other than Randall Cobb I don't recognize a single name....
Seriously?! Almost all of them are starters. Wesley Woodyard has been the captain of the Broncos defense for three years now. Stevie Johnson is the best receiver on the Bills roster. Corey Peters is one of the only decent players on the Falcons defense. Tim Masthay is one of the best punters in the NFL. Etc, etc, etc...
You must really not know shite about the NFL.
Posted on 11/9/13 at 9:49 am to MULive
quote:
Other than Randall Cobb I don't recognize a single name....
Of course not. You're a Blaine Gabbard fan.
Page 8 of 10
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News