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re: Lance Thompson leaves Bama for the Barn
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:15 am to Irons Puppet
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:15 am to Irons Puppet
quote:
I think they existed when Kirkpatrick and Millner were there, the SEC just hasn't had QBs to exploit it. Look at who Bama has lost to over the last 5 years, mainly to QBs that could throw.
I agree, that definitely contributes. However, the last few years have mostly come down to big plays due to guys just flat out getting beat in 1-on-1 coverage. We have had a few games where our secondary guys clearly didn't adjust quickly enough (Ole Miss in the 2nd half) but the majority of our issues have just been the fact that our scheme puts CB's and safeties on islands and they haven't been good enough to perform. OSU, Auburn, West Virginia this year.
My HOPE is that we just had a 2-3 year period where we missed on evals and had a bunch of guys piss out (Eddie Williams) and that the next few years our elite signees (Humphrey, Brown, the 2 this year) will step in and get things back to some level of normal. However, the issue with the scheme being too difficult for young guys to figure out kind of makes you throw your hands in the air.
1
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:16 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:"Incredibly good"?
His 2009 defense at Tennessee was incredibly good.
Finishing middle of the pack in the SEC is incredibly good?
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:17 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
The secondary also took a drop when they started playing smaller CBs. 2011: Kirkpatrick, 6'3, 192 Menzie, 6'0, 198 Milliner, 6,1, 196 2014: Jones, 5'10, 194 Jackson, 6'0, 188 Sylve, 5'11, 180
Also guys who were either (a) raw or (b) not NFL type players. I mean look at all 3 of those guys
- Jackson came back to soon and just couldn't run with elite WR's
- Cyrus Jones was a receiver figuring out how to play CB in 2013. He was actually a pretty solid player in 2014 after a year of experience.
- Sylve is similar to Cyrus, had to figure out how to play CB and did not/does not have elite CB ball skills.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:17 am to auburnphan23
quote:
Auburn obviously has a much better head coach
He looked like a first timer with those offensive calls in OT against Wisky.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:18 am to Herman Frisco
quote:
A team of 5* with sub par coaching will win but will not be a NC quality team.
Tyler Love called...he said not to put too much stock into a 5 star rating.
quote:
The strength coach needs to look in the mirror too.
Cochran's pretty good, but even he can't develop a 5'10 CB into 6'1.Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:19 am to Irons Puppet
quote:Another interesting angle to view the situation.
I think they existed when Kirkpatrick and Millner were there, the SEC just hasn't had QBs to exploit it. Look at who Bama has lost to over the last 5 years, mainly to QBs that could throw.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:19 am to joeyb147
quote:
"Incredibly good"? Finishing middle of the pack in the SEC is incredibly good?
They had a few stinkers (Ole Miss, Virginia Tech) but for the most part they were a really good defense.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:22 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Also guys who were either (a) raw or (b) not NFL type players. I mean look at all 3 of those guys
- Jackson came back to soon and just couldn't run with elite WR's
- Cyrus Jones was a receiver figuring out how to play CB in 2013. He was actually a pretty solid player in 2014 after a year of experience.
- Sylve is similar to Cyrus, had to figure out how to play CB and did not/does not have elite CB ball skills.
Exactly. All of which serves to prove my basic point...neither Jeremy Pruitt nor Kirby Smart can make chicken salad out of chicken shite. For whatever reasons with this team, Saban was not able to recruit CBs who meet his criteria...at least 6'0. But the 2014 and 2015 classes are stocked with big, athletic DBs.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:23 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Exactly. All of which serves to prove my basic point...neither Jeremy Pruitt nor Kirby Smart can make chicken salad out of chicken shite. For whatever reasons with this team, Saban was not able to recruit CBs who meet his criteria...at least 6'0. But the 2014 and 2015 classes are stocked with big, athletic DBs.
That is my hope.............However, the fact that without elite DB's our secondary just collapses into utter chaos is a bit concerning. I know the scheme is great when it is great, but the fact that when the players aren't all Top 3 round picks the thing collapses.......concerning a bit. Or just is what it is. I'm not sure.
This post was edited on 1/14/15 at 10:24 am
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:29 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
I agree, that definitely contributes. However, the last few years have mostly come down to big plays due to guys just flat out getting beat in 1-on-1 coverage. We have had a few games where our secondary guys clearly didn't adjust quickly enough (Ole Miss in the 2nd half) but the majority of our issues have just been the fact that our scheme puts CB's and safeties on islands and they haven't been good enough to perform. OSU, Auburn, West Virginia this year.
My HOPE is that we just had a 2-3 year period where we missed on evals and had a bunch of guys piss out (Eddie Williams) and that the next few years our elite signees (Humphrey, Brown, the 2 this year) will step in and get things back to some level of normal. However, the issue with the scheme being too difficult for young guys to figure out kind of makes you throw your hands in the air.
Alabama has recruited DBs that were run stoppers. During Saban's career at LSU and Bama, that has been the style of Offense in the SEC. Since the evalution of the Spread (Meyers) to the HUNH (Gus), Bama has not changed their recruiting tactics on that front. Also look at the evalution of the SEC WR. Today they are 6'3" or better and weigh 220+lbs.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:31 am to Irons Puppet
quote:
Alabama has recruited DBs that were run stoppers. During Saban's career at LSU and Bama, that has been the style of Offense in the SEC. Since the evalution of the Spread (Meyers) to the HUNH (Gus), Bama has not changed their recruiting tactics on that front. Also look at the evalution of the SEC WR. Today they are 6'3" or better and weigh 220+lbs.
We have started to make adjustments (though more on the DL and at LB than safety). The last 2 classes have leaner safeties like Deionte Thompson in addition to "star" type guys.
In terms of WR, not much else you can do other than sign big DB's. While we fret about our secondary, we are far from the only ones. It's just getting to the point where it's hard to defend good offenses.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:46 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
We have started to make adjustments (though more on the DL and at LB than safety). The last 2 classes have leaner safeties like Deionte Thompson in addition to "star" type guys.
In terms of WR, not much else you can do other than sign big DB's. While we fret about our secondary, we are far from the only ones. It's just getting to the point where it's hard to defend good offenses.
I judge secondaries by how much separation there is between the DBs and WRs. Most College QBs have a hard time throwing into a small window, those who can have very good Offenses. Too many times WRs are running wide open on Bama's secondary and the size of the DBs has zero effect. Ohio St did a good job at times against both Bama and Oregon.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 10:46 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
That is my hope.............However, the fact that without elite DB's our secondary just collapses into utter chaos is a bit concerning. I know the scheme is great when it is great, but the fact that when the players aren't all Top 3 round picks the thing collapses.......concerning a bit. Or just is what it is. I'm not sure.
Tony Brown, 6'0, 180
Marlon Humphrey, 6'1, 175
Laurence Jones, 6'2, 210
Minkah Fitzpatrick, 6'0, 188
Kendall Sheffield, 5'11, 183
Deionte Thompson, 6'1, 175
Shawn Burgess-Becker, 6'0, 194
Ronnie Harrison, 6'2, 192
Taller and bigger than the last couple of years. A big factor when going against some of the taller, more athletic receivers we've faced. There have been times when we have been in excellent coverage but given up long passes due to being undersized.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 11:31 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
neither Jeremy Pruitt nor Kirby Smart can make chicken salad out of chicken shite. For whatever reasons with this team, Saban was not able to recruit CBs who meet his criteria...at least 6'0.
See, I don't get that, because our best cb, Jones, isn't over 6 feet. He was great this year.
Eddie Jackson is 6 feet tall, and did not have a great year(however he was coming quickly off of a serious injury.)
Posted on 1/14/15 at 11:33 am to Irons Puppet
quote:
Too many times WRs are running wide open on Bama's secondary and the size of the DBs has zero effect. Ohio St did a good job at times against both Bama and Oregon.
Agree, our 2 main issues were deep balls and long plays that allowed guys to drag across the deep middle. Our LB's (DePriest mainly) weren't fast enough to adjust and sometimes our safeties had similar issues (I put a lot more blame on the LB's though).
Ohio State was great at that and Jones made missile throws.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 11:36 am to StopRobot
Guy doesn't seem to stick around very long anywhere. 2nd time he's left Bama
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