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Posted on 9/1/21 at 1:23 pm to lsufball19
You're right about that.
There's too much he said she said for any of us to have a valid opinion on this because none of us really know what went down.
To me, the thing that hasn't been disputed by ANYONE is that the players were told to leave after some sort of altercation and came back with more guys.
At that point, whether they had any legitimate standing to be there before, or to engage in a fight, that all went down the toilet when they came back.
The bottom line is there was alcohol and idiocy involved on both sides and I'm personally not going to excuse one side just because they play sports for the school. I'd be raking any other schools fan base over the coals over something this dumb.
If it was just a fight then I don't think anyone actually cares. If there was a firearm involved, again, that person(s] needs to be removed from the team immediately.
There's too much he said she said for any of us to have a valid opinion on this because none of us really know what went down.
To me, the thing that hasn't been disputed by ANYONE is that the players were told to leave after some sort of altercation and came back with more guys.
At that point, whether they had any legitimate standing to be there before, or to engage in a fight, that all went down the toilet when they came back.
The bottom line is there was alcohol and idiocy involved on both sides and I'm personally not going to excuse one side just because they play sports for the school. I'd be raking any other schools fan base over the coals over something this dumb.
If it was just a fight then I don't think anyone actually cares. If there was a firearm involved, again, that person(s] needs to be removed from the team immediately.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 1:29 pm to UKWildcats
quote:
To me, the thing that hasn't been disputed by ANYONE is that the players were told to leave after some sort of altercation and came back with more guys.
At that point, whether they had any legitimate standing to be there before, or to engage in a fight, that all went down the toilet when they came back.
The bottom line is there was alcohol and idiocy involved on both sides and I'm personally not going to excuse one side just because they play sports for the school. I'd be raking any other schools fan base over the coals over something this dumb.
If it was just a fight then I don't think anyone actually cares. If there was a firearm involved, again, that person(s] needs to be removed from the team immediately.
agreed
Posted on 9/1/21 at 1:35 pm to lsufball19
quote:
There’s just too much hearsay involved in this story for me to think that it happened as the fraternity members told it.
Ease up, already. You’re in an opinion forum, not court.
This post was edited on 9/1/21 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 9/1/21 at 1:39 pm to Kentucker
quote:
There’s just too much hearsay involved in this story for me to think that it happened as the fraternity members told it.
what you think or don't think has nothing to do with how much hearsay is involved. I don't think you know what hearsay is. A witness telling police they saw someone pointing a gun is not hearsay. A witness stating someone told them someone was pointing a gun is hearsay. The reports say a witness told police they saw one of the players pointing a gun during the altercation. That is not hearsay. Whether or not that statement is credible, reliable, or even true is another story for which we don't have enough information to affirm or deny the veracity of the witness(es)' statements. I think what you're looking for is there's too much unknown right now. The players haven't even made any statements for us to know their side for it to be a "he said, she said" situation right now. They've simply pled not guilty.
This post was edited on 9/1/21 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 9/1/21 at 2:05 pm to Kentucker
I don't know if any of this will amount to anything, but those regulations you linked from the University, says that unless specifically authorized, you are not allowed to conceal carry (or open carry for that matter) on any property that is controlled by the University. There are exceptions, but I doubt he has any of these.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 2:12 pm to bigDgator
quote:
I don't know if any of this will amount to anything, but those regulations you linked from the University, says that unless specifically authorized, you are not allowed to conceal carry (or open carry for that matter) on any property that is controlled by the University. There are exceptions, but I doubt he has any of these.
Those are also just university regulations, not state law. The University could expell someone from school for violating those regulations, for instance, but can't criminally charge them.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 2:27 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Those are also just university regulations, not state law. The University could expell someone from school for violating those regulations, for instance, but can't criminally charge them.
I gotcha, well I guess since the University already cleared them that shoots the shite out of my theory.
Carry on gents.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 2:35 pm to UKWildcats
quote:
The bottom line is there was alcohol and idiocy involved on both sides and I'm personally not going to excuse one side just because they play sports for the school. I'd be raking any other schools fan base over the coals over something this dumb.
There's a distinct difference in excusing someone and saying they should be afforded due process.
There's just things that don't add up.
Again, these guys return multiple times and no one busted a camera out to record? We literally watched videos in our school district last week where a kid busted out a gun at lunch and 7 different teenagers recorded it. These players returned multiple times and no one recorded it? They must be a model of human society to not fall victim to such devices, apparently.
Supposedly a girl was choked in front of several people but no charges were brought and we haven't heard a word about it. Which makes it REALLY hard to believe in today's me too age. We've seen men go to jail for a lot less.
Why did it take so long for charges to drop? It's not like Lexington PD hasn't had an issue charging players in the past. They didn't think twice about arresting Mike Hartline for public intoxication just before our bowl game against Pitt. So there's not really a history of them sitting on something like what has been described by the fraternity.
We also know that the student review board has removed Kentucky players before, even when they've had charges dropped in court. Lloyd Tubman was suspended from the University over a sexual assault accusation even when the grand jury chose not to indict. But they choose not to suspend these guys? In an era where University boards have tried to "take a stand" in these kind of cases?
I'm not going to apologize for having a healthy amount of skepticism over how this whole process has gone down and questioning some things when they just don't add up.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 3:24 pm to LouisvilleKat
quote:
@ the downvotes
Have another with your tears.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 3:48 pm to lsufball19
The whole transcript from the student review board just went public. I suggest you hit google or Twitter and go see for yourself. It’s been clear from the beginning that only one member reported the gun. Unless you listen to that idiot from Louisville that opened this can of worms.
I hate that this country has turned into guilty until proven innocent. No homer. I’d stick up for the players at any school if it was the same circumstances. If he did “brandish” a gun then yes he should be gone. But it’s not against the law to carry in Kentucky lawfully.
I hate that this country has turned into guilty until proven innocent. No homer. I’d stick up for the players at any school if it was the same circumstances. If he did “brandish” a gun then yes he should be gone. But it’s not against the law to carry in Kentucky lawfully.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 3:51 pm to lsufball19
quote:At the end of the day, it gets expensive, time consuming and it's a damn distraction for all involved.
quote:
It’s SAE.
according to police reports, it was Alpha Sigma Phi, not Sigma Alpha Epsilon
I just don't see why any Greek organization would choose the attention this brings is beyond me?
Posted on 9/1/21 at 4:21 pm to KYHunter110
quote:
The whole transcript from the student review board just went public. I suggest you hit google or Twitter and go see for yourself.
maybe you should link it because i'm not seeing anything. And those records are always confidential unless one of the parties invovled relased them, which i doubt they did. But I'd be more than happy to review the transcript if you can provide it.
quote:
But it’s not against the law to carry in Kentucky lawfully.
you're right it's not illegal to lawfully carry a gun
. No one is arguing lawfully carrying a gun is illegal either Here's an interesting article I did find, however. Doesn't sound like the same version you're reading
LINK /
This post was edited on 9/1/21 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 9/1/21 at 4:38 pm to KYHunter110
quote:
If he did “brandish” a gun then yes he should be gone.
He gone!
Posted on 9/1/21 at 6:25 pm to lsufball19
FWIW, we really don’t have a brandishing law here (that’s readily enforceable). It’s why Tisdale ended up with the Wanton Endangerment. I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets dropped as judges and juries here aren’t real keen on that kind of charge without significant evidence. They’re just not big fans of firearm restrictions even in these situations.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 6:38 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
They’re just not big fans of firearm restrictions even in these situations.
Assume the allegations are completely true just for the sake of argument. Do you really think judges and juries are ok with folks pointing guns at others when they come to someone else’s property looking for a fight? I’m in a very gun friendly state too (and have plenty of experience in the criminal justice system), and I don’t think anyone is cool with people bringing guns to fights. Guns to protect life and liberty, sure, but not the way this was alleged to have gone down.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 6:40 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:Yeah. By all accounts the frat wanted to just drop it and someone parents got their arse chapped. Who knows what to believe any more about any of this. I agree with you about the student review specifically because of what happened to Lloyd.
There's a distinct difference in excusing someone and saying they should be afforded due process.
There's just things that don't add up.
Again, these guys return multiple times and no one busted a camera out to record? We literally watched videos in our school district last week where a kid busted out a gun at lunch and 7 different teenagers recorded it. These players returned multiple times and no one recorded it? They must be a model of human society to not fall victim to such devices, apparently.
Supposedly a girl was choked in front of several people but no charges were brought and we haven't heard a word about it. Which makes it REALLY hard to believe in today's me too age. We've seen men go to jail for a lot less.
Why did it take so long for charges to drop? It's not like Lexington PD hasn't had an issue charging players in the past. They didn't think twice about arresting Mike Hartline for public intoxication just before our bowl game against Pitt. So there's not really a history of them sitting on something like what has been described by the fraternity.
We also know that the student review board has removed Kentucky players before, even when they've had charges dropped in court. Lloyd Tubman was suspended from the University over a sexual assault accusation even when the grand jury chose not to indict. But they choose not to suspend these guys? In an era where University boards have tried to "take a stand" in these kind of cases?
I'm not going to apologize for having a healthy amount of skepticism over how this whole process has gone down and questioning some things when they just don't add up.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 7:25 pm to UKWildcats
It’s amusing people keep referencing the student review board considering it happened so long ago.
It’s pretty obvious by the timing of the charges this was intended to be kept under wraps, so during that student review board, there were probably no cooperating fraternity members giving an actual account of what happened. If it happened again today, I’m guessing there would be a much different outcome.
It’s pretty obvious by the timing of the charges this was intended to be kept under wraps, so during that student review board, there were probably no cooperating fraternity members giving an actual account of what happened. If it happened again today, I’m guessing there would be a much different outcome.
Posted on 9/1/21 at 8:58 pm to KellerChrystFan
quote:
It’s pretty obvious by the timing of the charges that it’s complete shite
Posted on 9/1/21 at 9:00 pm to KellerChrystFan
But it wasn’t under wraps. The details weren’t released but the websites with a paywall have been alluding to this for months. No details, like I said. But they were reporting that Vito tisdale was in some trouble but they thought everything would be all good by fall camp ish.
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