Started By
Message
re: How does UGA's national championship affect the SEC all time program rankings?
Posted on 3/31/22 at 8:22 pm to cyarrr
Posted on 3/31/22 at 8:22 pm to cyarrr
quote:
AP, Coaches, BCS and CFP are the only titles of which there is a consensus of being legitimate.
So....your opinion is that these are the only ones thta make them legitimate. My opinion is different, so what now?
quote:So, you know that the majority of people that follow college football feels this way, or are you just throwing around the word consensus?
Consensus = generally accepted, thus legitimate.
quote:I do tend to believe that when you look back on things you can get a much clearer picture.
But hey, it’s your prerogative if you choose to believe that a retroactive poll determined by guy named Jeff Sagarin 90 years after the season occurred is legitimate.
quote:Example? Who and which titles?
But objectively the only schools claiming these titles generally can’t lay claim to the others.
I mean, so far you want to claim your opinion represents a consensus. By my count you have one vote and I have one vote. They differ. I guess my opinion is a consensus, too?
This post was edited on 3/31/22 at 8:23 pm
1
Posted on 3/31/22 at 8:24 pm to MetroAtlantaGatorFan
quote:
Just like the CFP.
My point exactly. So, with all of them being based off opinions.....why are today's opinions more relevant than those opinions of 50,60 or 100 years ago?
Posted on 3/31/22 at 9:16 pm to DawgsLife
Not just my opinion, it’s objectively the opinion of the majority.
Are you saying that Jeff Sagarin’s retroactive poll and those alike are equally respected amongst fans, universities, coaching circles and sports journalists as the AP, Coaches and playoff polls?
If so , why are they not currently used as a point of reference when ranking the teams of today.
I don’t recall any media attention given to the Sagarin national champion regarding modern teams.
Maybe UCF, was that a Sagarin award?
Are you saying that Jeff Sagarin’s retroactive poll and those alike are equally respected amongst fans, universities, coaching circles and sports journalists as the AP, Coaches and playoff polls?
If so , why are they not currently used as a point of reference when ranking the teams of today.
I don’t recall any media attention given to the Sagarin national champion regarding modern teams.
Maybe UCF, was that a Sagarin award?
Posted on 3/31/22 at 9:17 pm to cyarrr
quote:
Of course you do
quote:
Jeff Sagarin awards it to the Bulldogs posthumously nearly 80 years later
No idea this was the case but are really trying to tell me earlier polls dominated by northeastern sports writers were more objective than Sagaran?
C'mon
Posted on 3/31/22 at 9:30 pm to RD Dawg
Yeah, a lot of teams not located in the northeast won AP championships prior to and relatively soon after 1942, the year sagarin awarded UGA a retroactive championship. In fact, Texas A&M and TCU were champions in 1938 and 1939.
Posted on 3/31/22 at 11:43 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
My point exactly. So, with all of them being based off opinions.....why are today's opinions more relevant than those opinions of 50,60 or 100 years ago?
Except the CFP and BCS titles were decided on the field in a title game that everyone agreed to play under. To say they're the same as retroactively claiming a "title" 40+ years later based on some dude's computer ranking is ridiculous.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 7:21 am to cyarrr
[quote]In fact, Texas A&M and TCU were champions in 1938 and 1939/quote]
Yeah a grand total of 2 were south of the mason Dixon line and ZERO from the original SEC IN the 1st 15 years of the poll.
BTW you have a really strange obsession with UGA's 1942 season
Yeah a grand total of 2 were south of the mason Dixon line and ZERO from the original SEC IN the 1st 15 years of the poll.
BTW you have a really strange obsession with UGA's 1942 season
Posted on 4/1/22 at 7:38 am to cyarrr
quote:
eah, a lot of teams not located in the northeast won AP championships prior to and relatively soon after 1942, the year sagarin awarded UGA a retroactive championship. In fact, Texas A&M and TCU were champions in 1938 and 1939.
it's funny that you only a few posts above said:
quote:
Consensus = generally accepted, thus legitimate.
while then ignoring that UGA was the concensus national champion that year. Ie, more voting entities awarded it to us than Ohio state, but simply because the AP did you believe it to be more legitimate.
If you weren't aware, UGA was 10-1 at the conclusion of the regular season while OSu was 9-1. We finished our season beating #2 GT while OSU played a ragtag group of flight cadets that threw team together. The AP, biased as they were in those days, said eh just give it to OSu. Not mentioned earlier is that OSU didn't play in a bowl game while UGA would play UCLA in the rose bowl, and win. We finished 11-1 with a great bowl win compared to OSu's 9-1 with no bowl played. IDGAF if the AP didn't award it to us, we were national champs that year.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 7:54 am to MetroAtlantaGatorFan
quote:
Except the CFP and BCS titles were decided on the field in a title game that everyone agreed to play under
Again....before those the teams were played under the system everybody agreed to. So....and the teams playing
in the BCS and playoffs are decided by polls, just like before...based upon opinions. Do you not remember the teams that felt like they would have been better choices but were left out of the title games because the polls deemed them inferior? And polls that are opinions of sportswriters and newspaper reporters?
quote:Ah. But you know what? Georgia was the consensus winner in 1942. More polls that were out back then named Georgia champions than Ohio State. And what if it is computer generated by some dude? The BCS was decided by a computer by putting all the polls together and then a formula, were they not?
To say they're the same as retroactively claiming a "title" 40+ years later based on some dude's computer ranking is ridiculous.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 7:57 am to DawgsLife
Uga claiming 1942 would be no different than Florida claiming 1984
Sagarin and the New York Times both had the Gators at No. 1
Sagarin and the New York Times both had the Gators at No. 1
Posted on 4/1/22 at 8:06 am to cyarrr
quote:
Yeah, a lot of teams not located in the northeast won AP championships prior to and relatively soon after 1942, the year sagarin awarded UGA a retroactive championship. In fact, Texas A&M and TCU were champions in 1938 and 1939.
And yet Georgia was the consensus champions of 1942....you act like only one poll named Georgia and it was retroactive. You act like Georgia claims the championship based upon Sagarin. But Georgia was named champions based upon:
Berryman
Billingsley
Devold
Houlgate
Litkenhous
Poling
Sagarin
Willimason
This made Georgia the Consensus champions. All of the poll selectors were NCAA recognized major selectors. A total of 9 of those NCAA major selectors choice Georgia as the National Champions.....but you don't. So that settles it?
The AP named Ohio State, but the AP made their choice before bowls were played back then, and Ohio State did not play in a bowl game.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 8:06 am to PanhandleSlim
quote:
Uga claiming 1942 would be no different than Florida claiming 1984
Sagarin and the New York Times both had the Gators at No. 1
And yet Florida was not the consensus champions, were they?
ETA
Florida for all intents and purposes was not even in the conversation:
The 1984 NCAA Division I-A football season was topsy-turvy from start to finish. It ended with the BYU Cougars being bestowed their first and only national championship by beating Michigan in the Holiday Bowl. While the Cougars finished with a perfect 13–0 record and were the consensus National Champions, some commentators maintain this title was undeserved citing their weak schedule (none of their conference opponents in the WAC finished with fewer than four losses, and even Michigan finished the season at 6–6 after the bowl loss) and argue that the championship should have gone to the 11–1 Washington Huskies.
This post was edited on 4/1/22 at 8:09 am
Posted on 4/1/22 at 8:35 am to PanhandleSlim
quote:
Uga claiming 1942 would be no different than Florida claiming 1984
Except, the champion in 1984 was undefeated and was named champion by pretty much every selector out there.
In 42 we had the better record, better season, and were named champs by a consensus of polling bodies. Not even close to comparable.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 8:39 am to RD Dawg
quote:
Yeah a grand total of 2 were south of the mason Dixon line and ZERO from the original SEC IN the 1st 15 years of the poll.
And a grand total of three were from the Northeast during the same time period.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 8:44 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
In 42 we had the better record, better season, and were named champs by a consensus of polling bodies. Not even close to comparable.
Georgia was named national champion by NBerryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Houlgate, Litkenhous, Poling, Sagarin, Sagarin (ELO-Chess), and Williamson.
Doesn't get anymore reputable than this group.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 8:47 am to cyarrr
by your own admission,
Consensus = generally accepted, thus legitimate.
Some of those same entitites have given us the title on other years when they were like the only one that did so. In 1927 there was one poll, maybe litkenhous I think, that was the only entity to do it. Guess what? We dont' claim 27 even though there are many schools taht would. That's different than this scenario, when more entities than not crowned us. And again, you can simply look at the black and white facts on paper and see we had the better season. That's not really debatable. 2 more wins, a better win, and a prestigious bowl victory. Both teams had a quality loss.
Consensus = generally accepted, thus legitimate.
Some of those same entitites have given us the title on other years when they were like the only one that did so. In 1927 there was one poll, maybe litkenhous I think, that was the only entity to do it. Guess what? We dont' claim 27 even though there are many schools taht would. That's different than this scenario, when more entities than not crowned us. And again, you can simply look at the black and white facts on paper and see we had the better season. That's not really debatable. 2 more wins, a better win, and a prestigious bowl victory. Both teams had a quality loss.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 8:48 am to cyarrr
quote:
And a grand total of three were from the Northeast during the same time period.
Does a consensus make a title legitimate?
Posted on 4/1/22 at 8:51 am to DawgsLife
quote:
And yet Georgia was the consensus champions of 1942....you act like only one poll named Georgia and it was retroactive. You act like Georgia claims the championship based upon Sagarin. But Georgia was named champions based upon:
Berryman
Billingsley
Devold
Houlgate
Litkenhous
Poling
Sagarin
Willimason
This made Georgia the Consensus champions.
Nope
They are computer generated calculations that did not come into being until over a half of century later. This is why few if any schools actually claim them.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 8:56 am to cyarrr
quote:
Georgia was named national champion by NBerryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Houlgate, Litkenhous, Poling, Sagarin, Sagarin (ELO-Chess), and Williamson.
Doesn't get anymore reputable than this group.
All recognized by the NCAA and formed a consensus.
Major selectors
A variety of selectors have named national champions throughout the years. They generally can be divided into four categories: those determined by mathematical formula, human polls, historical research, and recently, playoffs. The selectors below are listed in the official NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision Records as having been deemed to be "major selectors" for which the criterion is that the poll or selector be "national in scope either through distribution in newspaper, television, radio and/or computer online".[6]:?107–109? The former selectors, deemed instrumental in the sport of college football, and selectors that were included for the calculation of the BCS standing, are listed together.[6]:?112–119?
Math
Major Selectors
Oh look! Every one of those selectors were not only recognized by the NCAA, but were thought of as just as legitimate as any of the others. Just because you don't recognize them does not disqualify them.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 9:00 am to DawgsLife
Georgia was not the consensus
Georgia
Bill Libby
Billingsley Report
Century Football Index
Cliff Morgan
Clyde Berryman
Edward Litkenhous
Harry DeVold
Houlgate System
James Howell
Loren Maxwell
Mel Smith
Montgomery Full Season Championship
Nutshell Sports Football Ratings
Poling System
Sagarin Ratings
Williamson System
Ohio State
1st-N-Goal
Angelo Louisa
Associated Press
Bernie McCarty
Boand System
Bob Kirlin
Bob Royce
College Football Researchers Association
College Football USA
David Wilson
Dunkel System
Earl Jessen
George Trevor
Harry Frye
James Whalen
Jim Koger
National Championship Foundation
Patrick Premo
Obviously the most prestigious of these names is the Associated Press, and they chose the Buckeyes.
A quick count here shows 16 selectors for Georgia to 18 for Ohio State. There were also 5 other selectors that chose either Georgia Pre-Flight Navy (it was 1942), Tulsa or Wisconsin
Georgia
Bill Libby
Billingsley Report
Century Football Index
Cliff Morgan
Clyde Berryman
Edward Litkenhous
Harry DeVold
Houlgate System
James Howell
Loren Maxwell
Mel Smith
Montgomery Full Season Championship
Nutshell Sports Football Ratings
Poling System
Sagarin Ratings
Williamson System
Ohio State
1st-N-Goal
Angelo Louisa
Associated Press
Bernie McCarty
Boand System
Bob Kirlin
Bob Royce
College Football Researchers Association
College Football USA
David Wilson
Dunkel System
Earl Jessen
George Trevor
Harry Frye
James Whalen
Jim Koger
National Championship Foundation
Patrick Premo
Obviously the most prestigious of these names is the Associated Press, and they chose the Buckeyes.
A quick count here shows 16 selectors for Georgia to 18 for Ohio State. There were also 5 other selectors that chose either Georgia Pre-Flight Navy (it was 1942), Tulsa or Wisconsin
Page 5 of 8
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News