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re: Greatest CFB team of all time debate: Single Digit Deficit Wins
Posted on 2/22/21 at 2:40 pm to TideSaint
Posted on 2/22/21 at 2:40 pm to TideSaint
I would not agree they were more costly; but LSU hurt itself several times in that game. Special teams giving up a long punt return touchdown was very costly; Stingley turning his head at the last second and letting Smith run past him for a long TD pass was costly; turning the ball over when we were driving in the 3rd quarter was costly; and Aranda inexplicably playing press coverage at the end and allowing another long touchdown was certainly costly.
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Posted on 2/22/21 at 2:42 pm to TideSaint
When you play more ranked teams, top 10 teams and teams with winning records than those other teams, the likelihood of having close games increases. This would be especially true in a year that the SEC set a record for most drafted players.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 2:43 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:
I would not agree they were more costly
The three LSU mistakes you listed directly gave Alabama 21 points.
None of Alabama's mistakes directly gave LSU any points.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 2:53 pm to SidewalkTiger
Tua's self-inflicted fumble on the opening drive was arguably the single biggest play of the game. It's not like LSU did anything to cause it, which differentiates it from all the other plays mentioned. And to say the turnover by Alabama at the end of the first half didn't directly lead to points is just a tad questionable, if not outright disingenuous. You need to be honest about these things; just like Alabama fans need to be honest that LSU was the better team in 2019. And that this past year was kind of a clusterfrick, to put it mildly.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:03 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:
Tua's self-inflicted fumble on the opening drive was arguably the single biggest play of the game.
It gave LSU the ball at their own 8 yard line. Still had to basically drive the entire length of the field and score.
Burrow's fumble later gave Bama much better field position.
quote:
And to say the turnover by Alabama at the end of the first half didn't directly lead to points is just a tad questionable, if not outright disingenuous.
Well it didnt.
LSU still had to drive and score.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:12 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:I guess I'll agree to disagree. PPG were equal. Some other stats like YPP make 2020 seem better, but 2020 Bama played 2020 teams (like LSU) not 2019.
Not really, 2020 was clearly better than 2019.
2019 LSU 79 plays/559 yds/7.1 YPP
2020 LSU 72 plays/352 yds/4.9 YPP
There is no way to really know, but all the new coaches with no off season to install new schemes + covid/opt out outs to me caused most offenses to be inferior this year.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:17 pm to PurpleandGeauld
quote:
I guess I'll agree to disagree. PPG were equal. Some other stats like YPP make 2020 seem better, but 2020 Bama played 2020 teams (like LSU) not 2019.
Except they weren't equal when you only look at P5 vs P5 stats (as the 2019 team played USM, NMSU and Western Carolina to pad their stats)
2019 Alabama Defense
YPP - 5.08
PPG - 22.2
2020 Alabama Defense
YPP - 5.04
PPG - 19.4
quote:
2020 Bama played 2020 teams (like LSU) not 2019.
2020 Alabama also played 2020 Florida instead of 2019 Duke, 2020 Georgia instead of 2019 South Carolina, 2020 Ole Miss instead of 2019 Ole Miss plus 2020 Ohio State instead of 2019 Michigan. All significantly better offenses - COVID or not.
The offense is the real discussion on 2019 Alabama vs 2020 Alabama, because the skill positions for 2019 Alabama was clearly better from a NFL Draft standpoint (WR and QB), but the offensive line and overall consistency and flow for 2020 Alabama was without question better. The question of course is how much of that is being better and how much is due to having an experienced group in a season where that mattered more than ever. Not sure we'll ever really know.
But the 2020 Alabama defense was absolutely better than 2019 - especially by the 2nd half of the year. 2019 Alabama would never have held 2020 Ohio State to 24 points. 2020 Alabama > 2019 Alabama in basically all disruption categories (TFL, Sacks, etc). 2019 Alabama played with true freshman at basically every position in the Front 7.
This post was edited on 2/22/21 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:24 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
It gave LSU the ball at their own 8 yard line. Still had to basically drive the entire length of the field and score. Burrow's fumble later gave Bama much better field position.
The problem with this is you're equating a QB just dropping the football (and costing his team for sure 3 points, maybe 7) with a QB being stripped of the football by the defensive player. When you cherry pick and paint things in a biased way you undercut the underlying validity of your premise.
This post was edited on 2/22/21 at 3:27 pm
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:26 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
It gave LSU the ball at their own 8 yard line. Still had to basically drive the entire length of the field and score.
It took away 3 points from Alabama is more the point of why it mattered. Even our shitty kickers are generally pretty automatic from 25 yards.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:30 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:
The problem with this is you're equating a QB just dropping the football (and costing his team for sure 3 points, maybe 7) with a QB being stripped of the football by the defensive player. When you cherry pick and paint things in a biased way you undercut the underlying validity of your premise.
So lets say it cost Alabama 3 points.
LSU directly gave up 21 points so I still hold the position that LSU's mistakes were more costly.
3 points still doesn't win the game.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:35 pm to SidewalkTiger
Again you act like Alabama had nothing to do with those 21 points. The punt return was a great individual play by Waddle and blocking by Alabama. To just act like it was only a mistake by LSU is stupid and biased. Stingley turned his head, but Tua still had to complete the pass. Aranda had an inexcusable brain fart, but Smith still had to win at the line of scrimmage and Tua had to get him the ball. Again, looking at it solely through purple and gold lenses just ends up lessening many of your legit points. But clearly you can't see that.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:38 pm to LSUgrad88
I pretty much see it the way that you see it. Those 3 plays were made by amazing athletes and the one that Stingley wasn't looking was just flat out better coaching.
The way that I've described the game in the past is that LSU controlled the game for the most part and Bama made some fantastic individual plays to keep the game close. It's not fair to take those plays away from them IMO.
The way that I've described the game in the past is that LSU controlled the game for the most part and Bama made some fantastic individual plays to keep the game close. It's not fair to take those plays away from them IMO.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:41 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
The way that I've described the game in the past is that LSU controlled the game for the most part and Bama made some fantastic individual plays to keep the game close. It's not fair to take those plays away from them IMO.
Agreed - and I agree with 88 that the Tua play was one of the biggest plays of the game. In a possession game it set the tone by letting LSU both score first and get the ball after halftime. At that point, Alabama was playing catchup the rest of the way. Everybody knew that stops would be far and few between for our defense, so once LSU took the lead the pressure mounted. Then the punter dropped the ball, LSU took advantage of that too, and at that point - with a 14 pt lead and getting the ball to start the 3rd - they were firmly in control.
The interception at the end of the half was just kind of a total back breaker. Outside of LSU self destructing on offense (or Eaux putting the brakes on the offense), Alabama was going to have almost no chance to make up that difference, because our defense couldn't get more than 1 or 2 stops. We honestly got closer than I thought we would, and that was only because of some huge individual plays from guys on defense in the 3rd quarter. But there was no way it was going to last.
Alabama played tight on offense. LSU played like it was on a mission on offense. That was the difference.
This post was edited on 2/22/21 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:42 pm to TigerLunatik
I completely agree. And I do not enjoy being made to take the Alabama side of things in arguments 
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:43 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Even though it's debatable which one of our offenses was better, 2019 or 2020, from a stat standpoint......there is no question which offense was mentally tougher or more on a mission ala LSU 2019.
Our 2020 offense wanted to take your soul. Our 2019 offense (and 2018) were just great players and schemes, but they didn't have that sort of killer instinct. The 2020 group's leaders - Mac, OL, DeVonta, Najee - were killers. The 2018/2019 groups just really weren't. Jeudy and Tua just were't those kind of guys - and Najee and DeVonta really had to grow into those loud leadership roles, and it kind of showed in our big games in 2018 and 2019.
Our 2020 offense wanted to take your soul. Our 2019 offense (and 2018) were just great players and schemes, but they didn't have that sort of killer instinct. The 2020 group's leaders - Mac, OL, DeVonta, Najee - were killers. The 2018/2019 groups just really weren't. Jeudy and Tua just were't those kind of guys - and Najee and DeVonta really had to grow into those loud leadership roles, and it kind of showed in our big games in 2018 and 2019.
This post was edited on 2/22/21 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:45 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Everybody knew that stops would be far and few between for our defense, so once LSU took the lead the pressure mounted.
The thing about that 2019 LSU offense is that it seemed to put pressure on the opposing offense to try to keep up. That on top of Bama not being battle tested to that point in the season is what I believe led to the TOs. LSU had been in several big games before then and I don't think Bama had even played a ranked team yet. If yall did it was a team that was ranked very low if I remember correctly.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:47 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
The thing about that 2019 LSU offense is that it seemed to put pressure on the opposing offense to try to keep up. That on top of Bama not being battle tested to that point in the season is what I believe led to the TOs. LSU had been in several big games before then and I don't think Bama had even played a ranked team yet. If yall did it was a team that was ranked very low if I remember correctly.
Yep - and LSU's offense had a bunch of assasins on it who thrived in that sort of situation, lead by Burrow (and Brady, who was an assasin of a play caller).
And you are right, we hadn't really been tested. And to be honest, everytime we were tested under that group (Tua led) we kind of wilted. The 2017 UGA game is really the only huge game when we were really in trouble where we pushed through, and that was kind of a "what the hell do you have to lose" situation (much like the 2nd half of the LSU game, really). 2018 UGA, 2018 Clemson, 2019 LSU...we just didn't make plays that had to be made. In any of those games (other than 2018 UGA when Jalen came in).
This post was edited on 2/22/21 at 3:49 pm
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:47 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:
Again you act like Alabama had nothing to do with those 21 points. The punt return was a great individual play by Waddle and blocking by Alabama. To just act like it was only a mistake by LSU is stupid and biased.
Rewatch the play. Waddle is clearly headed towards his right and the sideline until he is slung out into the open field to his left by his facemask.
Waddle likely doesn't score on that play without the facemask grab.
quote:
Stingley turned his head, but Tua still had to complete the pass. Aranda had an inexcusable brain fart, but Smith still had to win at the line of scrimmage and Tua had to get him the ball. Again, looking at it solely through purple and gold lenses just ends up lessening many of your legit points. But clearly you can't see that.
Again, I feel that LSU's mistakes were more costly, just my opinion.
I'd have given them back any of their mistakes in exchange for LSU's.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:56 pm to SidewalkTiger
I do agree, crazy as it sounds, Waddle nearly getting his head ripped off probably helped. But to say that TD was solely caused by an LSU mistake is ridiculous.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 3:59 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:
But to say that TD was solely caused by an LSU mistake is ridiculous.
This is equally as true for any of the Bama mistakes, nothing is completely one sided.
Although, the touchdown happened with the facemask, it likely doesn't without it.
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