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re: DSOR: Herschel or Bo?
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:11 pm to beatbammer
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:11 pm to beatbammer
quote:
So the choice is easy if you want the running back who gets more yardage every time he touches the ball and scores more often the more you give him the ball.
I want the one who doesn't have joints made of sunshine, farts, and paper!! And who proved he could make it through three SEC seasons and rack up carry after carry after carry while winning an SECC every year he was on campus.
Fallback U'er kids always got that chip though, gotta prove they're as good.
So run along champ. Sure. Bo was great.
2
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:14 pm to TemperdTiger
quote:
You realize that Bo dislocating his own hip by the pure drive of his own legs was thought to be physically impossible before he did it, right?
You are not seriously bragging that Bo may have been the first person in history stupid enough to dislocate his own hip while running, are you?
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:15 pm to smelvis
Here is the bottom line.....
EVERY single one of you leg humpers would pick Bo, if he went to UGA. EVERY single one of us Auburn fans would pick Herschel, if he went to Auburn. EVERY single one of you are lying to yourself if you say differently!
EVERY single one of you leg humpers would pick Bo, if he went to UGA. EVERY single one of us Auburn fans would pick Herschel, if he went to Auburn. EVERY single one of you are lying to yourself if you say differently!
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:17 pm to smelvis
To argue Bo is better is to say that you know something that the media of their era, former players that had Heisman votes and current media don't know. That is possible, but can you see how the data isn't on your side?
Herschel has 3 times as many top 3 Heisman finishes than Bo Jackson has top 10 Heisman finishes (keep in mind that Bo played 1 more year than Herschel also)
I understand that the Heisman isn't the perfect measure, but it is one of the best tools we have for measuring perceptions of the era.
If anyone can produce a reputable all time college football player ranking that has Bo ranked better than Herschel I'd love to see it. I've looked at quite a few and Herschel is always ranked better.
Herschel has 3 times as many top 3 Heisman finishes than Bo Jackson has top 10 Heisman finishes (keep in mind that Bo played 1 more year than Herschel also)
I understand that the Heisman isn't the perfect measure, but it is one of the best tools we have for measuring perceptions of the era.
If anyone can produce a reputable all time college football player ranking that has Bo ranked better than Herschel I'd love to see it. I've looked at quite a few and Herschel is always ranked better.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:17 pm to MrAUTigers
quote:
Here is the bottom line.....
EVERY single one of you leg humpers would pick Bo, if he went to UGA. EVERY single one of us Auburn fans would pick Herschel, if he went to Auburn. EVERY single one of you are lying to yourself if you say differently
That may be true, but that is not the bottom line.
The bottom line is that sports fans, writers, players, etc., that are NOT fans of Georgia or Auburn would pick Herschel by a large margin.
There is your bottom line.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:18 pm to Dawg in Beaumont
quote:
, but it is one of the best tools we have for measuring perceptions of the era.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:19 pm to Dawg in Beaumont
Statiscal Breakdown Disproves Fallback "What If's" Bo v. Herschel
In case you'd like to read it here.
Ballgame.
In case you'd like to read it here.
quote:
The Bo vs. Herschel debate came up again. Send this to all your Auburn friends and end the debate.
Anyone who's watched SEC football for the past, oh, 50 years knows that when it comes to running backs, there's Herschel Walker and Bo Jackson, and everyone else. So who's the better college running back? Bo? Herschel? There are a few ways you can look at this one.
1. Freshman impact. No contest here. Herschel set the freshman rushing record at 1,616 yards - and he did that in the equivalent of 9 games (he missed the bulk of the Ole Miss game, and a half against both UT and TCU). Bo? 829 yards. Ho hum. Or let me put it this way: Bo rushed for fewer yards as a freshman than Jasper Sanks did as a sophomore. Herschel should have won the Heisman as a freshman. Bo? Bo wasn't diddly as a freshman.Advantage: Herschel, and Bo doesn't really deserve to be mentioned in his company here.
2. Season rushing stats. Let's take a look at their seasons in terms of yards gained per season and put them in order.
1. 1,891 yards. Herschel, 1981.
2. 1,786 yards. Bo, 1985.
3. 1,752 yards. Herschel, 1982.
4. 1,616 yards. Herschel, 1980.
5. 1,213 yards. Bo, 1983.
6. 829 yards. Bo, 1982.
7. 475 yards. Bo, 1984.
Auburn fans will quickly remind you that Bo's 1984 season was shortened by injury. I will remind Auburn fans that Herschel missed a game and a half his freshman year and a game his junior year based on injury. OK, so let's go ahead and play the "what if" game. What if Bo and Herschel hadn't missed any time due to injury? To let you know how I came up with these numbers, I did it like this. Herschel missed 1.5 games in 1980 due to injury. Take 1,616, divide by 9.5, multiply by 11 for the revised total. Here are the "no injuries" numbers:
1. 1,936 yards. Herschel, 1982.
2. 1,891 yards. Herschel, 1981.
3. 1,871 yards. Herschel, 1980.
4. 1,786 yards. Bo, 1985.
5. 1,213 yards. Bo, 1983.
6. 1,045 yards. Bo, 1984.
7. 829 yards. Bo, 1982.
Bo don't know Herschel's yards. Put another way, Herschel's 3 years are 3 of the top 5 rushing totals in SEC history. Bo's second best year doesn't even make the top 20.
Advantage: Herschel, and it's not close.
3. Career rushing stats.
Herschel: 5,259 yards in 3 years
Bo: 4,303 yards in 4 years.
Some Auburn fans will tell you that a healthy Bo Jackson would have outrushed Herschel over 4 years. Fine. Let's play that game, too. I'll even give Bo a 1984 equivalent to his best season, 1985. Don't forget, though, that Herschel had another full year to play when he left. Giving Herschel the equivalent of his best year, you get these numbers:
Herschel: 7,150 yards
Bo: 5,614 yards
Sorry, Aubies. Advantage: Herschel, and again, it's not even close.
4. Durability. To make it through the always-brutal SEC schedule, a running back must have durability. The best home-run running back in the world doesn't do squat from the bench.
Per game: Herschel has two of the top 4 rush attempts in a game. Bo doesn't even make the list.
Per season: Herschel has the top 2 seasons. Bo's best season is at #15.
Career: Herschel had more rushes in 3 years than anyone in SEC history had in 4.
No contest here. Compared to Herschel, Bo was a china doll. Bo took himself out of games. Herschel put himself back in them. Advantage: Herschel, and Bo isn't in the same class.
5. Team impact. Good players get good stats. Great players get great stats. Elite players lift the teams around them. Let's look at the team records and accomplishments.
National championships: In Herschel's 3 years, Georgia won a national championship and played for another. In Bo's 4, Auburn won none and played for none.
SEC championships: Georgia won 3 in Herschel's 3 years. Auburn won 1 in Auburn 's 4.
Winning percentage:
Georgia: .917 (33-3), Auburn: .755 (37-12)
At home: Georgia: 1.000 (19-0), Auburn: .846 (22-4)
Away: Georgia: .909 (10-1), Auburn: .714 (10-4)
SEC: Georgia: 1.000 (18-0), Auburn: .708 (17-7)
Win streaks:
Home: Georgia: 19, Auburn: 10
SEC: Georgia: 18, Auburn: 9
AP final ranking:
Georgia: 1, 6, 4, Auburn: 14, 3, 14, unranked
Bowls:
Georgia: Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Auburn: Tangerine, Sugar, Liberty , Cotton
Advantage: Herschel, and Bo is nowhere near.
6. Heisman balloting:
Herschel:
1980: 3rd (highest ever point total for a freshman)
1981: 2nd
1982: 1st (margin, 695 votes over John Elway)
Herschel beat out such names as John Elway, Eric Dickerson, Anthony Carter, and Dan Marino.
Bo:
1982: not on the ballot
1983: not on the ballot
1984: not on the ballot
1985: 1st (margin, 45 votes over Chuck Long, the closest vote ever)
Bo beat out such names as Chuck Long, Robbie Bosco, Vinny Testaverde, and Allan Pinckett.
Advantage: Herschel, and Bo doesn't approach him.
7. Other arguments.
Bo was a great baseball player. So was Nolan Ryan, but no one mistook him for a football player.
Bo had a better pro career. By what standards? Consider this:
Bo never had over 1,000 yards. Herschel did it for two different teams.
Bo never finished in the league's top 10 in any statistic in any season. Herschel was in the top 10 in rushing yards twice, rushing scores 5 times, receptions twice, yards from scrimmage 4 times, and rush/recieve TD's twice.
Bo never finished in the top 50 for any stat in his career. Herschel is in 5 categories. Herschel is the only player to have 10,000+ yards gained on offense and 5,000+ yards on kickoff returns. Herschel is one of only six players to exceed 60 TDs rushing and 20 TDs receiving.
Bo is only one of two players with two 90+ yard rushing TDs, but Herschel is the only player in NFL history to score a 90+ yard TD rushing, receiving, and kickoff return in the same season, and he did it in his 30's.
In conclusion:
The SEC has seen a lot of great players, and a lot of great running backs. None of them have been better in four years than Herschel Walker was in three, and that includes Bo Jackson. Bo had one great year. So did Charles Alexander from LSU and Kentucky 's Mo Williams, who both exceeded 1,600 yards in a season. So did Florida 's Emmitt Smith, Auburn 's Rudi Johnson, and Georgia 's Garrison Hearst, who all exceeded 1,500 yards in a season. No one, however, has had the sustained excellence that Herschel had throughout his career.
No one comes close. Not even Bo.
Ballgame.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:20 pm to NYCAuburn
NYC, I understand you don't like the Heisman. I'm not the biggest fan of it either, but I do think it gives pretty decent insight into the perceptions of that time period.
What would you propose as a better measure of the two running backs?
What would you propose as a better measure of the two running backs?
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:23 pm to GoldenDawg
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:23 pm to smelvis
quote:
Statiscal Breakdown
another good one
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:24 pm to Dawg in Beaumont
quote:
Dawg in Beaumont
so by your standards, Archie Griffin >> HW
and saying he didnt win it in his freshman and sophomore year because he was an underclassmen is a joke as well
This post was edited on 11/15/13 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:25 pm to MrAUTigers
Did we really just get a link to yahoo answers? 
Well, that settles it. Sorry for being so silly to bring up Heisman votes and ESPN's all time rankings. Yahoo answers has settled it.
Yall make the backup school jokes too damn easy.
Well, that settles it. Sorry for being so silly to bring up Heisman votes and ESPN's all time rankings. Yahoo answers has settled it.
Yall make the backup school jokes too damn easy.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:25 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
another good one
Only if you're Herschel. Bo doesn't even pass the most basic ocular analysis.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:26 pm to smelvis
quote:
The Bo vs. Herschel debate came up again. Send this to all your Auburn friends and end the debate.
Anyone who's watched SEC football for the past, oh, 50 years knows that when it comes to running backs, there's Herschel Walker and Bo Jackson, and everyone else. So who's the better college running back? Bo? Herschel? There are a few ways you can look at this one.
1. Freshman impact. No contest here. Herschel set the freshman rushing record at 1,616 yards - and he did that in the equivalent of 9 games (he missed the bulk of the Ole Miss game, and a half against both UT and TCU). Bo? 829 yards. Ho hum. Or let me put it this way: Bo rushed for fewer yards as a freshman than Jasper Sanks did as a sophomore. Herschel should have won the Heisman as a freshman. Bo? Bo wasn't diddly as a freshman.Advantage: Herschel, and Bo doesn't really deserve to be mentioned in his company here.
2. Season rushing stats. Let's take a look at their seasons in terms of yards gained per season and put them in order.
1. 1,891 yards. Herschel, 1981.
2. 1,786 yards. Bo, 1985.
3. 1,752 yards. Herschel, 1982.
4. 1,616 yards. Herschel, 1980.
5. 1,213 yards. Bo, 1983.
6. 829 yards. Bo, 1982.
7. 475 yards. Bo, 1984.
Auburn fans will quickly remind you that Bo's 1984 season was shortened by injury. I will remind Auburn fans that Herschel missed a game and a half his freshman year and a game his junior year based on injury. OK, so let's go ahead and play the "what if" game. What if Bo and Herschel hadn't missed any time due to injury? To let you know how I came up with these numbers, I did it like this. Herschel missed 1.5 games in 1980 due to injury. Take 1,616, divide by 9.5, multiply by 11 for the revised total. Here are the "no injuries" numbers:
1. 1,936 yards. Herschel, 1982.
2. 1,891 yards. Herschel, 1981.
3. 1,871 yards. Herschel, 1980.
4. 1,786 yards. Bo, 1985.
5. 1,213 yards. Bo, 1983.
6. 1,045 yards. Bo, 1984.
7. 829 yards. Bo, 1982.
Bo don't know Herschel's yards. Put another way, Herschel's 3 years are 3 of the top 5 rushing totals in SEC history. Bo's second best year doesn't even make the top 20.
Advantage: Herschel, and it's not close.
3. Career rushing stats.
Herschel: 5,259 yards in 3 years
Bo: 4,303 yards in 4 years.
Some Auburn fans will tell you that a healthy Bo Jackson would have outrushed Herschel over 4 years. Fine. Let's play that game, too. I'll even give Bo a 1984 equivalent to his best season, 1985. Don't forget, though, that Herschel had another full year to play when he left. Giving Herschel the equivalent of his best year, you get these numbers:
Herschel: 7,150 yards
Bo: 5,614 yards
Sorry, Aubies. Advantage: Herschel, and again, it's not even close.
4. Durability. To make it through the always-brutal SEC schedule, a running back must have durability. The best home-run running back in the world doesn't do squat from the bench.
Per game: Herschel has two of the top 4 rush attempts in a game. Bo doesn't even make the list.
Per season: Herschel has the top 2 seasons. Bo's best season is at #15.
Career: Herschel had more rushes in 3 years than anyone in SEC history had in 4.
No contest here. Compared to Herschel, Bo was a china doll. Bo took himself out of games. Herschel put himself back in them. Advantage: Herschel, and Bo isn't in the same class.
5. Team impact. Good players get good stats. Great players get great stats. Elite players lift the teams around them. Let's look at the team records and accomplishments.
National championships: In Herschel's 3 years, Georgia won a national championship and played for another. In Bo's 4, Auburn won none and played for none.
SEC championships: Georgia won 3 in Herschel's 3 years. Auburn won 1 in Auburn 's 4.
Winning percentage:
Georgia: .917 (33-3), Auburn: .755 (37-12)
At home: Georgia: 1.000 (19-0), Auburn: .846 (22-4)
Away: Georgia: .909 (10-1), Auburn: .714 (10-4)
SEC: Georgia: 1.000 (18-0), Auburn: .708 (17-7)
Win streaks:
Home: Georgia: 19, Auburn: 10
SEC: Georgia: 18, Auburn: 9
AP final ranking:
Georgia: 1, 6, 4, Auburn: 14, 3, 14, unranked
Bowls:
Georgia: Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Auburn: Tangerine, Sugar, Liberty , Cotton
Advantage: Herschel, and Bo is nowhere near.
6. Heisman balloting:
Herschel:
1980: 3rd (highest ever point total for a freshman)
1981: 2nd
1982: 1st (margin, 695 votes over John Elway)
Herschel beat out such names as John Elway, Eric Dickerson, Anthony Carter, and Dan Marino.
Bo:
1982: not on the ballot
1983: not on the ballot
1984: not on the ballot
1985: 1st (margin, 45 votes over Chuck Long, the closest vote ever)
Bo beat out such names as Chuck Long, Robbie Bosco, Vinny Testaverde, and Allan Pinckett.
Advantage: Herschel, and Bo doesn't approach him.
7. Other arguments.
Bo was a great baseball player. So was Nolan Ryan, but no one mistook him for a football player.
Bo had a better pro career. By what standards? Consider this:
Bo never had over 1,000 yards. Herschel did it for two different teams.
Bo never finished in the league's top 10 in any statistic in any season. Herschel was in the top 10 in rushing yards twice, rushing scores 5 times, receptions twice, yards from scrimmage 4 times, and rush/recieve TD's twice.
Bo never finished in the top 50 for any stat in his career. Herschel is in 5 categories. Herschel is the only player to have 10,000+ yards gained on offense and 5,000+ yards on kickoff returns. Herschel is one of only six players to exceed 60 TDs rushing and 20 TDs receiving.
Bo is only one of two players with two 90+ yard rushing TDs, but Herschel is the only player in NFL history to score a 90+ yard TD rushing, receiving, and kickoff return in the same season, and he did it in his 30's.
In conclusion:
The SEC has seen a lot of great players, and a lot of great running backs. None of them have been better in four years than Herschel Walker was in three, and that includes Bo Jackson. Bo had one great year. So did Charles Alexander from LSU and Kentucky 's Mo Williams, who both exceeded 1,600 yards in a season. So did Florida 's Emmitt Smith, Auburn 's Rudi Johnson, and Georgia 's Garrison Hearst, who all exceeded 1,500 yards in a season. No one, however, has had the sustained excellence that Herschel had throughout his career.
No one comes close. Not even Bo.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:27 pm to smelvis
quote:
Can I have Bo but make him not have the hips of an 80 year old woman or have to sit out a couple of seasons with Super AIDS?
Old Paper Tush was great at running up walls and stuff. Not made to last though.
If you want a guy on your team who is a consistent player, who will keep defenses honest, you go with Hershel.
If you want a play-maker who has the ability to make things happen and gives defenses fits, you go with Bo.
You can get consistency at RB with what the NFL has gone to -- RB by committee. You CAN'T get by committee, the play-maker who always gives you a chance to score on any play.
These are really two totally different players. It's like asking if the best OL in the history of the game is better than the best kicker. They both do the job very well, and their absence will hurt, but they can be replaced.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:29 pm to smelvis
quote:
Did we really just get a link to yahoo answers?
Well, that settles it. Sorry for being so silly to bring up Heisman votes and ESPN's all time rankings. Yahoo answers has settled it.
Yall make the backup school jokes too damn easy.
You got three links dumb shite. One for Herschel. One for Bo. One where it went both ways. You leg humpers sure are butt hurt that anyone would be considered in herschel's class, aren't you? You put up ONE link and call "ballgame".
I will end this "debate" with......
frick Georgia.
frick Herschel.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:30 pm to MrAUTigers
quote:
You got three links dumb shite.
One was Bleacher Report, and the other was Yahoo Answers.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:31 pm to MrAUTigers
quote:
You got three links dumb shite. One for Herschel. One for Bo. One where it went both ways. You leg humpers sure are butt hurt that anyone would be considered in herschel's class, aren't you? You put up ONE link and call "ballgame".
I will end this "debate" with......
frick Georgia.
frick Herschel.
This reeks of Fallback U frustration when faced with reality.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:38 pm to dawg4lyfe
quote:
One was Bleacher Report, and the other was Yahoo Answers.
Don't forget the third link from Kaboom magazine.
Posted on 11/15/13 at 12:38 pm to smelvis
Link to your diploma.
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