re: Color me shocked:Mizzou doesn’t cave to student demands

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Plans to keep Thomas Jefferson statue

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First, I am in full favor of removing all CSA related symbols, honors and remembrances of any sort from federal lands/properties and institutions that receive federal tax monies. I'd extend that to include state owned and supported entities as well... they are a part of the Union. However, my opinion on that has nothing to do with slavery. It has everything to do with honoring traitors and oath breakers.

Many will disagree, but it is just my opinion, which doesn't mean much.

That said, at some point we have to open a history book and realize that slavery (as disgusting a practice and wrongful racially/ethnically driven caste system that it was) happened and was a legal accepted practice. That does not discredit all other actions of historically significant people who legally participated in the system.

The US founding fathers nor the early English/Spanish settlers who first brought slaves into what is now the United States did not invent slavery.

Hell, the first documented "legal slave owner" in the colonies was a black, tobacco farmer in Virginia named Anthony Johnson.

In 1830 (according to Snopes.com) there were ~319,599 free blacks in the United States. Of that population, 3,775 owned a total of 12,760 slaves. Slavery in the US was an outgrowth of indentured service and a common practice as a cultural norm of the times. Applying a 2020 lense to issues of the 1600s-1800s is hardly an objective view of history.

Native Americans even owned slaves. and, to that topic, they are the group who should really be in national uproar (with ALL of our support) now that momentum for a cause has rightfully forced a nation to look at its biases and question why? They were subjected to damn near genocide. They were persecuted and commonly victims of violent racism as well into the late 1900s. That was every bit as much of a national shame. Yet, we are deep into the tear down and rebrand anything that dealt with slavery phase of the 2000s era of progress. Meanwhile, the Buffalo Soldiers remain a huge crowd favorite for what it meant toward racial progress at the time; nevermind they were fighting an already oppressed Native American. I bet no one is protesting to pull down their monument at Ft. Leavenworth or asking the Army to pull Indian campaign streamers off of Cavalry Unit Colors and Guidons. Or, petitioning to give them back all of their land that we stole (fought and won) as a nation. And, that is the crux of both issues from a historical perspective. We deplore both slavery and the plight of the native American, but few would want to change things historically for all that it has brought us today. That is true because at its heart, the USA is still the greatest nation on earth and clearly capable of positive social growth and opportunity for ALL.

None of the above is to deflect or otherwise excuse the actions of our forefathers, which are truly shameful in today's context. They are directly linked to the TRUE biases in the system that have fed and shaped many of the cultural stereotypes, groupings and issues of today.

All that said, I remain optimistic that we will pull through this together and be stronger for it, more united, and armed with a wider perspective and higher degree of empathy as a nation moving forward. If you account for the timeline of slavery, reconstruction and segregation in the US, I genuinely think it is impressive how far we have progressed as a nation.


Hopefully, we all stop the madness soon but continue a meaningful, productive dialog that leads to action and real change. A USA where all minorities have a voice and platform to advocate for them; one where empathy coupled with thick skins exists, and people can quit walking on eggshells scared to share an opinion or critique a person of a different color; where "racism" is also recognized as a behavior that is not solely conducted by whites AND all forms of it are EQUALLY unacceptable in our society. One where there is no longer a need for equal opportunity advisors and hiring quotas because all have equal opportunity. One where all lives matter and justice is equally distributed. And, this has been a long way around to get back to the original message of the OP, but I hope for one where the immediate emotional release and counter-response of our brothers and sisters of all colors does not result in irreparable harm to artifacts of true historical significance nor continue to widen a divide between peoples and public institutions.

That divide is the real threat to our national security. And, I despise the feeling that political partisanship and politicians' individual greed in an election year are fanning the flames of that divide and even attempting to draw our military into partisan BS to serve nothing but their own selfish agendas.

Honestly I thought there would be a house cleaning too. Missouri still in the SEC somehow.

I wish LSU had the balls to stand up and not cave in to these idiotic demands from people like that.

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I mean, Thomas Jefferson isn't a Confederate icon, so not surprising. He's on Mount Rushmore for a damn reason, because he's one of the most important people of the early days of the United States of America.

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Well I mean, he only RAPED his black female slaves, but other than that, he's a swell guy I suppose.

I agree with most of what you said. There is context to everything and these decisions should be made mindful of all the particularities of each case.

However I do find it amusing that the one region of the country known for its Christian beliefs is also now making a case for moral relativism.

Finally something to be proud of again with the school.

I guess I might have to cut another check for the first time in a long time.

I don't have the source, but I recall a podcast that effectively debunked the rumor that Jefferson fathered slave children. His brother is a much more likely source of the Jefferson DNA among the family's slaves.

Here is an article that debunks the Jefferson raped his slave rumor. LINK / There is far more evidence that it was Jefferson's younger brother who slept with Sallie Hemmings.

Also, many slaves willingly slept with their masters. Let's not be naive. Of course, many prob thought it would get them a better life, but many of these slave master interactions were mutual.