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re: Based on Alabama's recruiting, will they shift to more of an LSU style defense?

Posted on 2/7/14 at 8:26 am to
Posted by MrsGarrison
Member since Jan 2014
168 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 8:26 am to
Those responses aren't detailed. The program that Les' maintained or established has been winning games. What's his involvement besides making the right hires eventually? Saban is hands on in game-day preparation, coaching the defensive backs, and developing defensive game plans. What's Miles' specialty?
Posted by coachcrisp
pensacola, fl
Member since Jun 2012
30597 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 8:46 am to
quote:

Are you an Auburn fan? They must have slipped you some crimson colored cool-aid. When Bama loses its too late in the seaon or too early. They were coming off a draining victory or the players weren't focused on the process. Or the 5* players were pouting on the bench. Or the kicker sucks. Or the players beat themselves. Or they other teams always have something to prove. Or Or Or, If If If, And And And, But But But. wouldn't it be easier to just say.......WE LOST ?
When ANY team loses there's ALWAYS a reason. It may even be that they played a better, more athletic, better coached, more motivated, al of the above, etc., etc....Why don't you take the Alabama losses over the last 5 years (there have only been 7) and analyze them? It's easy: South Carolina, LSU(2), Auburn(2), A&M, and Oklahoma.
Posted by BlackCloud
Above It All
Member since Jan 2014
3816 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 8:48 am to
quote:

Saban is hands on in game-day preparation, coaching the defensive backs, and developing defensive game plans. What's Miles' specialty?


Some of the best coaches in the history of football at any level have been good managers of coaches and players. If I have to name them for you then you truly don't understand the sport.

Hey..Have another sip of the crimson kool-aid. You seem to be enjoying it. Rashaan Evans sure does.
Posted by BlackCloud
Above It All
Member since Jan 2014
3816 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 8:51 am to
quote:

When ANY team loses there's ALWAYS a reason

That's my point Bubba. I was raised old school I guess. You are supposed to give your opponent credit and then go to the film room and break it all down. Geeezzzz.....I'm that guy now!
Posted by Crimson G
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2013
1353 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 8:52 am to
I take a black box approach to evaluating coaching. As long as the input is a reasonable amount of money and the output is winning games, I don't care about the innerworkings of the box (assuming everything is legal).
Posted by cas4t
Member since Jan 2010
70894 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 8:53 am to
quote:

(assuming everything is legal).


I don't even care about this as long as we don't get caught
Posted by coachcrisp
pensacola, fl
Member since Jun 2012
30597 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 8:54 am to

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When ANY team loses there's ALWAYS a reason
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That's my point Bubba. I was raised old school I guess. You are supposed to give your opponent credit and then go to the film room and break it all down. Geeezzzz.....I'm that guy now!
..................................................

Actually your point was that folks shouldn't try to make "excuses", not don't give a reason, and I can appreciate that. The problem with that is when a team seems to be better, whether on paper or by previous performances, but loses the game, then people are going to try to find out the reason for the loss...it's human nature.

This post was edited on 2/7/14 at 9:04 am
Posted by OldPete
Georgia
Member since Oct 2013
2804 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 9:22 am to
quote:

So, what is this blueprint that you speak of?


The only game you mention them losing against the 2 teams I spoke of (Auburn, A&M) was the 2010 Auburn team that had Cam Newton...and it seems like LSU learned a lot from that game. In 2009 & 2011, LSU had no problem with Auburn's spread...and despite what you say 'bout A&M, their offense was shut down both times LSU faced 'em with Manziel...and according to Sumlin Manziel's thumb wasn't an issue:

Sumlin discounted a report Manziel, also held to one TD pass last week in a loss at LSU, has been hampered by a thumb injury

"If he wasn't healthy enough to play, he wouldn't have played," Sumlin said.


Their track record against spread teams since Chavis has been their DC has been very good. As for spreads outside the SEC, LSU's defense beat the spread offenses of West Virginia in 2010 & 2011, Oregon in 2011, Washington in 2012, and TCU in 2013...

The only spreads where they have struggled was with Cam Newton, Clemson (lack of motivation maybe?), and Ole Miss. As a Bama fan, since we've handled Ole Miss and Clemson pretty well in the past, I'm not as concerned with them. However, they've had great success with 2 spread teams we've struggled with, A&M and Auburn...I've always admired Chavis's defenses, both at UT and LSU...so maybe we could learn a thing or 2 from him as far as defending the spread goes...and that is the blueprint of which I speak...
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
36506 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 9:29 am to
quote:

I disagree. I'm going to have to side with the Aggies versus LSU. In 2012, Manziel wasn't a fully developed quarterback. I don't believe the game would have played out the same way on Thanksgiving weekend.


Schedule complaint, check.

The 2012 game was in the end of October.
Posted by MrsGarrison
Member since Jan 2014
168 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 9:34 am to
quote:

The only game you mention them losing against the 2 teams I spoke of (Auburn, A&M) was the 2010 Auburn team that had Cam Newton...and it seems like LSU learned a lot from that game. In 2009 & 2011, LSU had no problem with Auburn's spread...and despite what you say 'bout A&M, their offense was shut down both times LSU faced 'em with Manziel...and according to Sumlin Manziel's thumb wasn't an issue:

Sumlin discounted a report Manziel, also held to one TD pass last week in a loss at LSU, has been hampered by a thumb injury

"If he wasn't healthy enough to play, he wouldn't have played," Sumlin said.

Their track record against spread teams since Chavis has been their DC has been very good. As for spreads outside the SEC, LSU's defense beat the spread offenses of West Virginia in 2010 & 2011, Oregon in 2011, Washington in 2012, and TCU in 2013...

The only spreads where they have struggled was with Cam Newton, Clemson (lack of motivation maybe?), and Ole Miss. As a Bama fan, since we've handled Ole Miss and Clemson pretty well in the past, I'm not as concerned with them. However, they've had great success with 2 spread teams we've struggled with, A&M and Auburn...I've always admired Chavis's defenses, both at UT and LSU...so maybe we could learn a thing or 2 from him as far as defending the spread goes...and that is the blueprint of which I speak...

Okay. 2011 West Virginia had 500+ yards versus LSU, and 2012 Texas A&M had 410 yards versus LSU. The difference in both games was turnovers. Look at the role turnovers played in LSU's 2011 Oregon and 2013 Auburn wins. If anything, LSU's scheme against spread teams is good at producing turnovers rather than completely shutting them down. Furthermore, the 2011 LSU defense was historic by LSU standards. Defenses that good will be pretty rare for LSU; LSU won't always have that amount of developed, realized talent and team chemistry. Few teams do nowadays.
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
36506 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 9:36 am to
Points win games, not yards.
Posted by MrsGarrison
Member since Jan 2014
168 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 9:37 am to
quote:

Points win games, not yards.

Points win games, and turnovers lose games.
LSU's work against spread teams the past several years is admirable, but so is Stanford's in the past two.
Posted by RT1941
Member since May 2007
30193 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 9:39 am to
quote:

Those responses aren't detailed. The program that Les' maintained or established has been winning games. What's his involvement besides making the right hires eventually? Saban is hands on in game-day preparation, coaching the defensive backs, and developing defensive game plans. What's Miles' specialty?
I think that's the brilliance that is Les Miles. He has his hand in everything, he doesn't specialized in one particular aspect of the offense or defense, he's in all of it. And, he's done a damn fine job IMHO.

Les appears goofy as hell (I think that's all a charade for the public), but he flat out gets the job done and he's piled up the W's since he's been at LSU.
Posted by OldPete
Georgia
Member since Oct 2013
2804 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 9:43 am to
quote:

Okay. 2011 West Virginia had 500+ yards versus LSU, and 2012 Texas A&M had 410 yards versus LSU. The difference in both games was turnovers. Look at the role turnovers played in LSU's 2011 Oregon and 2013 Auburn wins. If anything, LSU's scheme against spread teams is good at producing turnovers rather than completely shutting them down. Furthermore, the 2011 LSU defense was historic by LSU standards. Defenses that good will be pretty rare for LSU; LSU won't always have that amount of developed, realized talent and team chemistry. Few teams do nowadays.



I watched the West Virginia game that year...LSU won 47-21 and the game was never that close...when WVU made a run, LSU turned the switch back on...

Yes, I agree with you 'bout the 2011 LSU defense bein' historic. However, this year's LSU defense was pretty mediocre and they still shutdown Auburn's and aTm's spread offenses; this makes me think there's something 'bout LSU's defensive scheme that works particularly well against the spread, or at least Auburn's & aTm's version of the spread...
Posted by MrsGarrison
Member since Jan 2014
168 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 9:56 am to
quote:

I watched the West Virginia game that year...LSU won 47-21 and the game was never that close...when WVU made a run, LSU turned the switch back on...

Yes, I agree with you 'bout the 2011 LSU defense bein' historic. However, this year's LSU defense was pretty mediocre and they still shutdown Auburn's and aTm's spread offenses; this makes me think there's something 'bout LSU's defensive scheme that works particularly well against the spread, or at least Auburn's & aTm's version of the spread...

I haven't seen a defense that shut down everyone, and it'd be tough to build a defense that could defeat all offenses. There are too many to prepare for. Chavis' defenses haven't lived up to their anti-spread reputation 3 out of the last 4 years vs Ole Miss. Ole Miss hasn't been playing with phenomenal players, and their offense isn't stacked with talent, yet they know how to have success versus LSU. Alabama's been struggling against Heisman winning quarterbacks, great teams, or offenses that no one had an answer to at the time with a WTF loss here and there (2010 South Carolina, 2013 Oklahoma).
Posted by OldPete
Georgia
Member since Oct 2013
2804 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 10:06 am to
quote:

I haven't seen a defense that shut down everyone, and it'd be tough to build a defense that could defeat all offenses...


I agree with you 100% on this point...I just think, if I were Bama, I might want to take a look at what LSU has been doin' to have success against the 2 specific spread offenses that we've struggled with lately...
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
36506 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 10:16 am to
Chavis is successful because he makes adjustments when needed.
Posted by MrsGarrison
Member since Jan 2014
168 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Chavis is successful because he makes adjustments when needed.

No adjustments are needed for Ole Miss despite their success versus his defenses in 2009, 2010, 2012, and 2013? All 4 years, Ole Miss had 400+ yards and at least 25 points. Even with multiple turnovers in 2010 and 2012, Ole Miss managed to score 5 touchdowns versus Chavis' anti-spread defense.
Posted by OldPete
Georgia
Member since Oct 2013
2804 posts
Posted on 2/7/14 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

No adjustments are needed for Ole Miss despite their success versus his defenses in 2009, 2010, 2012, and 2013?


I can see your point...Ole Miss seems to have his number...however, Freeze didn't arrive at Ole Miss till 2012 so the offenses prior to that (under Houston Nutt) were different. They had some elements of the spread (including the Wild Rebel) but their offense was multiple; if I recall correctly, they ran a good bit of the pro set as well...
This post was edited on 2/7/14 at 2:06 pm
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