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re: As the jar cracks - Johnny Manziel's downfall is upon us

Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:07 pm to
Posted by The_Joker
Winter Park, Fl
Member since Jan 2013
16355 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:07 pm to
quote:

Lol all those people bring NOTHING in terms of money to the University compared to Football. That is like some idiot minimum wage worker thinking "Why am I not paid as a doctor" uh, because you don't do the work of a doctor.


How much money they bring in isn't the point dumbass
Posted by GigemAgs3
Member since Dec 2012
189 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:07 pm to
Schools should not have to pay athletes. However athletes should be able to make money off their own brand.
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134141 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

Regardless of how this ends, he's damaged his reputation and A&Ms, and ensured that if he plays, he will personally be the topic of discussion for every game this year.


Yup.

I want him gone if he's not completely and inexorably exonerated (which is appearing less likely by the hour).

Aggies still have a huge upside without him. Time to explore it instead of risking not counting games Manziel has played in.
Posted by Cap Crunch
Fire Alleva
Member since Dec 2010
54189 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

Schools should not have to pay athletes. However athletes should be able to make money off their own brand.

This is really the only thing that should be debated


Unfortunately for you and JFF though, its illegal now and he should have known better
Posted by semotruman
Member since Nov 2011
23188 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:09 pm to
quote:

I wonder what his teammates think of him nowadays.

I can't imagine he's too popular right now.
Posted by TutHillTiger
Mississippi Alabama
Member since Sep 2010
49830 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:09 pm to
FROM NCAA PREPARED STATEMENT IN BACCUS 2004 HEARINGs:

This NCAA enforcement process has come under much criticism, much of it understandable, yet generally unjustified. Examples of aspects of the enforcement process that have come under such criticism include the following:

In almost every case, the incriminating evidence against the accused institution and individuals is presented to the Infractions Committee through narrative accounts by the enforcement staff, backed up by written transcripts of interviews and signed statements. The first-hand witnesses, including the ''accusers,'' are not allowed to attend the hearing or to give testimony even if they want to, no matter how crucial their testimony is to the case. Thus, the accused institution and involved individuals have no ability to confront or to cross-examine the witnesses against them, or to present witnesses in their defense. Audio or video tape recordings of the interviews of first-hand witnesses are not allowed to be played at the hearing so voice inflection, body language, or even context cannot be evaluated by the Infractions Committee.
Posted by The_Joker
Winter Park, Fl
Member since Jan 2013
16355 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:09 pm to
quote:

Schools should not have to pay athletes. However athletes should be able to make money off their own brand.


Which brings in the whole "I'll buy your autograph for 50k if you come to my school" loophole
Posted by RT1941
Member since May 2007
31884 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:09 pm to
quote:

I wonder what his teammates think of him nowadays.





They may rally around him like the Auburn player's did during the Newton investigation. Kinda depends on if they trust him, and if he has been a good teamate/leader in the off season. The vibe the rest of the team gets from the coaching staff will determine how much the players support JM - Chizik/Trooper/Luper/Lolley/Roof/Malzhan all formed a tight, cohesive unit during that Newton fiasco and it showed on and off the field with that team.
Posted by TutHillTiger
Mississippi Alabama
Member since Sep 2010
49830 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:10 pm to
Although the incriminating evidence against the accused institution and involved individuals is presented in an oral report by an enforcement staff investigator, counsel for the ''defendants'' do not have a right to ask questions directly of (i.e., cross-examine) even that investigator.
Posted by Bellabama
Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent
Member since Nov 2009
30878 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:10 pm to
quote:



Unfortunately for you and JFF though, its illegal now and he should have known better




I totally agree with this. Regardless of how stupid the rule is, it's the rule, and you can't go deciding new ones.
Posted by NYCAuburn
TD Platinum Membership/SECr Sheriff
Member since Feb 2011
57012 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:10 pm to
quote:

250-300 other Student Athletes who you will have to pay also....


I'd say at least, and the football team really consist of about 115 guys, not just the 85 limit.
Posted by TutHillTiger
Mississippi Alabama
Member since Sep 2010
49830 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:11 pm to
FROM NCAA WRITTEN STATEMENT:

A school that allows an athlete to play in an athletic contest pursuant to a court order requiring it to do so, but the athlete is later determined by the courts and the NCAA to have been ineligible, may still be penalized by the NCAA's Division I Management Council in any of a variety of substantial ways ''in the interest of restitution and fairness to competing institutions.''(see footnote 11) This remarkable procedure, under which an institution can be severely penalized for doing only that which a court has ordered it to do, has nonetheless been employed on several occasions and has been found by the courts to be a lawful exercise of regulatory authority for a sports governing organization.(see footnote 12)
Posted by CtotheVrzrbck
WeWaCo
Member since Dec 2007
37538 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:12 pm to
So what's the latest on all this?
Posted by Jobu93
Cypress TX
Member since Sep 2011
21300 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:12 pm to
I agree wholeheartedly.

It's time to cut JFF loose. He made his choice about putting himself above his team one too many times and there is no happy ending for him.

We will compete, and we will do it cleanly. Maybe Davis does get that PT we thought he wouldn't and maybe he won't be transferring.
Posted by Cap Crunch
Fire Alleva
Member since Dec 2010
54189 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:13 pm to
quote:

I'd say at least, and the football team really consist of about 115 guys, not just the 85 limit

Don't forget the student support staff. Throw in trainers and equipment managers, that puts you around 130 just for football. Throw in the other sports and I don't think more than 3-4 athletic departments in the country could afford that
Posted by NYCAuburn
TD Platinum Membership/SECr Sheriff
Member since Feb 2011
57012 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:13 pm to
Lots of smoke, still no flames yet.
Posted by biclops
Member since Oct 2011
6187 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:13 pm to
quote:

Lots of smoke, still no flames yet.


Just like ATPB huh?
Posted by TutHillTiger
Mississippi Alabama
Member since Sep 2010
49830 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:14 pm to
WHY YOU Can't See from for violation of due process etc

II. CURRENT LEGAL CONSTRAINTS ON THE NCAA'S ENFORCEMENT PROCESS

Prior to the early 1980s, the NCAA was generally considered to be a state actor and thus its rules and actions were subjected to judicial review under traditional constitutional standards. Usually, the NCAA was able successfully to persuade courts that its procedures were adequate under due process standards,(see footnote 13) or that the rights being asserted by plaintiff athletes were not constitutionally protected property rights in the first place.(see footnote 14) Occasionally, the courts found that eligibility to play college sports was a protected property right and that the NCAA had failed to meet constitutional safeguards,(see footnote 15) but this was the exception. However, after the Supreme Court's ''state action'' trilogy in 1982,(see footnote 16) the Fourth Circuit clearly reversed course in Arlosoroff v. NCAA, 746 F.2d 1019 (4th Cir. 1984), by holding the NCAA to be a private actor immune from constitutional attack in a case brought by a prospective student-athlete at Duke University, a private institution. But even after Arlosoroff, many still believed that this view was either an aberration or was limited to cases involving only private universities.

The Supreme Court put an end to this confusion in 1988 in the highly publicized case of NCAA v. Tarkanian, 488 U.S. 179 (1988). In a 5 to 4 decision written by Justice Stevens(see footnote 17) in a case involving NCAA disciplinary action for numerous major infractions by University of Nevada at Las Vegas men's basketball coach Jerry Tarkanian, the Supreme Court held that the NCAA was not a state actor and thus was not subject to having its rules or decisions challenged for alleged violations of constitutional due process (and logically of equal protection, free speech, unreasonable searches and seizures, privacy, and all other rights provided for in the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution). Because the case involved an employee of a state university, the scope of the Tarkanian ruling was sweeping, and since then it has been universally accepted that NCAA rules and conduct are beyond the reach of the U.S. Constitution.(see footnote 18)
Page 26 PREV PAGE TOP OF DOC

The Supreme Court reaffirmed this ruling in 2001 in Brentwood Academy v. Tennessee Secondary School Athletic arse'n, 531 U.S. 288 (2001), another 5–4 decision,(see footnote 19) even though ironically the majority there held that a state high school athletic association whose membership was 84% public high schools was a state actor and could be challenged for violating a member school's First Amendment free speech rights. Justice Thomas' dissent argued that ''it [was] not difficult to imagine that application of the majority's entwinement test could change the result reached in [Tarkanian], so that the National Collegiate Athletic Association's actions could be found to be state action'' (see id. at 314, fn.7). However, writing for the majority, Justice Souter expressly adopted the holding and reasoning in Tarkanian, distinguished the two cases, and reaffirmed that the NCAA was not a state actor and its actions not subject to constitutional review (see id. at 297–98). Thus, the narrow 5–4 holding in Tarkanian was expanded and entrenched since all nine justices in Brentwood Academy took the view that the result in Tarkanian was intact and correct.

In addition to being immune from attack under the U.S. Constitution, the NCAA is apparently also immune from state constitutional or statutory provisions establishing due process and other similar constitutional-like protections. Shortly after Tarkanian, at least four states (Nevada, Nebraska, Illinois, and Florida) adopted legislation that specifically required the NCAA to grant various degrees and types of due process to individuals and institutions accused of violating NCAA rules.(see footnote 20) When in 1990 the NCAA received information that Jerry Tarkanian had again violated its rules and Tarkanian in turn demanded in a letter that he be given a number of procedural rights not provided for under the NCAA's rules, including access to a number of documents, the NCAA challenged the Nevada statute in a declaratory judgment action filed in Las Vegas. Both the District Court and in turn the Ninth Circuit, relying on several cases that had struck down state laws designed to regulate professional sports leagues,(see footnote 21) held that it violated the Dormant Commerce Clause of Article II of the U.S. Constitution for a single state to attempt to set the standards for NCAA rules and procedures when those rules and procedures necessarily have to be applied uniformly nationwide, as most NCAA rules do due to the inherent nature of the athletic competition activity that it regulates. Accordingly, Nevada's statute (and of course the other states' as well, assuming their circuits would agree with this ruling) was held to be unconstitutional and could not be enforced against the NCAA.(see footnote 22) See NCAA v. Miller, 795 F.Supp. 1476 (D. Nev. 1992), aff'd, 10 F.3d 633 (9th Cir. 1993).
Page 27 PREV PAGE TOP OF DOC

Thus today, after Tarkanian, Brentwood Academy, and Miller, it seems reasonably clear that, except to the limited extent federal legislation might apply,(see footnote 23) the NCAA's enforcement process and procedures are unconstrained by either federal constitutional or state law. Thus, the question for Congress to consider is whether it would be appropriate for new federal legislation to impose any procedural requirements on the NCAA, and if so, what those requirements should be.
Posted by JPLSU1981
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
28370 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:14 pm to
No one is stopping players from making money off their own brand. They simply just can't play under the NCAA umbrella anymore once they do...there are plenty other umbrellas outside the NCAA where players can make as much $$$ as they so desire off their own brand.

The whole paying players conversation is silly IMO...collegiate players are not getting paid anytime soon, so it's a waste of time IMO to discuss it.
This post was edited on 8/6/13 at 5:16 pm
Posted by NYCAuburn
TD Platinum Membership/SECr Sheriff
Member since Feb 2011
57012 posts
Posted on 8/6/13 at 5:15 pm to
quote:

Just like ATPB huh?


At this point I'd say its a lot worse than cam as far as info out there
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