re: Alabama players prayed with/for our president

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This is like the translations which say Jonah was swallowed by a whale, while some say fish. Not at all relevant to he story

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Let me say again, I'm not disputing the overall story (here). I'm pointing out contradictions in the bible.

If you want to pretend that this isn't a contradiction, would you like to move on to another? Want to tell me who first visited Jesus' tomb?

A. The two Mary's
B. The two Mary's and Solome
C. The two Marys, Joanna, and the others with them
D. Only Mary Magdalene
E. All of the above

Pick E, because they're all correct depending on which book of the bible you're in.

You can say none of this matters. But, then you expect me to believe people who can't get simple details correct in their stories are writing the word of God, from God, and I'm supposed to base my entire life around it? It's not even a well-written myth.

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When i was in the 9th grade

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In the early 1900's the Model T was a marvel of innovation. We've since built upon that. But, mass produced vehicles are still great.

I don't know what your links are supposed to prove. Nobody claims science in infallible or that there's no corruption in any part of it. But, I'll trust real science over myths and "I just feel it in my heart" any day.

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In the early 1900's the Model T was a marvel of innovation. We've since built upon that. But, mass produced vehicles are still great.

I don't know what your links are supposed to prove. Nobody claims science in infallible or that there's no corruption in any part of it. But, I'll trust real science over myths and "I just feel it in my heart" any day.

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I just find it odd that you hold science to a much lower standard than you do God, yet you do not believe God.

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You can say none of this matters

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It's the story of the Son of God being laid to rest and rising from the tomb, atoning for all of our sins.

And I'm supposed to care which person was written to be the first one down the road? Sorry, doesn't matter to me at all.



And I'm trying to find a mention of someone being first. The first day, the first light.....some names are mentioned first, but not as definitely being the first people to the tomb. Again, that's not a contradiction

ETA: thank you for this discussion. I appreciate someone who is obviously intelligent and educated sharing their view.

I said this subject should probably og away because of a lack of progress, and allowed myself to be drawn back in. I apologize. I think I will bow out as quietly as I can now.

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I would argue that per capita drug abuse/addiction, murder, theft, rape and other crimes are occurring at a higher rate. However, if you think they have not, then so be it.

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I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about things like morals.

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Are you saying a basic value for life and morals are better or even as good today as they were 150 years ago? Things were not great or even good 150 years ago. They never have been and they never will be. But if your argument is things are as good or better morally than they were 150 years ago, there might be an awful lot of people that would argue that point with you.

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I am saying that there is at least more freedom in the world today and less violence and discrimination perpetrated by those in power. That’s all I really care about. A lot of what people consider moral is up to the individual and not something I care much about.

I don’t care about some 30 y/o looking at boobs on the Internet when that wasn’t even possible 150 years ago. I don’t care about gay marriage, cheating spouses, gambling, etc., that many of the highly religious care about. But I do care about people facing systematic discrimination, violence, or being shipped off to war.

Yeah. 150 years ago, we just ended our deadliest war, which was fought largely in part over the ability to own slaves. Blacks couldn't vote, women couldn't vote. I doubt that the raping of slaves was being accurately reported. A husband beating his wife was just him teaching her a lesson. Child labor laws were nonexistent. Etc., etc.

Trotter, I know we've gone around about this on the SEC Rant OT a few times, but let me ask you an honest question: Why do you feel compelled to argue against someone's beliefs?

It seems you struggle with acceptance.

Is Christianity so unacceptable to you, that it prevents you from having peace of mind? Does the fact that billions of people place all of their hope in Jesus seem so illogical and unreasonable to you that simply have to force them to see reason and logic? It seems you can have no serenity until you've argued against every case for Christ. That's a lot of time and effort to dispute something you don't even believe in.

Christianity is not logical. It teaches that everything in and of this world is contrary to the nature of God. Everything the world holds in esteem is detested by God. It asks us to believe, with certainty, what can't be seen, heard or touched.

But this is the very definition of "faith".

We don't know how or why we were chosen. He chose us, we didn't chose Him.

If you ever feel convicted of sin, or of being a sinner, study Jesus and His message. Don't get tripped up by all the clutter:
* Evil committed in His name by people proclaiming to be Christian.
* Indisputable, scientific proof of God's existence (there isn't any. He resides in and outside of space/time).
* Hypocrites in the church (they're everywhere).

Focus on the message.

It's about a relationship, not religion.

I'm also done with this thread, but I'd really like to hear why The men who were WITH Jesus and SAW the miracles he performed (the apostles) did not deny that he was the Messiah and save their own lives instead of suffering horrible deaths. Some of the naysayers on this board surely have the answer.
• Simon, AKA Peter: Simon-Peter, who was appointed by Jesus the leader of the new sect, is viewed by Roman Catholics as the first pope, was eventually martyred in Rome during the reign of the emperor Nero. As the story goes, Peter asked to be crucified upside down, so that his death would not be the equal of Jesus and the Romans supposedly obliged.

• Andrew: According to 15th Century religious historian Dorman Newman, Andrew—the brother of Peter—went to Patras in western Greece in 69 AD, where the Roman proconsul Aegeates debated religion with him. Aegeates tried to convince Andrew to forsake Christianity, so that he would not have to torture and execute him. But when that didn’t work, apparently he decided to give Andrew the full treatment. Andrew was scourged, and then tied rather than nailed to a cross, so that he would suffer for a longer time before dying. Andrew lived for two days, during which he preached to passersby.

• James (son of Zebedee, AKA James the Greater): Acts 12:1-19 says that James was killed with a sword. The newly-appointed governor of Judea, Herod Agrippa, decided to ingratiate himself with the Romans by persecuting leaders of the new sect. After James was arrested and led to place of execution, his unnamed accuser was moved by his courage. He not only repented and converted on the spot, but asked to be executed alongside James. The Roman executioners obliged, and both men were beheaded simultaneously.

• John: John was the only one of the original disciples not to die a violent death. Instead, he passed away peacefully in Patmos in his old age, sometime around 100 AD.

• Philip: Philip, the first of Jesus’ disciples, became a missionary in Asia. Eventually, he traveled to the Egyptian city of Heliopolis, where he was scourged, thrown into prison, and crucified in 54 AD.

• Bartholomew: Bartholomew supposedly preached in several countries, including India, where he translated the Gospel of Matthew for believers. In one account, “impatient idolaters” beat Bartholomew and then crucified him, while in another, he was skinned alive and then beheaded.

• Thomas: Apparently Thomas preached the gospel in Greece and India, where he angered local religious authorities, who martyred him by running him through with a spear.

• Matthew: According to legend, the former tax collector turned missionary was martyred in Ethiopia, where he was supposedly stabbed in the back by an swordsman sent by King Hertacus, after he criticized the king’s morals.

• James (son of Alphaeus, AKA James the Less): According to Foxe, James, who was elected by his fellow believers to head the churches of Jerusalem, was one of the longest-lived apostles, perhaps exceeded only by John. At the age of 94, he was beaten and stoned by persecutors, and then killed him by hitting him in the head with a club.

• Thaddaeus, AKA Lebbaeus, Judas or Jude: According to several stories, he was crucified at Edessa (the name of cities in both Turkey and Greece) in 72 AD.

• Simon the Canaanite AKA the Zealot: Simon preached in Mauritania on the west coast of Africa, and then went to England, where he was crucified in 74 AD.

At different times and in different places, not ONE of them denied him to save themselves....that's all the proof I need.