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re: Was the civil war over slavery?
Posted on 6/19/20 at 3:16 pm to KyleOrtonsMustache
Posted on 6/19/20 at 3:16 pm to KyleOrtonsMustache
quote:
Was it about slavery? Yes
Was it about only slavery? No
Fair to say but I think it's also fair to say that had slavery not existed, the other issues alone would not have led to Civil War.
2
Posted on 6/19/20 at 3:22 pm to reedus23
quote:
Jesus Christ. Here goes the racists trying to defend their indefensible position.
Yes it was about slavery. I didn't even read your post because it was too long...so full disclosure. But been down this path before. Go read the articles of secession for each of the states and see how many times slave, slavery or some form of that word is used.
I wish that those that want to claim state's rights would just stand up and own it. State your a racist and proud of it and if you could, you'd bring slavery back today. I'd respect you more for not trying to sugar coat everything to make yourself feel better.
I wish that those who want to call other racists would read their actual argument first
"racist" is easier though
Posted on 6/19/20 at 3:26 pm to reedus23
Saying the civil war wasn't only about slavery is like saying the McDonald's menu isn't only unhealthy garbage because they added a salad. Sure, you could tack on a few smaller things, but slavery is doing all of the heavy lifting.
This post was edited on 6/19/20 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 6/19/20 at 3:49 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Saying the civil war wasn't only about slavery is like saying the McDonald's menu isn't only unhealthy garbage because they added a salad. Sure, you could tack on a few smaller things, but slavery is doing all of the heavy lifting.
You left out "pun intended"
You could have also added "literally and figuratively"
Posted on 6/19/20 at 3:59 pm to The Sultan of Swine
Wrong pal, read about south carolina's articles of succession, slavery is mentioned quite a bit
south carolina's articles of secession
south carolina's articles of secession
quote:
We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.
This post was edited on 6/19/20 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 6/19/20 at 4:08 pm to PeeJayScammedGT
quote:
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.
Hell yeah it was about slavery
Don't let the "lost cause" sympathizers for the loser arse Confederates tell you any different
Posted on 6/19/20 at 4:46 pm to The Sultan of Swine
An excerpt from Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address:
quote:
”One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves not distributed generally over the union but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen perpetuate and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war while the government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease”.
Posted on 6/19/20 at 9:34 pm to reedus23
quote:
Fair to say but I think it's also fair to say that had slavery not existed, the other issues alone would not have led to Civil War.
Agreed
Posted on 6/20/20 at 7:54 am to pvilleguru
quote:
Saying the civil war wasn't only about slavery is like saying the McDonald's menu isn't only unhealthy garbage because they added a salad. Sure, you could tack on a few smaller things, but slavery is doing all of the heavy lifting.
Winner, winner, chicken dinner.
It is not a popular opinion in the South, because no one wants to acknowledge they were the bad guys, but the Civil War mostly happened because of slavery.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 12:09 pm to The Sultan of Swine
Posted on 6/20/20 at 12:28 pm to Arksulli
quote:
It is not a popular opinion in the South, because no one wants to acknowledge they were the bad guys, but the Civil War mostly happened because of slavery.
Put another way...there is no Civil War but for the issue of slavery. Sure, people or states can pack other issues on top of slavery but none of those other issues would have led to Civil War. Civil War happened because of slavery.
And the south shouldn't acknowledge they were bad guys. Everyone was bad guys at the time. The north had slaves. The entire country treated native Americans like shite. It was just the way things were at the time. I'd like to think that EVERYONE has progressed since then.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 8:24 am to reedus23
My analogy would be that the Civil War was like lancing a boil.
The boil starts out small and you ignore it. It gets larger, it gets more infected, it gets more painful. You know it is going to suck to lance that sucker so you put it off hoping something will change. That only makes it worse. When you finally get it lanced you've just made it an even worse process to go through.
The question of slavery and the other issues between the States was put off, and put off some more, and put off even longer because everyone knew it was going to be painful and messy to address. Which meant when it was finally addressed the results were far more horrible than they might have been had this been settled sooner.
It was inevitable and going to happen. Unfortunately civil wars are fairly common for countries. All of the nice settled and peaceful countries we think of, the UK, Japan, France, and the US, all had very bloody civil wars. Hell, Australia came close to one when Western Australia wanted to break away and form their own country.
The boil starts out small and you ignore it. It gets larger, it gets more infected, it gets more painful. You know it is going to suck to lance that sucker so you put it off hoping something will change. That only makes it worse. When you finally get it lanced you've just made it an even worse process to go through.
The question of slavery and the other issues between the States was put off, and put off some more, and put off even longer because everyone knew it was going to be painful and messy to address. Which meant when it was finally addressed the results were far more horrible than they might have been had this been settled sooner.
It was inevitable and going to happen. Unfortunately civil wars are fairly common for countries. All of the nice settled and peaceful countries we think of, the UK, Japan, France, and the US, all had very bloody civil wars. Hell, Australia came close to one when Western Australia wanted to break away and form their own country.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 11:21 pm to The Sultan of Swine
anybody who thinks all those southern boys signed up to go fight against the union over slavery is an absolute naive fool. There was a narrative in the mid 1800's to control people just like there is a narrative today. you people emphasizing slavery are so clueless. The south fought for the same passionate reason the colonists fought.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 1:04 am to arcalades
You can spin however you would like and in this case, the glorious cause.
It still doesn't change the fact that half the wealth of Southern Aristocracy was in owning humans.
Southern soldiers may have signed up for the glorious cause voluntarily, or possibly even conscripted, but in the end fought only to keep the Aristocracy's wealth.
It still doesn't change the fact that half the wealth of Southern Aristocracy was in owning humans.
Southern soldiers may have signed up for the glorious cause voluntarily, or possibly even conscripted, but in the end fought only to keep the Aristocracy's wealth.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 1:30 am to OrangeEmpire
Confederate Constitution
“In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.”
Mississippi's Declaration of a Confederacy
Texas Declaration of Causes
“We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.”
“In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.”
Mississippi's Declaration of a Confederacy
quote:
“Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world,” it reads. “Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth.”
Texas Declaration of Causes
“We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.”
Posted on 6/23/20 at 7:56 am to OrangeEmpire
Posted on 6/23/20 at 9:23 am to OrangeEmpire
The South was pro-slavery in general. No one denies that. Although many such as Robert E Lee saw its demise as inevitable.
I mean Lincoln also held this view
“I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” - Abe Lincoln
quote:
“We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.”
I mean Lincoln also held this view
“I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” - Abe Lincoln
This post was edited on 6/23/20 at 9:24 am
Posted on 6/23/20 at 9:24 am to The Sultan of Swine
No, the root cause was economics but yes, slavery was a significant aspect of the economic issues.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 11:43 am to The Sultan of Swine
The south especially the wealthy and empowered went to war to preserve slavery, & protect states rights on issues such as tariffs etc.
The north went to war initially to preserve the union.
Goals evolved as the War went on. More southerners didn't hold slaves than those that did and they, the common enlistees were fighting for their homes, states, and each other.
The goal of the north evolved to making men free that should never have been enslaved.
So, it isn't as simple as some present it. But there is no doubt, the right side won. Slavery is evil and still exists in some portions of the world and should be stamped out. Let freedom ring. Another aside, before the War people referred to These United States. After the War it became simply The United States.
The north went to war initially to preserve the union.
Goals evolved as the War went on. More southerners didn't hold slaves than those that did and they, the common enlistees were fighting for their homes, states, and each other.
The goal of the north evolved to making men free that should never have been enslaved.
So, it isn't as simple as some present it. But there is no doubt, the right side won. Slavery is evil and still exists in some portions of the world and should be stamped out. Let freedom ring. Another aside, before the War people referred to These United States. After the War it became simply The United States.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 12:00 pm to Lynxrufus2012
quote:Almost the same percentage of southerners owned slaves as the percentage of Americans today have college degrees, and the college degree is getting devalued because so many people are getting one. Yes, the number of families that owned slaves were less than 50%, but a lot of those that didn't own slaves just couldn't afford them, but would have liked to one day.
More southerners didn't hold slaves than those that did and they, the common enlistees were fighting for their homes, states, and each other.
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