re: Atheist billboard campaign has begun

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I think anyone who lets their non-belief in something define them is a sad, sad person.

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Absolutely agree.

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Just as bad as the neckbeard Libertarians online, IMO.

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Absolutely agree.

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I think religion is a laughably ridiculous mythology. Having established that, it now occupies 0% of my time -- and I certainly wouldn't donate to a billboard campaign.

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I still find it relevant, and I enjoy healthy debate, and the nature of my existence is something I do care about. But, I do think it is a mythology, and all it takes is a gander at Revelations to really solidify how ridiculous some of it is. I enjoy the concept of forgiveness, and I know many people that have an open and caring attitude, not simply about the Church, but about using it to care for people, not as some social gathering and self absorbed source for vindication for the selfish shite they do.

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Let people believe their fantasies, as long as it doesn't affect me (it doesn't, Christmas is awesome).

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I agree, and I will go one step further, as I grew up in a big city with lots of religious groups. Jews, Mormons, Six Flags Over Jesus types, the anti-Six Flags Over Jesus Types that LOVED to tell you how their worship was so much better than the Six Flags Over Jesus Types, the run of the mill convenience protestants, Catholics, Muslims, atheists, agnostics... all fricking sorts. At the end of the day, I think we are all good people. A lot of people think man is inherently evil. I don't. I've seen too many good people of all different faiths to believe that. And I know there are good people out there in charge of some of these faiths, and I think they have a power to do immense good. I commend the efforts of charity, and those that believe it for religious strength, more power to you.

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People say this, when people reject their premise as flawed. You began this debate with a convoluted chain of logic. I twisted absolutely nothing. It's funny that you honestly believe I did that, when you were doing that from the very beginning. There are plenty of great arguments for your side, but you chose one that didn't make any sense, and simply refused to acknowledge at all what I was trying to say.

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You've taken us so far away from my premise, (while offering no real answers, I might add) that I had to think for a minute to remember where it was that we started.

My premise was this:

Objective moral values exist only if God exists.
Objective moral values do exist.
Therefore, God exists.

Now, where's the flaw?

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At the end of the day, I think we are all good people. A lot of people think man is inherently evil. I don't. I've seen too many good people of all different faiths to believe that.

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I don't think man is inherently evil. On the contrary, I think the overwhelming majority of us strive to do good by each other.

I DO think man is prone to frick up. For a variety of reasons. No matter how good you are, you ain't perfect. Ascribing to a religion doesn't change that, of course, but generally it's just a way of showing a commitment to a righteous way of living. Is religion the only way to do that? Of course not, that's arrogant, IMO. But at the same time, dismissing someone because they are religious is just as bad as vice versa.

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thread doesn't really need to continue on after this

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Oh, but it will

This thread is the zombie thread of the SECrOT

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That only a belief in God can establish moral values.

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That's not what it says.

That will fer sure get it anchored or whacked.