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re: 2016 Presidential Election

Posted on 4/13/15 at 9:16 am to
Posted by Duke
Twin Lakes, CO
Member since Jan 2008
35606 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 9:16 am to
quote:


Jeb is actually a decent to solid politician.


Jeb is a good politician with access to all the monies. As I've said before, I'm not thrilled he'll be more of the same in terms of crony-capitalism and hawkish foreign policy that only buys us trouble. I do think he'd be good at the job of being President though. Pragmatic enough in his views to get some compromise through congress and start to build a little trust between the left and right.

quote:

He can most definitely win, but sadly the name "Bush" might hold him back.


The Bush name won't matter if he makes the general election. His biggest problem is surviving the GOP primary. Conservatives don't like him, think he's too liberal, and don't want more of the same (his last name certainly doesn't help this perception). He needs the base to be fractured in the primaries and Rubio to get choked out from funding. He's got the pedigree, political machine, and polish to thread this needle. The margin for error is small and not fully in his control, however.

quote:

I don't think Rubio takes it this round, but maybe in 4 or 8 years.


I disagree, as I actually think he gets the nomination. He's got the youth and energy to be a nice counterpoint to Hillary. He's also the guy you always see pitching the most reasonable conservative proposals. Tax Reform, he's the pitchman. Immigration (his biggest weakness in the primaries sadly), he's got the most reasonable plan. My suspicion is that Bush can't get it done because of the current conservative environment and Rubio storms ahead to a win at a brokered convention.

quote:

Paul would be a good VP option for a lot of candidates, I just think he will struggle to get the nomination.


Paul does nothing for you as a VP. What swing states does he get for you? He could help a Bush or Rubio to add some conservative support and possibly grab some of the youth vote, but there are more appealing options. I'm looking at Ohio Governor John Kasich (though he's a darkhorse for the nomination in his own right) as the VEEP. The GOP has to get Ohio, as I think Hillary will take a Virginia based VEEP. Kasich is perfect. Will bring some conservative credentials to a more moderate nominee and getting Ohio is key.

Paul has to win the nomination or he stays a Senator. It's a tough road. He's got to tie the libertarians in the party with some of the more traditional Tea Party types and get strong numbers with young republicans getting out to vote for him. Betting on the youth vote is dangerous. Trying to get more of the base on board is harder. There's a lot of candidates in the field trying to court that vote. Cruz being the biggest problem for him. Cruz is tapping into traditional conservative anger and has the fire they desire.

quote:


The GOP's worst enemy is itself.


Yes it is. It's a party in a time of transition. The coalition of the religious conservatives and business interests isn't getting it done anymore on the national level. Young conservatives aren't interested in the social issues that drive the still sizable social conservative faction. You've got the Tea Party types (which is really just your conservative base) who are angry at what they feel as betrayal from the corporate interests of the "establishment".

The process is messy, but necessary for the future of the GOP and the conservative movement. The chaos brings fresh ideas, fresh perspectives, and a clearer vision. Eventually...

FWIW, the Democrats are a lost election cycle from looking at the same situation upcoming. The fractures are already starting to show. Progs aren't happy with Obama and aren't exactly thrilled with the more centrist Hillary. Obama build a broad coalition, but the support isn't very deep. It won't hold once the GOP gets its problems figured out.
Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 9:50 am to
quote:

. I'm looking at Ohio Governor John Kasich


I'm glad someone else actually follows politics know who Kasich is. One of the best the GOP has to offer IMO. Doesn't have the name recognition to make a Presidential run, but is the GOP's best friend right now, or he should be. He's won multiple elections in OHIO, which is very difficult to do.

quote:

Rubio


His biggest obstacle is Jeb. Being from the same state, only one can survive, and Jeb's machine will snuff him out early IMO. Rubio is electable, but money is with Jeb.

quote:

FWIW, the Democrats are a lost election cycle from looking at the same situation upcoming. The fractures are already starting to show. Progs aren't happy with Obama and aren't exactly thrilled with the more centrist Hillary. Obama build a broad coalition, but the support isn't very deep. It won't hold once the GOP gets its problems figured out.


I differ on this a little bit. GOP has a legit shot at the White House, but I think they lose seats in House and Senate. Individuals my struggle for the Dems, but the party as a whole is relatively united and strong. GOP has to do something to unite, or they face losing multiple election cycles.

FWIW, found this really good article on the 2016 Election. 2016 GOP Candidates
Posted by Duke
Twin Lakes, CO
Member since Jan 2008
35606 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 10:00 am to
quote:

Being from the same state, only one can survive, and Jeb's machine will snuff him out early IMO. Rubio is electable, but money is with Jeb.



I don't disagree. Rubio has to survive the early game and hope conservatives revolt against the idea of Jeb Bush. My bet is that this is what happens, and Rubio gets all the Bush money. It's not that farfetched.

quote:



I differ on this a little bit. GOP has a legit shot at the White House, but I think they lose seats in House and Senate. Individuals my struggle for the Dems, but the party as a whole is relatively united and strong. GOP has to do something to unite, or they face losing multiple election cycles.


Reasonable people can disagree. I do think the map for the Senate isn't kind to the GOP in a POTUS year. I do think the GOP has a realistic shot at the White House if they can pick a decent candidate.

Onto the Dems, I see a party united around who they aren't. Progs aren't thrilled with Obama's lack of accomplishments and Hillary isn't any better. The leadership is old and aren't inspiring Dems around any vision. They have the fact they aren't Republicans. This works fine when you have a fractured opposition party who have to pander to a polarized right wing. It won't when the GOP gets a unified and realistic vision of conservatism to sell.

I'll check out your article later. Thanks for sharing.
Posted by TeLeFaWx
Dallas, TX
Member since Aug 2011
29177 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 10:05 am to
quote:

I don't disagree. Rubio has to survive the early game and hope conservatives revolt against the idea of Jeb Bush. My bet is that this is what happens, and Rubio gets all the Bush money. It's not that farfetched.


Rubio either needs to get on the Bush ticket quick, or wait til 2024 after Hillary.

The issues the Republicans face is that every election that passes they become ridiculously hard to elect because their social stances are sooooo backwards.
Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 10:06 am to
quote:

I don't disagree. Rubio has to survive the early game and hope conservatives revolt against the idea of Jeb Bush. My bet is that this is what happens, and Rubio gets all the Bush money. It's not that farfetched


Thanks, nice having civilized conversation about politics

Just read that Rubio is officially in the race now.
Posted by Duke
Twin Lakes, CO
Member since Jan 2008
35606 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 10:10 am to
quote:



Rubio either needs to get on the Bush ticket quick


Both from Florida, doesn't make sense for him to join up with Bush. I'm sure Rubio will back out once the writing is on the wall and...

quote:

wait til 2024 after Hillary.


quote:


The issues the Republicans face is that every election that passes they become ridiculously hard to elect because their social stances are sooooo backwards.


It's a tight rope of alienating your base that wins you many a local and state election and not pushing away sympathetic moderates who can't get behind the conservative position on the social issues. I don't envy them trying to navigate that.
Posted by TeLeFaWx
Dallas, TX
Member since Aug 2011
29177 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 10:17 am to
quote:

Both from Florida, doesn't make sense for him to join up with Bush. I'm sure Rubio will back out once the writing is on the wall and...


Regionalism doesn't mean what it once did.

quote:

It's a tight rope of alienating your base that wins you many a local and state election and not pushing away sympathetic moderates who can't get behind the conservative position on the social issues. I don't envy them trying to navigate that.


I don't envy them either which is why I think Hillary is going to win. The voting population for the Presidental election is far younger than any other state/local election. It will bite them in the arse if the liberal media highlights their social positions.
Posted by Duke
Twin Lakes, CO
Member since Jan 2008
35606 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 10:41 am to
quote:


Regionalism doesn't mean what it once did.



I agree. The problem of capturing Ohio is still very real. Rubio might bring more hispanics, but Jeb is already well positioned to court them with his brother's legacy, the fact he speaks Spanish, and married a hispanic woman. I don't see what Rubio really adds to the ticket, they cover too similar of strengths. Bush will need someone who can get Ohio or at least throw the hardline conservatives a bone.

quote:

The voting population for the Presidental election is far younger than any other state/local election. It will bite them in the arse when the liberal media highlights their social positions.



FIFY.

Hillary has her own struggles to overcome. She isn't super likeable and extremely well known. It's going to be very hard to build any positive momentum. Assuming she isn't opposed for the primary, she'll be trying to really ramp up her campaign where the GOP candidate will already be in full swing campaign mode. I'm not ready to assume her the winner yet.
Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 10:50 am to
quote:

Hillary has her own struggles to overcome. She isn't super likeable and extremely well known. It's going to be very hard to build any positive momentum. Assuming she isn't opposed for the primary, she'll be trying to really ramp up her campaign where the GOP candidate will already be in full swing campaign mode. I'm not ready to assume her the winner yet.


The thing with Hillary is that she already has her max support. She isn't going to be getting any new supporters (likely). Can her voting bloc right now win a general election? I'm not convinced. If the vote were today, she likely wins, but the more opponents add chinks in the armor, the less likely it is for a "Madame President"

As I mentioned before. The GOP would do well to pick a candidate/team that can win Florida and Ohio. A perhaps likely combo to do so would be Jeb/Kasich. 2 birds with one stone.
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
36506 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 2:09 pm to
quote:

Yes it is. It's a party in a time of transition. The coalition of the religious conservatives and business interests isn't getting it done anymore on the national level. Young conservatives aren't interested in the social issues that drive the still sizable social conservative faction. You've got the Tea Party types (which is really just your conservative base) who are angry at what they feel as betrayal from the corporate interests of the "establishment".

The process is messy, but necessary for the future of the GOP and the conservative movement. The chaos brings fresh ideas, fresh perspectives, and a clearer vision. Eventually...


There's a growing fatigue young Republicans have with the neocons and social conservatives that currently own the Republican party.
Posted by 3nOut
Central Texas, TX
Member since Jan 2013
28827 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 2:17 pm to
Absolutely true. If the young and more libertarian side can have a say in Primaries we might have a chance of having somebody excitable to the base in Nobember.

I'm super excited that there are 2* people in the running currently that I would be happy vote for (*Rubio is inevitable) and 1 I won't hate too much to vote for (Cruz.) I haven't been excited about a candidate since 2000.

If the early primaries leave us with Bush or Christie it's the same as Clinton... Which was the same as Romney and McCain. Death knoll ringeth.
This post was edited on 4/13/15 at 2:18 pm
Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 2:27 pm to
I would highly suggest checking out my linked article above about the GOP primary.
Posted by 3nOut
Central Texas, TX
Member since Jan 2013
28827 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 2:39 pm to
Just had a chance to read it.

I've been on vacation and only looked at this thread in down time.

While I agree with a lot of the factual parts of the article I feel like it's trying to steer you towards Bush when nobody wants Bush but the establishment GOP.

I struggle to take anything from the NYT without a grain of salt in that regard.

But it is for sure a good read. I think that we're going to see a much better primary on the Republican side in 16 than the last 2.
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
36506 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 4:10 pm to
I really don't know much about Cruz, but my initial reaction is that I don't like him.

Know nothing about Rubio.

Paul interests me because he has some Libertarian leanings, but is still center-right enough to pull the base. A lot of the Libertarian platform is heavily influenced by classical liberalism, and those are some of the most attractive parts.
Posted by rootisback
Member since Mar 2014
3371 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 4:13 pm to
quote:

Hillary has her own struggles to overcome. She isn't super likeable and extremely well known. It's going to be very hard to build any positive momentum. Assuming she isn't opposed for the primary, she'll be trying to really ramp up her campaign where the GOP candidate will already be in full swing campaign mode. I'm not ready to assume her the winner yet. But the fact that she swallows has to be a plus...but Im not sure anyone cares.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67021 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 4:16 pm to
Hillary will be the dem nominee.
I'm not sure who the republican will be yet as they have a very deep field of talented challengers, none of whom will make it past Super Tuesday (except for maybe Walker). My vote will go to Rand, but the nominee will likely bee Jeb, Rubio, Walker (assuming he doesn't completely f&%k this up or get torn down by a scandal), or some late entrant we don't even know about yet.
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
36506 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 4:18 pm to
Hillary is an evil bitch.
Posted by Rebel Land Shark
Member since Jul 2013
30163 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

Hillary is an evil bitch


What politician isn't evil?
Posted by 3nOut
Central Texas, TX
Member since Jan 2013
28827 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 4:28 pm to
quote:

I really don't know much about Cruz, but my initial reaction is that I don't like him.




I'm kinda mixed on Cruz. Politically we line up pretty well, but I don't like the way he approaches issues. I voted for him and am happy I did still but don't think the presidency is best for him. Probably a great 2 term senator and that's it.

I won't vote for him in primaries but would in the general if he's the candidate.
Posted by rootisback
Member since Mar 2014
3371 posts
Posted on 4/13/15 at 4:40 pm to
Cruz looks like a shriveled up vag...not that Ive ever seen one...just heard about them...looking like Ted Cruz and all that... sorry, phone is ringing, gotta go....
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