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re: Prop A
Posted on 7/26/18 at 8:32 am to Wtodd
Posted on 7/26/18 at 8:32 am to Wtodd
quote:
Unions have served their purpose
Word up W. Every industry is so heavily regulated by the feds now (for better or worse) that there is no way working conditions in this country to deteriorate to where they were in the past. They've outlived their usefulness.
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Posted on 7/26/18 at 9:59 am to Tackle74
quote:
All those hating unions do not understand history, study the 1800's and pre-Union workforce.
Agree, but there's a lot of misunderstanding. It's about quality of work, that's why it's good for crafts and trades. You have to go thru an apprenticeship. Far fewer lawsuits for shabby, faulty, or flim flam man workmanship.
Did you know the Duck boat designer didn't have any engineering training? And the design flaw was not properly venting the exhaust, which flooded the engine.
Posted on 7/26/18 at 12:02 pm to Wtodd
Yes.....and wages here are terribly low. Now saying that, there are of course other factors in this area that affect those wagesbas well. I'm NOT a union guy at all either, but I have seen, at least in this immediate area, how the worker has been devalued by right to work.
Posted on 7/26/18 at 12:10 pm to kevind1965
I haven't seen any of that......maybe I'm or my where I've work is the exception tho.
Posted on 7/26/18 at 3:32 pm to Wtodd
Like others here I'm not a union guy, and for the life of me I can't think of anybody I'm close with that would be in a union.
Isn't the difference on pay/benefits just from a construction or trade job pretty significant between Missouri and RtW States (like Florida)? To the amounts where its 10s of thousands of dollars?
Isn't the difference on pay/benefits just from a construction or trade job pretty significant between Missouri and RtW States (like Florida)? To the amounts where its 10s of thousands of dollars?
Posted on 7/30/18 at 3:56 pm to Stlox
Just because you vote "yes" for Right to Work doesn't mean the unions immediately disband and become void. They simply are going to be held accountable, which every entity should.
Furthermore, regarding training, they won't stop. By the way, you don't need a union to get trained in just about every trade I know of. Non-union shops are training young people all the time. Then, they have to take the same licensing tests as those in the union.
Furthermore, regarding training, they won't stop. By the way, you don't need a union to get trained in just about every trade I know of. Non-union shops are training young people all the time. Then, they have to take the same licensing tests as those in the union.
Posted on 7/31/18 at 10:31 am to kevind1965
quote:
Those forced union dues are also helping keep wages and benefits at a reasonably competitive level. Right to work really just means the right to work for peanuts with no benefits or protections. Right to work sets workers back over a hundred years. Due your research and look at the dismal results to workers in other states that have passed it.
lol....This isnt the 1930s anymore.
Posted on 7/31/18 at 10:35 am to stltigerfan
quote:
'm in the UAW and our Union is far from what it used to be. All the UAW is now is a business feeding off its members. It's pretty bad when our international reps are going around telling the locals to use scare tactics on the membership to vote yes on the first and worst deal during contract negotions. Or when the UAW refuses to strike because they have stocks heavily invested in GM.
This sums up the current state of unions well. The days of unions created to protect the safety of workers is long gone. Government regulations now insure it for everyone and the companies that put employees at risk get punished by the courts appropriately. OSHA applies to everyone (other than public employees).
Posted on 7/31/18 at 12:12 pm to notsince98
The biggest difference between workers in RTW and non-RTW states is the fact that workers in non-RTW states are more than twice as likely (2.4 times) to be in a union or protected by a union contract. Average hourly wages, the primary variable of interest, are 15.8 percent higher in non-RTW states ($23.93 in non-RTW states versus $20.66 in RTW states).5 Median wages are 16.6 percent higher in non-RTW states ($18.40 vs. $15.79).
Research is all over the place and irrefutable about benefits and wages in RTW vs Non-RTW states. If you see the facts and do not adhere to them then you are a fool or a masochist. I am not a libtard but have taught economics for 25+ years. Facts are facts.
Research is all over the place and irrefutable about benefits and wages in RTW vs Non-RTW states. If you see the facts and do not adhere to them then you are a fool or a masochist. I am not a libtard but have taught economics for 25+ years. Facts are facts.
Posted on 7/31/18 at 3:32 pm to Tackle74
quote:
Research is all over the place and irrefutable about benefits and wages in RTW vs Non-RTW states. If you see the facts and do not adhere to them then you are a fool or a masochist. I am not a libtard but have taught economics for 25+ years. Facts are facts.
and most have been debunked as hogwash. You have cali and other union places with asinine costs of living bringing the numbers up and then places where they have RTW but extremely low costs of living bring the RTW numbers down.
The unions are nothing but corruption at this point. People should be free to be in a union or not and it should have no bearing on their ability to work. It is sad people still want to force their ideals on others these days. Individual freedoms get no respect.
Posted on 7/31/18 at 5:51 pm to notsince98
quote:
and most have been debunked as hogwash
facts baw there are study after study that even taking out cost of living that RTW states are behind.
Posted on 7/31/18 at 7:40 pm to Tackle74
William J. Moore, “The Determinants and Effects of Right-to-Work Laws: A Review of the Recent Literature,” Journal of Labor Research, No. 19 (Summer 1998), pp. 445–469,
W. Robert Reed, “How Right-to-Work Laws Affect Wages,” Journal of Labor Research, Vol. 24, No. 4 (October 2003), pp. 713–730.
There’s a couple studies for you.
Union dues are higher in non-right-to-work states. And union officials have much higher salaries in non-right-to-work states.
Comparing right to work with non right to work states is comparing wages in the south to wages in the non-South. The south has a far lower cost of living. The purchasing power for the average worker in the South is at par or higher than an average worker in other states. I’m sure you knew that, though.
W. Robert Reed, “How Right-to-Work Laws Affect Wages,” Journal of Labor Research, Vol. 24, No. 4 (October 2003), pp. 713–730.
There’s a couple studies for you.
Union dues are higher in non-right-to-work states. And union officials have much higher salaries in non-right-to-work states.
Comparing right to work with non right to work states is comparing wages in the south to wages in the non-South. The south has a far lower cost of living. The purchasing power for the average worker in the South is at par or higher than an average worker in other states. I’m sure you knew that, though.
Posted on 8/1/18 at 6:06 am to the808bass
quote:
I’m sure you knew that, though.
Don't assume nothing brah
Posted on 8/1/18 at 9:03 am to SEC. 593
I manage a 10 state territory for a very large hardware manufacturer. When I am in RTW states I see business everywhere. Indiana is a great example.
When I am in Union states I see a lot of empty space needing redevelopment. Missouri is a great example.
So, RTW = more jobs as I see it. Unions had their chance and were important when my Dad was starting out. Today their greed and bullishness has pushed them into a corner.
Oh, And I love the loyal union members who are staunchly against RTW but very willing to paint my house on the weekend costing their unions brothers work.
Unions have jumped the shark. We will be voting for Prop A.
When I am in Union states I see a lot of empty space needing redevelopment. Missouri is a great example.
So, RTW = more jobs as I see it. Unions had their chance and were important when my Dad was starting out. Today their greed and bullishness has pushed them into a corner.
Oh, And I love the loyal union members who are staunchly against RTW but very willing to paint my house on the weekend costing their unions brothers work.
Unions have jumped the shark. We will be voting for Prop A.
This post was edited on 8/1/18 at 9:04 am
Posted on 8/1/18 at 11:03 am to Ridgewalker
Very true... I know tons of union guys who are happy to do side work, even in other trades, which would cost others work.
That said, as I said above, I don't have anything against them. But they obviously can be as corrupt as any other business or organization. To mandate someone must join one in order to secure a job is inherently un-American to me. If the union is doing its job, and protecting those its says it will, people will pay their dues. If they don't get anything out of it, they won't. That's only right...
One last point: Yes, economic growth is stronger in RTW states for a reason. In this economy where it's easier to move than ever before, business doesn't want to work with many difficult unions. They'll move elsewhere in a friendlier environment.
Take my company for example. We host trade shows all across the country. We purposefully avoid union strongholds like Chicago because of the unions. They're so oppressive that its decreases the efficiency of our shows, and dramatically increases the expense. We take our business elsewhere.
That said, as I said above, I don't have anything against them. But they obviously can be as corrupt as any other business or organization. To mandate someone must join one in order to secure a job is inherently un-American to me. If the union is doing its job, and protecting those its says it will, people will pay their dues. If they don't get anything out of it, they won't. That's only right...
One last point: Yes, economic growth is stronger in RTW states for a reason. In this economy where it's easier to move than ever before, business doesn't want to work with many difficult unions. They'll move elsewhere in a friendlier environment.
Take my company for example. We host trade shows all across the country. We purposefully avoid union strongholds like Chicago because of the unions. They're so oppressive that its decreases the efficiency of our shows, and dramatically increases the expense. We take our business elsewhere.
Posted on 8/1/18 at 11:39 am to House77
quote:
ery true... I know tons of union guys who are happy to do side work, even in other trades, which would cost others work.
That said, as I said above, I don't have anything against them. But they obviously can be as corrupt as any other business or organization. To mandate someone must join one in order to secure a job is inherently un-American to me. If the union is doing its job, and protecting those its says it will, people will pay their dues. If they don't get anything out of it, they won't. That's only right...
One last point: Yes, economic growth is stronger in RTW states for a reason. In this economy where it's easier to move than ever before, business doesn't want to work with many difficult unions. They'll move elsewhere in a friendlier environment.
Take my company for example. We host trade shows all across the country. We purposefully avoid union strongholds like Chicago because of the unions. They're so oppressive that its decreases the efficiency of our shows, and dramatically increases the expense. We take our business elsewhere.
Ding ding ding.
And if you breakdown the wage argument:
LINK
quote:
Unions have responded with empirical research finding right-to-work states have lower wages. However, this research used statistically biased methods to control for costs of living. Correcting this reveals right-to-work laws have little effect on private-sector wages. Controlling for other factors, right-to-work states also have 1.3 percentage point lower unemployment rates than non-right-to-work states. Unions do not provide economic benefits that justify forcing workers to pay their dues.
Posted on 8/1/18 at 6:46 pm to House77
quote:
We host trade shows all across the country. We purposefully avoid union strongholds like Chicago because of the unions.
I love paying $400 for simply moving my container from the loading dock to my exhibit spot. What’s wrong with you? You don’t?
Posted on 8/1/18 at 7:17 pm to the808bass
Not reading all of these. Just a quick question because political talk tends to get ugly. Is it all friendly or has it turned ugly? In other words, let it keep running or delete it? Literally haven't read a post so don't know.
Posted on 8/1/18 at 8:20 pm to reedus23
U should delete it. Although i have a strong opinion on how i’m voting, this is not the forum for politics. That’s what facebook and twitter already do.
Posted on 8/1/18 at 8:22 pm to reedus23
I don’t thinks anyone has gotten ugly. Civil discourse. Carry on Reedus. ??
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