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re: Frank Martin Bitching
Posted on 3/27/19 at 2:18 pm to I Bleed Garnet
Posted on 3/27/19 at 2:18 pm to I Bleed Garnet
If Frank wants to teach life lessons how about start by teaching self responsibility.
He has blamed the fans, Tanner and the school administration because HE failed to get the team into a post season tournament . When will HE accept that this is his failure not ours. So hell no I wouldn't want my child being taught how not to accept blame.
I'm pissed off because we went 15-16 and our coach is blaming everyone but the OBVIOUS.
He has blamed the fans, Tanner and the school administration because HE failed to get the team into a post season tournament . When will HE accept that this is his failure not ours. So hell no I wouldn't want my child being taught how not to accept blame.
I'm pissed off because we went 15-16 and our coach is blaming everyone but the OBVIOUS.
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Posted on 3/27/19 at 2:29 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
Our first 13 games were against extremely weak opponents that year.
Like I mentioned, it wasn't our fault that Clemson, St John's, and Memphis were all garbage that year.
quote:
We lost to a horrible Georgia team not once but 3 times.
Went 0-1 in sec tourny losing to sorry Georgi
While true, this was part of my original Martin critiques. Inexplicable losses. Still shouldn't have put us behind Vandy.
quote:
Went 1-1 in the NIT.
Who care about this? Obviously has not effect on the NCAA tournament selection and how often do 1 seeds even win that thing? Especially from P5 conferences. I'd wager most don't give a shite because they feel they're in the wrong tournament.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 2:41 pm to theGarnetWay
"Like I mentioned, it wasn't our fault that Clemson, St John's, and Memphis were all garbage that year. "
You're correct it wasn't our fault they were all garbage but doesn't change the fact that they were part of a bunch of garbage teams that we padded our resume with.
I just pointed out that a team that is " ncaa worthy" should win more then 1 game in a lower secondary tournament.
Right or wrong the committee left us out. We are 3 seasons past that point and looking at the last 2 we are doing the same thing in basketball, not building off the final 4 run, that our football program did after the 11 win seasons.
Say you're right and that Frank did get screwed over the 2015-16 season. Does that give him reasons to complain about no support for a 15-16 season?
You're correct it wasn't our fault they were all garbage but doesn't change the fact that they were part of a bunch of garbage teams that we padded our resume with.
I just pointed out that a team that is " ncaa worthy" should win more then 1 game in a lower secondary tournament.
Right or wrong the committee left us out. We are 3 seasons past that point and looking at the last 2 we are doing the same thing in basketball, not building off the final 4 run, that our football program did after the 11 win seasons.
Say you're right and that Frank did get screwed over the 2015-16 season. Does that give him reasons to complain about no support for a 15-16 season?
Posted on 3/27/19 at 2:46 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
I just pointed out that a team that is " ncaa worthy" should win more then 1 game in a lower secondary tournament.
I wouldn’t say this is true.
The ncaa tournament isn’t the 68 best teams in the country.
Winning the NIT doesn’t mean you deserved an NCAA bid either
Posted on 3/27/19 at 2:53 pm to I Bleed Garnet
Thats why i stipulated "ncaa worthy". A team that is no question ncaa team should be capable of winning more then 1 nit game.
Still does that one year of possibly being screwed over give him justification for blaming others that his 15-16 team didn't get in?
Still does that one year of possibly being screwed over give him justification for blaming others that his 15-16 team didn't get in?
Posted on 3/27/19 at 3:20 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
Thats why i stipulated "ncaa worthy". A team that is no question ncaa team should be capable of winning more then 1 nit game.
Still does that one year of possibly being screwed over give him justification for blaming others that his 15-16 team didn't get in?
It’s really odd.
Does it give him justification to be this bad?
No.
Did i hope we’d be good after the final four run? Yes.
Last year shocked me, i thought we’d be better
This year did as well. We finished 4th in the conference with 4 teams in the sweet 16
I think frank went too crazy OOC this year.
15-16 was dog shite. This season OOC was very tough.
This post was edited on 3/27/19 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 3/27/19 at 3:24 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
Thats why i stipulated "ncaa worthy". A team that is no question ncaa team should be capable of winning more then 1 nit game.
Capable, yes. Willing? No. Again, just looking at recent results only 1 P5 team won the NIT as a 1-seed in the last 10 years because any P5 team that is a 1-seed in the NIT isn't going to give a shite because they're too disappointed about being in the Big Dance.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 3:28 pm to theGarnetWay
You also are going to see now days more and more of those teams with draft players sit it out.
Daniel Gafford is a projected first rounder who declared and hired an agent before his teams NIT game
Daniel Gafford is a projected first rounder who declared and hired an agent before his teams NIT game
Posted on 3/27/19 at 3:29 pm to I Bleed Garnet
Wyoming, okie state, stoney brook are not heavy weights. Those 3 right there are around 24% of our ooc schedule.
Wofford and Michigan were, imo, our toughest ooc teams.
Here is what bothers me. If you recall at the beggining of the season Frank was sitting back and letting the players " learn lessons" instead of coaching lessons. So it's possible that his " life lessons" cost him ooc games and in the end a post season play.
Wofford and Michigan were, imo, our toughest ooc teams.
Here is what bothers me. If you recall at the beggining of the season Frank was sitting back and letting the players " learn lessons" instead of coaching lessons. So it's possible that his " life lessons" cost him ooc games and in the end a post season play.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 3:45 pm to SOSFAN
We played UVA too.
Those 3 games we lost were the ones i said we shouldn’t have lost.
And I’ve had enough of the “takes our players time to get acclimated”
The frick that supposed to mean when we had a pretty seasoned team to most of the conference.
Really good players are good from the beginning on. Lawson did that.
PJ was, same with Sin. frick even Bruce Ellington was
Pretty simple, we weren’t that talented.
Our “leader” isn’t an NBA player. I do think our most talented is Lawson and at best he’s a 2nd round pick. Face it if you last more than 2 years in college now days you’re not really that good
Those 3 games we lost were the ones i said we shouldn’t have lost.
And I’ve had enough of the “takes our players time to get acclimated”
The frick that supposed to mean when we had a pretty seasoned team to most of the conference.
Really good players are good from the beginning on. Lawson did that.
PJ was, same with Sin. frick even Bruce Ellington was
Pretty simple, we weren’t that talented.
Our “leader” isn’t an NBA player. I do think our most talented is Lawson and at best he’s a 2nd round pick. Face it if you last more than 2 years in college now days you’re not really that good
This post was edited on 3/27/19 at 3:48 pm
Posted on 3/27/19 at 4:49 pm to I Bleed Garnet
Forgot about Virgina.
Who's fault is it that we are not that talented?
Fan's because they don't pack the house even if we are losing to augusta college?
Tanner and USC for not promoting our program, including fighting for post season play and marketing through social media?
Or
Frank Martin, the guy being paid over $2 million a year to produce a winning product?
There can be an argument for issues with all 3 but I say that #1 and #2 needs #3 to happen first.
Who's fault is it that we are not that talented?
Fan's because they don't pack the house even if we are losing to augusta college?
Tanner and USC for not promoting our program, including fighting for post season play and marketing through social media?
Or
Frank Martin, the guy being paid over $2 million a year to produce a winning product?
There can be an argument for issues with all 3 but I say that #1 and #2 needs #3 to happen first.
This post was edited on 3/27/19 at 4:51 pm
Posted on 3/27/19 at 8:37 pm to SOSFAN
I’m all for piling it on Tanner, even if Frank is being a bit unfair here.
Successful ADs are cutthroat business-oriented individuals who lobby for their school at every turn. Yes, our team didn’t really deserve the NIT, but I have to believe Frank for saying Tanner could’ve probably done more.
Ever since that embarrassing excuse of a Final Four banner ceremony, I think it’s obvious Frank has felt slighted by the AD, and justifiably so. The marketing for the program since 2017 has also been nearly non-existent IMO. And while it may be a bit far-fetched, I truly believe Bowen would’ve miraculously been approved to play by the NCAA if he had gone to Auburn or Tennessee.
Tanner isn’t to blame for Frank’s failures in recruiting or his on-court demeanor, but I’d rather keep Frank as HC than Tanner as AD. We’ve regressed in every major program since Tanner took over (WBB is the exception), and that falls on Ray.
Successful ADs are cutthroat business-oriented individuals who lobby for their school at every turn. Yes, our team didn’t really deserve the NIT, but I have to believe Frank for saying Tanner could’ve probably done more.
Ever since that embarrassing excuse of a Final Four banner ceremony, I think it’s obvious Frank has felt slighted by the AD, and justifiably so. The marketing for the program since 2017 has also been nearly non-existent IMO. And while it may be a bit far-fetched, I truly believe Bowen would’ve miraculously been approved to play by the NCAA if he had gone to Auburn or Tennessee.
Tanner isn’t to blame for Frank’s failures in recruiting or his on-court demeanor, but I’d rather keep Frank as HC than Tanner as AD. We’ve regressed in every major program since Tanner took over (WBB is the exception), and that falls on Ray.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 9:12 pm to Bluefin
I agree that our athletic program has been going down hill and Tanner should take heat for that.
What argument could Tanner have made to get a 15-16 team into the NIT? Would have been embarrassing and a waste of time.
I disagree about Bowen playing anywhere. He was the main player implicated in a FBI probe and way to radioactive for any school.
Personally I don't see next year being loads better without an inside game but part of me wants Frank to stay and the business part of me is saying he has alienated the fans and now Tanner so how beneficial is it to keep him.
What argument could Tanner have made to get a 15-16 team into the NIT? Would have been embarrassing and a waste of time.
I disagree about Bowen playing anywhere. He was the main player implicated in a FBI probe and way to radioactive for any school.
Personally I don't see next year being loads better without an inside game but part of me wants Frank to stay and the business part of me is saying he has alienated the fans and now Tanner so how beneficial is it to keep him.
Posted on 3/27/19 at 10:08 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
What argument could Tanner have made to get a 15-16 team into the NIT? Would have been embarrassing and a waste of time.
Technically we were 16-16, so I guess the argument would be that teams with similar overall records, some of which we beat, were invited over us.
I wouldn’t say we deserved it more than those teams, but I took Frank’s comments to mean that our AD didn’t even attempt to try to lobby anyone - that a case wasn’t even made to put forth. To me, it’s way more embarrassing that our AD didn’t give a shite enough to even try, than it is to try and get rejected. You want your AD to back-up it’s programs no matter what.
And one side I think we’re all forgetting here - is think back to December. Many of us were certain that we’d be lucky to win 7 games this year. I legitimately thought we were going to finish dead last in the SEC, but instead we finished .500 and on the cusp of an NIT bid. I think that’s what Frank has a valid gripe about.
Yes, we were predicted to do terribly because Frank’s recruiting has been shite, but he’s obviously a very good coach that can get the best out of inferior talent.
Again, I’m firmly in the Fire Tanner camp. I’d rather our AD pull out whatever stops we can to help Frank get good kids to Columbia than just getting rid of him and starting over.
This post was edited on 3/27/19 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 3/28/19 at 5:18 am to Bluefin
quote:
Technically we were 16-16, so I guess the argument would be that teams with similar overall records, some of which we beat, were invited over us.
Yes but for NIT consideration we were 15-16
Because one game was against a D2 opponent
Posted on 3/28/19 at 7:04 am to Bluefin
Not sure how Tanner can help a coach that doesn't like playing the aau game in recruiting plus we have Senator/Pastor Daryl Jackson's son pushing all the top players away from SC.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 8:28 am to SOSFAN
quote:
Not sure how Tanner can help a coach that doesn't like playing the aau game in recruiting plus we have Senator/Pastor Daryl Jackson's son pushing all the top players away from SC.
The dirty thing is whatever
Some guys just don't like doing it, okay I get it
We also are a school who invests more in football.
But when you say the "AAU game"
is he legitimately not going to AAU tourneys to recruit? or summer camps etc?
It's actually quite ridiculous now how HS's are getting, I know they aren't getting that way in the Carolinas, as it still seems to be the same public and private schools.
But around the country you are getting these massive "charter schools" that are basically AAU teams and recruit like that (think Oak Hill but more)
This post was edited on 3/28/19 at 8:32 am
Posted on 3/28/19 at 11:59 am to I Bleed Garnet
quote:
Yes but for NIT consideration we were 15-16
Because one game was against a D2 opponent
Is this fact? I thought the NCAA only had a D2 requirement.
Posted on 3/28/19 at 12:17 pm to Bluefin
"The NIT selection committee, like the NCAA Tournament selection committee, only counts wins and losses against Division I teams. South Carolina was shut out of the NIT last season with a 16-16 record against D-I teams. By those standards, the 2018-19 Gamecocks are 15-16 due to a win over D-II North Greenville on Dec. 31."
From the rag State paper.
From the rag State paper.
This post was edited on 3/28/19 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 3/28/19 at 12:22 pm to Bluefin
quote:
I thought the NCAA only had a D2 requirement.
NCAA owns and Runs the NIT now.
There is no "requirement" for any record. you are selected based on how the committee sees.
And there's no longer a 500 requirement for the NIT.
quote:
The NCAA announced a revamped selection process starting with the 2017 tournament. The main highlights are:
Teams are no longer required to have .500 or greater records to receive bids.
Similar to the automatic bids the NCAA Tournament grants for all conference tournament champions, all teams that won regular-season conference championships but failed to earn NCAA tournament bids are guaranteed places in the NIT.
In addition, the selection process was changed. ESPN no longer had a hand in the selection of the teams. Instead, a committee of former NCAA head coaches, chaired by Newton, and including Gene Keady (Purdue), Don DeVoe (Tennessee), Rudy Davalos, Les Robinson (NC State), Reggie Minton (Air Force), John Powers, and Carroll Williams among others, prepared a list of potential teams in advance.
I believe our record for "seeding" standards was just 15-16 had we been selected.
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