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re: Fauci: Test all the players before the game. Infected? Sorry, you’re sidelined.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:22 pm to GatorsGators
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:22 pm to GatorsGators
quote:
The reality is that this is a novel virus, and we're all in the dark to a certain extent. Saying that Fauci lied to stir up is a straight-up lie. We're going to blow by the initial 100k death estimate in about ten days, for frick's sake. Who knows how bad it would have been had we done nothing?
While this is true you will never get those who believe otherwise to agree with you. Not unless this actually does wipe out a million people in the United States, including some of their family members.
This has become a political issue. Like any good believer in a political cause they will fight to the death to support their views. Liberal or Conservative. Republican or Democrat.
Right now its the hard core Republicans digging in their heels and insisting this pandemic isn't actually dangerous. They will go to their graves insisting they are right, and if some of them catch this they might very go to those graves a bit sooner than they expected.
You cannot convince the hard core left that, as an example, Venezuela is a failure. You cannot convince the hard core right that the Coronavirus is dangerous. Its like trying to explain the Theory of Relativity to your cat. They aren't going to get it and you will just waste your time.
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Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:22 pm to 3down10
quote:
If everyone knew, then why did people constantly call me an idiot for mentioning it here?
It's the same people arguing with you on here now. I got down voted into oblivion on the Auburn board for saying the actual death was probably around .5% when in reality it's likely probably half that. People aren't going to admit they're wrong or acknowledge they holed themselves up in the house for the last 2 months for nothing or they supported policies that devastated the lives of millions of working Americans.
This post was edited on 5/12/20 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:22 pm to 3down10
quote:
So how did I magically know what the real rate was months in advance?
Just luck?
No, I read other sources that talked about the rates in other places of the world.
You do realize those rates don't account for socioeconomic, societal, behavioral, etc. variables that would change the mortality rate from country to country? They look at a host of variables to predict potential mortality rates. Which is why they get adjusted once things occur.
quote:
Btw, speaking of policy. They give hospitals money for anyone who goes onto a ventilator with Covid, even though 90% or more of those people die. Why aren't these experts realizing that the reason they suffocate isn't due to the inability to get oxygen in their lungs, which ventilators do help with, but rather because the virus strips the hemoglobin of the iron isotopes needed to carry the oxygen and Co2 out of the lungs? It doesn't matter how much air/oxygen your lungs get if your blood isn't able to carry it to your body. You will die in hours, and they do.
So tell me why are these experts pushing and paying for things that aren't helping patients and could be causing more damage?
That information also is not new, I read it months ago.
What's the mortality rate for other conditions that typically end up on a ventilator? Typically mechanical ventilation is used in severe cases where I imagine mortality rates without are not exactly low.
But I find it interesting that you apparently had all of the answers that countless medical professionals did not well ahead of this.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:23 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Show me an expert and there will likely be a fair group of people who disagree with him/her. That's not exactly uncommon in the scientific field, even for highly decorated/recognized scientists.
Glad you agree. If one leading expert is saying we have to stay closed and destroy the economy, amd the other says we can safely open up...im gonna go with the one that doesnt want to destroy the economy
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:25 pm to chateaublanc
quote:
Glad you agree. If one leading expert is saying we have to stay closed and destroy the economy, amd the other says we can safely open up...im gonna go with the one that doesnt want to destroy the economy
Eh, I tend to go with the notion that the economy was going to take a hit on either end of it if projections of potential mortality rates and infection spread without any preventative measures were accurate. We could've ended up with a very sick workforce where production would take a hit.
It is entirely possible to believe we should've had preventative measures but should also begin to open things back up and maybe even disagree with how things were handled.
This post was edited on 5/12/20 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:27 pm to Arksulli
quote:
While this is true you will never get those who believe otherwise to agree with you. Not unless this actually does wipe out a million people in the United States, including some of their family members.
This has become a political issue. Like any good believer in a political cause they will fight to the death to support their views. Liberal or Conservative. Republican or Democrat.
Right now its the hard core Republicans digging in their heels and insisting this pandemic isn't actually dangerous. They will go to their graves insisting they are right, and if some of them catch this they might very go to those graves a bit sooner than they expected.
You cannot convince the hard core left that, as an example, Venezuela is a failure. You cannot convince the hard core right that the Coronavirus is dangerous. Its like trying to explain the Theory of Relativity to your cat. They aren't going to get it and you will just waste your time.
Good god it’s refreshing to read something like this. Nothing crazy, no hot takes, just a simple acknowledgment that both sides are irrational in today’s climate. Do moderates still exist or has the concept become a fairytale?
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:28 pm to Arksulli
quote:
While this is true you will never get those who believe otherwise to agree with you. Not unless this actually does wipe out a million people in the United States, including some of their family members.
This has become a political issue. Like any good believer in a political cause they will fight to the death to support their views. Liberal or Conservative. Republican or Democrat.
Right now its the hard core Republicans digging in their heels and insisting this pandemic isn't actually dangerous. They will go to their graves insisting they are right, and if some of them catch this they might very go to those graves a bit sooner than they expected.
You cannot convince the hard core left that, as an example, Venezuela is a failure. You cannot convince the hard core right that the Coronavirus is dangerous. Its like trying to explain the Theory of Relativity to your cat. They aren't going to get it and you will just waste your time.
False, I am not politically motivated at all. I do not vote, I do not take part in the process at all, and I generally do my best to ignore the politics of it.
My interest in the topic is solely because I'm living through it and I want to know the truth.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:29 pm to 3down10
The issue here is that you're looking at mortality rate as a fixed number that we should have been able to discover without any data instead of a variable that was constantly changing because our data was extremely limited and, yes, flawed.
The high mortality rate in Italy wasn't false. It simply gauged the percentage of the number of people who had died from the virus to the number of people who had been confirmed positive, which yes, was always going to drop with increased testing.
And I missed where Fauci officially predicted a death toll of 2.2 million. I did see where he said that death toll was an unlikelihood but not an impossibility, while cautioning people not too hung up on the moving target. Those aren't close to the same, and to equate them is incredibly insidious.
The high mortality rate in Italy wasn't false. It simply gauged the percentage of the number of people who had died from the virus to the number of people who had been confirmed positive, which yes, was always going to drop with increased testing.
And I missed where Fauci officially predicted a death toll of 2.2 million. I did see where he said that death toll was an unlikelihood but not an impossibility, while cautioning people not too hung up on the moving target. Those aren't close to the same, and to equate them is incredibly insidious.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:32 pm to 3down10
I think it was pretty clear he was directing that quote at the general public, not you in particular. It has absolutely become a political issue.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:37 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Eh, I tend to go with the notion that the economy was going to take a hit on either end of it if projections of potential mortality rates and infection spread without any preventative measures were accurate
We already know what no measures looks like. Just take a look at December through mid march. There was zero disruption
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:44 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
You do realize those rates don't account for socioeconomic, societal, behavioral, etc. variables that would change the mortality rate from country to country? They look at a host of variables to predict potential mortality rates. Which is why they get adjusted once things occur.
I'm not sure why you are mentioning those variables, since they didn't take ANY of them into account. They used a very simple math formula. # of deaths divided by number of confirmed cases * 100.
All I did was add in 80% more cases that were likely happening that weren't "confirmed" to get the real number. Same exact formula, I just used real data since I just wanted to know the truth.
And once again I said nothing about predicted rates. I'm talking about the numbers they reported on deaths and cases that already happened.
Those numbers were false for all countries regardless of the variables you mention because again, they are not taken into account.
Well, except Germany who didn't turn this into a political issue. They did far more testing and had a much lower rate as a result.
quote:
What's the mortality rate for other conditions that typically end up on a ventilator? Typically mechanical ventilation is used in severe cases where I imagine mortality rates without are not exactly low.
Less than 50%, but not much less.
quote:
But I find it interesting that you apparently had all of the answers that countless medical professionals did not well ahead of this.
I wouldn't call it interesting, I think it's downright scary.
That said, lots of medical professionals did and do know all these things. In many cases, they are my first sources. I found out about the ventilators and hemoglobin stuff from doctors who were treating covid patients. Believe it or not, many of them actually talk to each other on forums like this. They didn't give a frick about the politics and just wanted to find a way to help people.
The full discussion about the ventilators and the hemoglobin was based around treatment. They found success with drugs like the malaria drug because malaria works by attacking the hemoglobin also. The downside is the side effects of such drugs.
There was much more they talked about that I didn't understand in terms of how patients deteriorate. But I did understand that once their blood is infected enough, the process happens extremely quick.
Meanwhile, #1 reason for the shutdown? High mortality rate and lack of ventilators. All the while, we are all going to get it at some point. Pretty sure I've already had it personally and that I am among the "unconfirmed" cases.
But yeah, I just need to trust these people. I don't.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:52 pm to chateaublanc
quote:
We already know what no measures looks like. Just take a look at December through mid march. There was zero disruption
Eh. Assuming that potential "flu" cases were actually some COVID cases, hospitals were seeing a bigger wave of flu hospitalizations then normal this year (that was reported by several outlets). I know on the school level we saw a longer, heavier flu season as well but can't speak for everywhere.
I know for myself, I got sick in late January/February and had what was diagnosed as "acute bronchitis" for almost 4 weeks. I was never hospitalized but I was pretty much coming home from work and going to bed for a good two week period and had to use an inhaler for the first time in 10 years. Was it COVID? Maybe. I work with kids that traveled out of the country, even to China and back. I had to take off a few days.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:54 pm to GatorsGators
quote:
The issue here is that you're looking at mortality rate as a fixed number that we should have been able to discover without any data instead of a variable that was constantly changing because our data was extremely limited and, yes, flawed.
No I'm not.
I looked at the formula and the data used for the formula. At no point was it even remotely suggest the number should be fixed and never change.
I'm telling you the formula and data they used to get those numbers is the problem. It was a known problem and it was ignored to promote an agenda.
quote:
The high mortality rate in Italy wasn't false. It simply gauged the percentage of the number of people who had died from the virus to the number of people who had been confirmed positive, which yes, was always going to drop with increased testing.
You said 10%. That number is false.
quote:
And I missed where Fauci officially predicted a death toll of 2.2 million. I did see where he said that death toll was an unlikelihood but not an impossibility, while cautioning people not too hung up on the moving target. Those aren't close to the same, and to equate them is incredibly insidious.
Well you can say all that, but what I remember was 2.2 million when being used to justify the shutdown, and then lots and lots of hedging after.
Another person on this forum was claiming 500k.
If they had been saying 100k from the start, the country never would have reacted the way it did. PERIOD.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 12:57 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Eh. Assuming that potential "flu" cases were actually some COVID cases, hospitals were seeing a bigger wave of flu hospitalizations then normal this year (that was reported by several outlets). I know on the school level we saw a longer, heavier flu season as well but can't speak for everywhere.
Nope. They test for flu and the illnesses were described as unidentified non-flu illness. It's why many people wonder if the virus hadn't been here for longer than reported. Many people have experienced a mystery virus that came back negative for flu and strep going back to December.
I myself had some really mean virus back in Feb. Same symptoms as the coronavirus, but not sure if it actually was. I stayed in bed for multiple days.
They did not and do not report those as flu.
quote:
I know for myself, I got sick in late January/February and had what was diagnosed as "acute bronchitis" for almost 4 weeks. I was never hospitalized but I was pretty much coming home from work and going to bed for a good two week period and had to use an inhaler for the first time in 10 years. Was it COVID? Maybe. I work with kids that traveled out of the country, even to China and back. I had to tak
Could have been. Only way to know is to get the antibody tests.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 1:13 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Eh. Assuming that potential "flu" cases were actually some COVID cases, hospitals were seeing a bigger wave of flu hospitalizations then normal this year (that was reported by several outlets). I know on the school level we saw a longer, heavier flu season as well but can't speak for everywhere.
Covid was definitely here around new years. There is no doubt about it. Hospitals werent overrun.
quote:
I know for myself, I got sick in late January/February and had what was diagnosed as "acute bronchitis" for almost 4 weeks. I was never hospitalized but I was pretty much coming home from work and going to bed for a good two week period and had to use an inhaler for the first time in 10 years. Was it COVID? Maybe. I work with kids that traveled out of the country, even to China and back. I had to take off a few days.
Id bet $1000 I got covid in January. You probably had it. We had no treatments, no distancing, no testing....and hospitals werent overrun.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 1:30 pm to Arksulli
quote:I can't argue with any of this.
While this is true you will never get those who believe otherwise to agree with you. Not unless this actually does wipe out a million people in the United States, including some of their family members.
This has become a political issue. Like any good believer in a political cause they will fight to the death to support their views. Liberal or Conservative. Republican or Democrat.
Right now its the hard core Republicans digging in their heels and insisting this pandemic isn't actually dangerous. They will go to their graves insisting they are right, and if some of them catch this they might very go to those graves a bit sooner than they expected.
You cannot convince the hard core left that, as an example, Venezuela is a failure. You cannot convince the hard core right that the Coronavirus is dangerous. Its like trying to explain the Theory of Relativity to your cat. They aren't going to get it and you will just waste your time.
Horseshoe theory is real
Posted on 5/12/20 at 1:40 pm to GatorsGators
quote:
This has become a political issue.
Unfortunately, this could have and should have been avoided.
People blamed Bush for his response to Katrina, but no one denied the existence of the hurricane or downplayed its damage.
Things will always be politicized, but it has gone too far this time. There are far too many people genuinely buying some of the conspiracy theories, and I think things are going to get a lot worse in some of the red states.
Fortunately SEC and university leadership is, for the most part, more intelligent than your average SEC rant poster and will make a good decision regarding football. I hope we can see games in some manner, but it’s all outside of our control.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 1:41 pm to 3down10
quote:I didn't say their mortality rate is currently 10%. I said at one point, it was close.
You said 10%. That number is false.
If Tua completes his first pass as a pro, his completion percentage would be 100%. Would saying then that his completion percentage is 100% make me a liar if his next pass fell incomplete?
This post was edited on 5/12/20 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 5/12/20 at 1:43 pm to 3down10
quote:lmao
I'm telling you the formula and data they used to get those numbers is the problem. It was a known problem and it was ignored to promote an agenda.
What's the biggest reasoning the mortality rate may have been inflated for awhile? Lack of testing. Why is there a lack of testing?
Posted on 5/12/20 at 1:46 pm to GatorsGators
One of the main reasons people downplay the risk of the virus is they lack a basic understanding of probability and statistics.
Trying to explain to these people that mortality rate isn’t a real, physical number, but rather is just a statistical measurement is damn near impossible. They are really that thick.
Trying to explain to these people that mortality rate isn’t a real, physical number, but rather is just a statistical measurement is damn near impossible. They are really that thick.
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