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Is fan support overrated?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:33 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:33 pm
One thing that fascinates me about college football is how some programs that have fans who really want to be good have shitty programs, while some programs with shitty fans but great coaches do well.
When you see programs like Tenn or Nebraska or Texas fail year after year, while programs with worse fan support like Miami, Northwestern, or Boise St do well consistently, it highlights the disconnect between want to and do.
It seems like fan support is highly overrated in the sport, and lucking out on the coach you hire or getting certain once-in-a-generation recruit can mean more than tens of thousands of butts in the seat.
Is this disconnect real, and if so why does it exist? Why doesn't fan passion and resources translate into wins? Why is luck so important?
When you see programs like Tenn or Nebraska or Texas fail year after year, while programs with worse fan support like Miami, Northwestern, or Boise St do well consistently, it highlights the disconnect between want to and do.
It seems like fan support is highly overrated in the sport, and lucking out on the coach you hire or getting certain once-in-a-generation recruit can mean more than tens of thousands of butts in the seat.
Is this disconnect real, and if so why does it exist? Why doesn't fan passion and resources translate into wins? Why is luck so important?
21
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:36 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
Is fan support overrated?
No. But its the icing on the cake. Coaching/Players are what make a team great. Fan support brings in the money and atmosphere that can help the program thrive.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:37 pm to cardboardboxer
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:38 pm to cardboardboxer
Need to narrow that list down to particular fans.
The average Joe in the seats? No, he doesn't matter.
Fans with influential checkbooks who are on board and willing to step up with whatever is needed? Absolutely vital
The average Joe in the seats? No, he doesn't matter.
Fans with influential checkbooks who are on board and willing to step up with whatever is needed? Absolutely vital
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:38 pm to cardboardboxer
Northwestern has only had 4 10 win seasons in 100 years
But anyway, leadership is everything. Not followship
But anyway, leadership is everything. Not followship
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:38 pm to cardboardboxer
I don't think the problems with those schools are related to the amount of fan support, just how toxic it is.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:40 pm to cardboardboxer
Look at Carolina. We average 80k attendance every year and never win shite.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:40 pm to UAtide11
To me that list proves my point.
Why has the #1 program in that list been average the last few years despite those resources?
Why is Texas (#2 in the list) having one shitty season after another with those resources?
Why can't Michigan buy itself some more wins with those resources? They tried and failed, but why?
Tenn is top 10 with resources and they are the poster child of this phenomenon.
Minnesota is top 20 on that list and their program is garbage. Why?
Why has the #1 program in that list been average the last few years despite those resources?
Why is Texas (#2 in the list) having one shitty season after another with those resources?
Why can't Michigan buy itself some more wins with those resources? They tried and failed, but why?
Tenn is top 10 with resources and they are the poster child of this phenomenon.
Minnesota is top 20 on that list and their program is garbage. Why?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:41 pm to Vecchio Cane
quote:
Fans with influential checkbooks who are on board and willing to step up with whatever is needed? Absolutely vital
They might be a vital part of the formula for success but they aren't the make or break factor. Otherwise how do you explain programs like Tenn or Texas having shitty seasons year after year?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:45 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
Is fan support overrated?
LSU fans think so
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Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:48 pm to cardboardboxer
Does dan support = wins, of course not.
But I’d wager you’d have a hard time bringing in high quality coaches and players if no one gave a shite. Not only would it be more difficult to sell higher pay for coaches, but also selling the program to a recruit in a small/dead stadium would be fairly difficult I’d imagine.
But I’d wager you’d have a hard time bringing in high quality coaches and players if no one gave a shite. Not only would it be more difficult to sell higher pay for coaches, but also selling the program to a recruit in a small/dead stadium would be fairly difficult I’d imagine.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:50 pm to cardboardboxer
I'd agree with icing on the cake but any wild swings plus/minus fans are very noticible to players and recruits.
Let's say your school has been rocking 90K fans/game and then it drops to 60K fans/game. Those empty spaces are seen.
Conversely, you are at a low attendance school and then the team catches fire and suddenly the stands are packed. The players can't help but notice.
But if you're asking if it makes a difference in a programs long term success, I'd doubt it.
Let's say your school has been rocking 90K fans/game and then it drops to 60K fans/game. Those empty spaces are seen.
Conversely, you are at a low attendance school and then the team catches fire and suddenly the stands are packed. The players can't help but notice.
But if you're asking if it makes a difference in a programs long term success, I'd doubt it.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:50 pm to Vecchio Cane
Good fans who support their teams and coaches are very important. Fans like Harry R. Vonner are irreplaceable. He is the perfect example of what is needed in this day and age of all the negative Nancys in the SEC fan bases.
I am proud to call that Great American my friend.
I am proud to call that Great American my friend.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:51 pm to cardboardboxer
While they have a smallish stadium, the few games I've caught when Boise State plays on the smurf turf they have had a good turn out.
Yes, their attendance is on a downturn, much like the rest of the country, but its hard to say they have bad fan support considering where they are located. They are averaging around 35k a game, in a stadium that seats 40k. That is not bad at all for a G5 team.
Northwestern never supports their team, and even when Miami was a powerhouse their stadium was half empty.
As for Nebraska, they still have great turn outs, and Pelini won over 70 percent of his games. Its just that their last coach sucked a dick. It happens.
As for Texas. God hates them.
Yes, their attendance is on a downturn, much like the rest of the country, but its hard to say they have bad fan support considering where they are located. They are averaging around 35k a game, in a stadium that seats 40k. That is not bad at all for a G5 team.
Northwestern never supports their team, and even when Miami was a powerhouse their stadium was half empty.
As for Nebraska, they still have great turn outs, and Pelini won over 70 percent of his games. Its just that their last coach sucked a dick. It happens.
As for Texas. God hates them.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:52 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
Otherwise how do you explain programs like Tenn or Texas having shitty seasons year after year?
Too many factions. Saban united all the bannermen under one crown at Bama. Those kingdoms will have to do the same.
Even at a smaller program like MSU I've seen important alums, who claim to love State, let programs and coaches fail because they didn't have enough input on the situation. Pride can be a cancerous thing
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:53 pm to Arksulli
Most important...talented players, then coaches. Fans matter, because to some degree their money gets the other two. However, Fans mean nothing without talent and coaches.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:56 pm to Vecchio Cane
quote:
Too many factions. Saban united all the bannermen under one crown at Bama. Those kingdoms will have to do the same.
Even at a smaller program like MSU I've seen important alums, who claim to love State, let programs and coaches fail because they didn't have enough input on the situation. Pride can be a cancerous thing
I agree 100%. When Mack Brown left Texas he talked about how being successful there was like if you spilled a box of BBs everywhere and you have to put them all back in the box afterwards.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:03 pm to Arksulli
quote:
As for Texas. God hates them.
Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.
- Buddha and Piggilicious
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:07 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
while programs with worse fan support like Miami, Northwestern, or Boise St do well consistently
quote:
do well consistently
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:16 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
One thing that fascinates me about college football is how some programs that have fans who really want to be good have shitty programs, while some programs with shitty fans but great coaches do well.
When you see programs like Tenn or Nebraska or Texas fail year after year, while programs with worse fan support like Miami, Northwestern, or Boise St do well consistently, it highlights the disconnect between want to and do.
It seems like fan support is highly overrated in the sport, and lucking out on the coach you hire or getting certain once-in-a-generation recruit can mean more than tens of thousands of butts in the seat.
Is this disconnect real, and if so why does it exist? Why doesn't fan passion and resources translate into wins? Why is luck so important?
Many good coaches will stay at smaller programs with good fans. Quality of life >> than bigger programs with bad fans. Your examples are good--Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern (he is an alum) and Chris Petersen stayed at their schools several years despite interest/offers from bigger programs.
Smaller programs may also be more patient where bigger programs with rabid fans may be less patient and fire coaches after just 2 or 3 seasons. Those coaches might have done well if given more time.
The advantage of the bigger programs, of course, is recruiting. Much easier to get blue chip recruits. However, because of that, bigger programs may focus on hiring recruiters more than coaches who are better at preparation and in-game coaching.
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