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re: "Arkansas can't out-Bama Bama or out-Lsu Lsu"
Posted on 5/30/14 at 8:03 am to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 5/30/14 at 8:03 am to Roger Klarvin
Bret has quietly assembled in two recruiting classes:
Brian Wallace 4* OL
Frank Ragnow 4* OL
Denver Kirkland 4* OL/Fr All-American
Dan Skipper 3* OL Fr All-American
Reeve Kohler 4* OL
Sabastian Tretola 4* OL
Alex Collins 5* Fr All-American
Hunter Henry TE 4* Fr All-American
2015-Zac Rogers 4* Center #1 rated in America
2015- Ty Storey 4* QB
2015-Jamario Bell 4* DE
2015- Halje Frohdte-4* DT
You can stick your head in the sand and talk Arkansas down, it's being built from several states, NOT Texas, Bobby Petrino recruited all over so has Bret with kids the last two years from the following., Texas,Mo,Hi,Mn,Ar,Ok,Fl,NJ,Ga
to name a few.
Brian Wallace 4* OL
Frank Ragnow 4* OL
Denver Kirkland 4* OL/Fr All-American
Dan Skipper 3* OL Fr All-American
Reeve Kohler 4* OL
Sabastian Tretola 4* OL
Alex Collins 5* Fr All-American
Hunter Henry TE 4* Fr All-American
2015-Zac Rogers 4* Center #1 rated in America
2015- Ty Storey 4* QB
2015-Jamario Bell 4* DE
2015- Halje Frohdte-4* DT
You can stick your head in the sand and talk Arkansas down, it's being built from several states, NOT Texas, Bobby Petrino recruited all over so has Bret with kids the last two years from the following., Texas,Mo,Hi,Mn,Ar,Ok,Fl,NJ,Ga
to name a few.
0
Posted on 5/30/14 at 8:21 am to Stonehog
You will try to play smash mouth run-first offense.
LSU and Bama have 10x the talent and 10x the defense and play a similar style.
Petrino was successful because he played a completely different style that offset much of the talent disparity.
LSU and Bama have 10x the talent and 10x the defense and play a similar style.
Petrino was successful because he played a completely different style that offset much of the talent disparity.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 8:24 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Arkansas' biggest problem is that without Texas and Missouri to feed them players anymore, they cant recruit for dick.
To be fair, there's no reason they could not recruit out of Texas. The state generates talent to spare.
The key is getting enough talent to make a dent in a brutal SEC West.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 8:28 am to Stonehog
From 2006-2012, 7 seasons, at Wisconsin he fielded 2 defenses in the top 25 I believe (maybe top 20 can't remember).
And he started as a defensive coordinator. To beat LSU and Bama at their own game you need a monster defense and as much talent on offense.
You have neither.
Not saying you won't get it, but the recruiting will be much tougher.
And he started as a defensive coordinator. To beat LSU and Bama at their own game you need a monster defense and as much talent on offense.
You have neither.
Not saying you won't get it, but the recruiting will be much tougher.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:00 am to TheCaterpillar
OK. I will bite. And I will quote my late grandfather who was a highly successful football coach in the state of Mississippi way back in the day...
..."Arkansas boys are long and tall
They can pick cotton but they can't play ball"
..."Arkansas boys are long and tall
They can pick cotton but they can't play ball"
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:03 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
To beat LSU and Bama at their own game you need a monster defense and as much talent on offense.
We ran for 182 yards against LSU in Bielema's first year of transitioning a passing friendly team to a downhill running team. That was with two true freshman and a walk-on starting on the OL that game. We were also two minutes away from beating them with our least talented team in the last twenty years and a defense ranked #88 overall.
I think we'll be able to compete just fine moving forward against LSU with this style of offense.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:15 am to Stonehog
1. As competitive as the West is, Arkansas will need to beat Bama or LSU, sometimes both, to ever go to Atlanta again, if that is your goal.
2. If you run the exact same style as Bama/LSU, you need the same style of players. Bama/LSU will always cherry pick the best recruits who fit the system Arky is trying to run.
3. Texas is loaded with high end spread style recruits who are currently choosing teams like Baylor. Arkansas could tap into that 7 on 7 circuit more if it ran an exciting offense.
If you define success as somewhere around what Mullen has done at MSU, you guys will be happy with BB.
2. If you run the exact same style as Bama/LSU, you need the same style of players. Bama/LSU will always cherry pick the best recruits who fit the system Arky is trying to run.
3. Texas is loaded with high end spread style recruits who are currently choosing teams like Baylor. Arkansas could tap into that 7 on 7 circuit more if it ran an exciting offense.
If you define success as somewhere around what Mullen has done at MSU, you guys will be happy with BB.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:18 am to Stonehog
I think Bielema to Arkansas will ultimately prove fine, but I don't think it makes a ton of sense for Arkansas specifically.
My reasoning is that in comparing someone like Sumlin/Gus to Bielema, you're going to get better, faster results from Sumlin/Gus. Ultimately Bielema may catch up in quality, but I don't think there is any reason to believe they'll go beyond what Sumlin or Gus will accomplish, especially considering Arkansas will always be at very best 3/4 in the west in recruiting.
So what is the benefit to going that route right now? At some point in the future these offensive minded coaches may sputter as a trend, but I don't see it happening soon.
My reasoning is that in comparing someone like Sumlin/Gus to Bielema, you're going to get better, faster results from Sumlin/Gus. Ultimately Bielema may catch up in quality, but I don't think there is any reason to believe they'll go beyond what Sumlin or Gus will accomplish, especially considering Arkansas will always be at very best 3/4 in the west in recruiting.
So what is the benefit to going that route right now? At some point in the future these offensive minded coaches may sputter as a trend, but I don't see it happening soon.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:28 am to TheCheshireHog
In order to catch LSU or Bama...
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:30 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
From 2006-2012, 7 seasons, at Wisconsin he fielded 2 defenses in the top 25 I believe (maybe top 20 can't remember).
False
2006: #4
2009: #16
2010: #21
2011: #20
2012: #13
2007: #36
2008: #31
As a reference, Petrino had a 3 year run of going 29-10 in the West. He never fielded a defense in the top 25.
LINK
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:33 am to Hawgeye
quote:
As a reference, Petrino had a 3 year run of going 29-10 in the West. He never fielded a defense in the top 25.
...and never got to Atlanta.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:36 am to Monticello
quote:
1. As competitive as the West is, Arkansas will need to beat Bama or LSU, sometimes both, to ever go to Atlanta again, if that is your goal.
Arkansas has won or shared the West 4 or 5 times. 3 times they've played in Atlanta. All of those teams were run oriented offenses.
Arkansas has never been a pass happy team, until Petrino coached here for 4 years.
quote:
2. If you run the exact same style as Bama/LSU, you need the same style of players. Bama/LSU will always cherry pick the best recruits who fit the system Arky is trying to run.
The state of Arkansas lacks on overall football talent. There are though, two positions that the state produces. Big offensive linemen and good to great running backs.
Just take a look at the offensive lines and running game under Houston Nutt, Danny Ford, Ken Hatfield, and Lou Holtz.
quote:
3. Texas is loaded with high end spread style recruits who are currently choosing teams like Baylor. Arkansas could tap into that 7 on 7 circuit more if it ran an exciting offense.
Why? Arkansas has historically had success with a run first offense. Arkansas has had success in the SEC with a run first offense.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:38 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
...and never got to Atlanta.
EXACTLY
Houston Nutt did get to Atlanta, with a run oriented offense.
Danny Ford did get to Atlanta, with a run oriented offense.
Bobby Petrino didn't get to Atlanta, with a pass heavy offense.
Thank you for proving my point.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:47 am to Monticello
quote:
3. Texas is loaded with high end spread style recruits who are currently choosing teams like Baylor. Arkansas could tap into that 7 on 7 circuit more if it ran an exciting offense.
Guess what? We have gotten plenty of QBs, RBs, and WRs from Texas since 1995. Finding offensive players isn't a problem, a good Oline and RB corp can be had just from instate talent here. High level TEs are more common than WRs from this state, and we continually produce QBs who are more of a "game manager" than a "gun slinger" from instate.
Finding offensive players is easy, they are everywhere.
Baylor does not have a good defense, TCU's defense became not so good after moving from the MWC, aTm, TTU, Texas, SMU? All bad defenses, all built with a majority of Texans on the roster. Texas is only good for producing DBs, consistently, for that side of the ball.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 9:53 am to Hawgeye
Arkansas since 2002
2002: West Champions
- #1 rushing team in SEC 223.1 yds/game
- #29 total defense in nation #7 in SEC 334.0 ypg
2003: 9 wins, 2nd in West
- #1 rushing team in SEC 241.9 yds/game
- #36 total defense in nation #6 in SEC 344.0 ypg
2006: West Champions
- #1 rushing team in SEC 216.8 yds/game
- #29 total defense in nation #6 in SEC 311.6 ypg
2002: West Champions
- #1 rushing team in SEC 223.1 yds/game
- #29 total defense in nation #7 in SEC 334.0 ypg
2003: 9 wins, 2nd in West
- #1 rushing team in SEC 241.9 yds/game
- #36 total defense in nation #6 in SEC 344.0 ypg
2006: West Champions
- #1 rushing team in SEC 216.8 yds/game
- #29 total defense in nation #6 in SEC 311.6 ypg
Posted on 5/30/14 at 10:38 am to Hawgeye
I think Petrino not getting to Atlanta is more accredited to the competition during that time. 2011 Arkansas was one of the best Arkansas teams I've seen. It was just bad luck that 2011 Bama and LSU also fielded one of their best teams as well that year
Posted on 5/30/14 at 10:43 am to LSUsuperfresh
quote:
I think Petrino not getting to Atlanta is more accredited to the competition during that time. 2011 Arkansas was one of the best Arkansas teams I've seen. It was just bad luck that 2011 Bama and LSU also fielded one of their best teams as well that year
2011 teams was good, may have been one of the best you have seen, but was not the best since we entered the SEC, let alone in our history. That team didn't just lose to Bama and LSU, they were destroyed in those games.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 10:45 am to DaleDenton
Also the 2010 team scored 40+ points and still lost by several touchdowns to Auburn, that is Bayloresque right there, still lost to a mediocre Bama team, at home, that season.
Everyone focuses on the offense, but it is the defense that matters, you can't outscore everyone in the SEC, many games you have to prevent the other team from scoring to win.
Everyone focuses on the offense, but it is the defense that matters, you can't outscore everyone in the SEC, many games you have to prevent the other team from scoring to win.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 10:45 am to Hawgeye
quote:
The state of Arkansas lacks on overall football talent. There are though, two positions that the state produces. Big offensive linemen and good to great running backs.
You forgot one...
...coaching.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 10:46 am to LSUsuperfresh
quote:
I think Petrino not getting to Atlanta is more accredited to the competition during that time. 2011 Arkansas was one of the best Arkansas teams I've seen. It was just bad luck that 2011 Bama and LSU also fielded one of their best teams as well that year
I don't. While Alabama and LSU were both good teams in 2010 and 2011, Petrino didn't get to Atlanta because of poor defensive play and poor defensive coaching.
In 2010 Arkansas had Alabama beat at home, but the defense let Alabama turn turnovers into points late to win it. Arkansas also carried a lead into the 4th quarter at National Champ Auburn. The defense gave up 20 fourth quarter points.
Arkansas beat LSU in 2010, as they were a non factor in the West race.
Arkansas defense ranking in 2010 was #48
In 2011 again, Arkansas fell to Alabama and LSU by not having a decent defense. Honestly, the defense was flat out terrible, especially for an 11 win team.
Arkansas defense ranking in 2011 was #55
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