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re: Tide Hoops | Recruiting
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:40 am to JustGetItRight
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:40 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
Who did Jr play over that was more deserving?
His first year he averaged 19.5 minutes a game. The only guards that got less time were Armond Davis (transferred out and then quit BB), Brandon Austin (transferred to Samford), and walk-on Lawson Schaffer.
His second year, the minutes dropped to 13.9 and Lawson Schaffer was the only guard that got fewer minutes.
His last season, he got 9.7 minutes a game, didn't even play in all the games, averaged a tad over 2 shots a game, and the only guards off the bench behind him were Schaffer and Britton Johnson.
The notion that Jr was getting tons of minutes and Avery was playing him ahead of all this talent is demonstrably untrue. His minutes dropped every year he was here and even then he never got starter-level time.
The plain fact is that for whatever reason, Grant's roster management at Alabama was terrible and when Avery took over there weren't a lot of options to put on the floor. As Avery got those better options in (and he wasn't Oats but he got some really good players here), he used them and Jr's time fell off accordingly.
Justin Coleman was chased off because Avery told him that he didn't see him getting any PT. His son played 19.5 minutes the next year.
I'm not one to bash Avery, as I actually liked a lot of things that he did while he was here. Protecting his son's minutes was not one of them. He refused to recruit a backup PG, and Lawson was definitely better than he was which should have been a glaring red flag.
2
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:40 am to Robot Santa
quote:
Jr. had no business getting any non-garbage time minutes at a major college program
Someone had to play. Who would you have put in?
quote:
Avery never recruited a backup PG to take those minutes.
I just pointed out how his minutes fell off the cliff as others came into the system. Kira, Petty, Herb, Dazon Ingram, and Tevin Mack all got DOUBLE or more the minutes he did that last season. Colin, Petty, and Ingram got double or more minutes than Jr the season before.
As far as the recruiting part, I'm not sure how you say that since Herb and Petty were there and both played the point regularly under both Avery and Oats.
The whole thing is a false narrative used to excuse the failure of Avery's teams to perform down the stretch when the tournament was on the line. He's to blame for that because he wasn't a particularly good X and O guy and his teams were soft, but not because his kid got a few minutes in the games.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 9:07 am to BigBird09
quote:
Justin Coleman was chased off because Avery told him that he didn't see him getting any PT. His son played 19.5 minutes the next year.
And Coleman ended up a couple of years later as starting point guard for Arizona. A worse Arizona team team than usual, but Coleman was definitely a better point guard than Avery Jr. He was too small on defense, but he could hit threes and was absolute money on the free throw line, which helped late in games. Jr. was good from the line too. I think Avery had to keep Mrs. Johnson happy with Jr's pt.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 9:35 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
The whole thing is a false narrative used to excuse the failure of Avery's teams to perform down the stretch when the tournament was on the line. He's to blame for that because he wasn't a particularly good X and O guy and his teams were soft, but not because his kid got a few minutes in the games.
Petty never played point and Herb didn't often do it under Avery. In Avery Jr's least played season he still averaged around 10 minutes. That's a quarter of the entire game. In a game that can be decided by a single point, it is 100% a problem to have a player like that getting significant minutes (yes, when a player plays a fourth of the available minutes regularly, that's significant).
Posted on 6/28/21 at 10:20 am to BigBird09
quote:
Petty never played point and Herb didn't often do it under Avery. In Avery Jr's least played season he still averaged around 10 minutes. That's a quarter of the entire game. In a game that can be decided by a single point, it is 100% a problem to have a player like that getting significant minutes (yes, when a player plays a fourth of the available minutes regularly, that's significant).
Exactly. No efforts were made to actually replace him. His minutes dipped because Sexton and Kira were elite and made the role of a backup PG smaller. No one is arguing that Avery was making Jr. a starter, but he was just woefully out of place on a P-6 roster. In terms of talent he was like 3rd guy off the bench at Samford or Troy, but he was playing anywhere from 10-19 minutes for us over 3 seasons. No way in hell he gets those minutes if he wasn't playing for his daddy.
It's also ridiculously silly to argue that poor allocation of bench minutes is a scapegoat for late season collapses. If anything, having a sub-standard bench is the primary cause of late season collapses.
This post was edited on 6/28/21 at 10:24 am
Posted on 6/28/21 at 10:37 am to BigBird09
quote:
Justin Coleman was chased off because Avery told him that he didn't see him getting any PT. His son played 19.5 minutes the next year. I'm not one to bash Avery, as I actually liked a lot of things that he did while he was here. Protecting his son's minutes was not one of them. He refused to recruit a backup PG, and Lawson was definitely better than he was which should have been a glaring red flag.
Justin Coleman f*cking sucked here bro, don’t act like he didn’t. I thought Jr. played better than Coleman
Posted on 6/28/21 at 10:48 am to saban n bear
Justin Coleman had the ability to dribble without going arse first 90 feet from the basket. That automatically creates a huge separation in their talents as backup PGs. Coleman couldn’t ever find his 3 point shot at Alabama, but he was a much better player than Avery Jr.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 11:00 am to BigBird09
quote:
In Avery Jr's least played season he still averaged around 10 minutes. That's a quarter of the entire game. In a game that can be decided by a single point, it is 100% a problem to have a player like that getting significant minutes (yes, when a player plays a fourth of the available minutes regularly, that's significant).
this. a quarter of the game with no positive production from the pg was a very relevant factor in why we lost so many close games that year.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 11:11 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
Who did Jr play over that was more deserving?
his last season we shouldve had dazon and at times herb as the backup. jr shouldnt of played at all. those guys playing so much at wing, in combination w/ jr playing killed our SHOOTING, SPACING, PACE...you know, pretty much everything that oats doesnt want to happen now.....mack and petty shouldve played atleast 30 minutes a game that year for the sole purpose of being our best wing shooters. instead mack played 20 minutes and petty played 28. kira also shouldve played around 35 minutes or so. insisting on jr getting time ruined that, though avery throwing out mostly 2 traditional non productive big lineups also did.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 11:24 am to Bryant91092
quote:
Justin Coleman had the ability to dribble without going arse first 90 feet from the basket. That automatically creates a huge separation in their talents as backup PGs. Coleman couldn’t ever find his 3 point shot at Alabama, but he was a much better player than Avery Jr.
and by his senior year coleman was a very solid shooter, as was already said. shooting was what we needed the most.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 11:41 am to rushball
Yep. Roster management was very poor when Avery took over but there's no way Jr should've been getting any minutes towards the end of his time here. That's on Avery for not bringing in a viable backup PG and letting his son eat up minutes.
I'm so glad we have Oats so we don't have to worry about silly issues like these now.
I'm so glad we have Oats so we don't have to worry about silly issues like these now.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 12:21 pm to TheNameIsDalton
Oats has been better but I’ve never understood his fascination with Rojas
Posted on 6/28/21 at 12:42 pm to Allthatfades
All I can think of with Rojas is that he's a major positive influence on the rest of the team off the court, in practice, during workouts, etc. and they need him to help keep the ship pointed in the right direction during the times when contact between the players and the staff is limited. Once things started to click with Gary late last season Rojas saw his minutes go away almost entirely.
This post was edited on 6/28/21 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 6/28/21 at 1:09 pm to Robot Santa
His fascination is that Rojas followed him to Ala after signing with Buffalo because Oats thought he could help the train-wreck in T'town. It's just loyalty. He's not hurting our numbers, I have no issue.
I always remember him for canning that 3 at State that clinched the regular season if he never plays again.
I always remember him for canning that 3 at State that clinched the regular season if he never plays again.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 1:35 pm to McGregor
Yep . I have been the biggest defender of Rojas on here , not saying he is a great player or anything but that he could play a role on the team and he does that with 100% effort and coming off an injury. Everybody on the roster is not going to get equal minutes obviously but he can give you some minutes for others to rest or stay out of foul trouble
Posted on 6/28/21 at 2:21 pm to McGregor
I will remember the 3 he hit to clinch the SEC title and also him taking over the Furman game out of nowhere
Posted on 6/28/21 at 2:48 pm to mistaken4193
We wouldve lost the Furman game without him.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 3:46 pm to CrimsonFever
quote:
We wouldve lost the Furman game without him.
It was frustrating that he didn't carry over that "junk yard dog" mentality consistently the rest of the season. Because that was a role he filled brilliantly that night, but he seemed to really struggle to play that role the rest of the season.
As others have said, if he's not screwing up numbers then I hope he's still around this season. Oats and Hodge clearly love him and that means he brings value to the locker room IMHO.
This post was edited on 6/28/21 at 3:47 pm
Posted on 6/28/21 at 4:10 pm to mistaken4193
So if Shack leaves Oats already has someone ready to pull the trigger.
Maybe that’s a reclass from 22?? I mean idk if someone in the portal would wait until the last minute
quote:
A name wasn’t mentioned. Just that if it plays out that way we had another guy “waiting in the wings”.
Maybe that’s a reclass from 22?? I mean idk if someone in the portal would wait until the last minute
This post was edited on 6/28/21 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 6/28/21 at 4:46 pm to SummerOfGeorge
kind of hard to play with a junkyard dog attitude when the refs are calling a foul on you as soon as you check in the game and every time you turn around thereafter
i still believe they went after rojas as a group. he must have hit on one of their wives or girlfriend
i still believe they went after rojas as a group. he must have hit on one of their wives or girlfriend
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