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OL...Is it a talent issue? OR Is it a coaching issue?
Posted on 11/7/21 at 11:04 pm
Posted on 11/7/21 at 11:04 pm
First, I had family issues to contend with and I did not and have not bothered to watch the LSU game. Tonight was my first visit here since Friday night. I saw one post...PFF grade on Chris Owen at 35'ish so I went to look for a couple of specific photos of Chris just before the snap of the ball. And there it was.
DD squats at the ball when doing a shotgun snap. His toes are about 8 inches behind the rear tip of the ball. His weight is balanced on the arch of his feet. He has to drop step and hope he can adjust his balance before the NG can reach him. If the NG is coming hard, DD is toast. He is doing well not to end up on his arse.
I found 3 photos of CO at center during the game just before the snap. He was squatted over the ball exactly the same way with the same results. To win with this type of stance you would have to have quick feet and tremendous (Steen type) upper body strength. Neither DD nor CO is what I would call nimble nor do they have Steen like upper body strength.
With both of them doing the same things the same way, there is only one answer. They have been coached to play that way. The UGA NG will destroy anyone we put up against him if we do not use a guard to chip him and allow the center to reset balance before contact.
DD squats at the ball when doing a shotgun snap. His toes are about 8 inches behind the rear tip of the ball. His weight is balanced on the arch of his feet. He has to drop step and hope he can adjust his balance before the NG can reach him. If the NG is coming hard, DD is toast. He is doing well not to end up on his arse.
I found 3 photos of CO at center during the game just before the snap. He was squatted over the ball exactly the same way with the same results. To win with this type of stance you would have to have quick feet and tremendous (Steen type) upper body strength. Neither DD nor CO is what I would call nimble nor do they have Steen like upper body strength.
With both of them doing the same things the same way, there is only one answer. They have been coached to play that way. The UGA NG will destroy anyone we put up against him if we do not use a guard to chip him and allow the center to reset balance before contact.
6
Posted on 11/7/21 at 11:23 pm to Tw1st3d
Has to be coaching.
No way we can whiff on THAT many 4 and 5 star OL recruits.
No way we can whiff on THAT many 4 and 5 star OL recruits.
Posted on 11/7/21 at 11:37 pm to Chad4Bama
Coaching. Dude we have now is the worst we’ve ever had. Fire him and let a GA coach them.
Posted on 11/7/21 at 11:56 pm to Tw1st3d
quote:
The UGA NG will destroy anyone we put up against him if we do not use a guard to chip him and allow the center to reset balance before contact.
Woof
Don’t want to imagine what Jordan Davis would do to either one of Dalcourt or Owens.
Posted on 11/8/21 at 12:39 am to Tw1st3d
There was one play Young got sacked on I think 3 people all tried to block the same guy and let 2 run free at him
Posted on 11/8/21 at 2:54 am to Tw1st3d
I think Saban is learning a hard lesson here. You can’t bring in 2 ex-NFL head coaches and expect them to perform to their potential as assistant CFB coaches. Other then a paycheck, there’s really no motivation there.
This post was edited on 11/8/21 at 2:56 am
Posted on 11/8/21 at 7:32 am to JQBama
Want to create some new juice this week?..He wont but I wish he would.
Personnel
_________
1)Move Ekiyor to Center...Today..Bench Owens
2)Insert Latham or Tommy Brown at RG..Or both at LG also...Keep DGeorge at RT in the lineup this week and let him play
3)Let Billingsley know he is on his last legs.Tell him 1 more time that we are going to wear you out this week and throw the GD ball to you.In return you play with energy and toughness or you are out of here,and block your arse off.
4)Slade has to be just a 6-8 play situational guy.He is an energy vampire.It is past time to see under fire what those rookies can do.Perfect week..
5)Play TSanders...A lot...
6)Anyone who "Busts" this week comes out for the rest of the half defensively...
7)3 or more "Busts" defensively and Golding is done...It is past ridiculous...
Schematically:
1)Get to the perimeter...get to the Perimeter....Get to the perimeter..Run 8-10 Bubbles,jets,and pass-offs with Jamo,Earle,and Leary
2)If we dont get into Pistol and let our RBs get Downhill?I would strip O'Brien immediately.
3)The 1st time we dont have a Built in HOT against pressure?....Same thing for O'Brien...It is unforgiveable.If the QB or the HOT Receiver miss it that is one thing.Not to be prepared is another.
4)Our QB is really talented and doing a helluva job!!...For as poorly Coached as he is COACHED..They must:
*Insert some called QB run game,if it is only a couple of draws and tight and wide-zone read..
*Make our QB carry out basic ball faking after the handoff..
*And for God's sake can we Please insert some QB 101 to help offset the pass rush some and change Bryce's Launch points?....I mean holy hell..Work on his ball-faking this week which is bad.(And you CAN ball-fake better out of the Pistol-Use it)Boot him some.Boot away some.Roll him out some. Half roll him some.Anything to help our men up front and him.
*Run some more RPO and dont punt the damn thing this week...
Personnel
_________
1)Move Ekiyor to Center...Today..Bench Owens
2)Insert Latham or Tommy Brown at RG..Or both at LG also...Keep DGeorge at RT in the lineup this week and let him play
3)Let Billingsley know he is on his last legs.Tell him 1 more time that we are going to wear you out this week and throw the GD ball to you.In return you play with energy and toughness or you are out of here,and block your arse off.
4)Slade has to be just a 6-8 play situational guy.He is an energy vampire.It is past time to see under fire what those rookies can do.Perfect week..
5)Play TSanders...A lot...
6)Anyone who "Busts" this week comes out for the rest of the half defensively...
7)3 or more "Busts" defensively and Golding is done...It is past ridiculous...
Schematically:
1)Get to the perimeter...get to the Perimeter....Get to the perimeter..Run 8-10 Bubbles,jets,and pass-offs with Jamo,Earle,and Leary
2)If we dont get into Pistol and let our RBs get Downhill?I would strip O'Brien immediately.
3)The 1st time we dont have a Built in HOT against pressure?....Same thing for O'Brien...It is unforgiveable.If the QB or the HOT Receiver miss it that is one thing.Not to be prepared is another.
4)Our QB is really talented and doing a helluva job!!...For as poorly Coached as he is COACHED..They must:
*Insert some called QB run game,if it is only a couple of draws and tight and wide-zone read..
*Make our QB carry out basic ball faking after the handoff..
*And for God's sake can we Please insert some QB 101 to help offset the pass rush some and change Bryce's Launch points?....I mean holy hell..Work on his ball-faking this week which is bad.(And you CAN ball-fake better out of the Pistol-Use it)Boot him some.Boot away some.Roll him out some. Half roll him some.Anything to help our men up front and him.
*Run some more RPO and dont punt the damn thing this week...
Posted on 11/8/21 at 7:51 am to The Inspector
great points. i was screaming for him to be rolled out. but for some bill o brien kept bryce as as a sitting duck with those repeated LSU blitzes. so frustrating.
Posted on 11/8/21 at 7:53 am to crimsoncarma
Here are a few accompanying questions to go along with "Is it a Coaching Issue?"
"Is BoB a smart man?"
"Is DeAndre Hopkins worth more than a 2nd Round Draft Pick?"
"Does BoB know how to neutralize a blitz?"
"Is BoB a smart man?"
"Is DeAndre Hopkins worth more than a 2nd Round Draft Pick?"
"Does BoB know how to neutralize a blitz?"
Posted on 11/8/21 at 8:01 am to UASports23
quote:
"Is BoB a smart man?"
quote:
"Is DeAndre Hopkins worth more than a 2nd Round Draft Pick?"
Posted on 11/8/21 at 8:09 am to The Inspector
quote:
1)Move Ekiyor to Center...Today..Bench Owens
Or, just give him a full week of practice at the position. He played well enough there last year, and the experience could help. That said, I knew it would be rough as soon as He snapped the ball into his own crouch
quote:
2)Insert
Not sure of the right mix, but would like to see some of the young guys get some reps with the 1s more often to help depth and build for the future on the OL who need snaps together as a unit above all else
quote:I think that is what it is. Latu is up and down on consistency, as well. Need dependability at the position. Extend that to the WRs, as well. Bryce would be a 75% passer if not for so many drops, at least that is what my fan biased observations tell me.
Billingsley
quote:
Slade
He is out there for a reason. We have to face that the young guys must limit the offense with their development or are not doing what they are supposed to be doing to get reps. I won't bash him for being less talented. But, that God awful direct snap call was the worst playcall at Albama since the Mac Jones fakepunt.
quote:
Play TSanders
Have to wonder if he is on a snap count with carries or still dealing with injury. A talent for sure. Saban seems to have a very personal connection with him, so, I have to believe if he could play more, he would.
quote:
Anyone who "Busts" this week comes out for the rest of the half defensively...
Not sure we can improve by taking the secondary off the field before halftime.
quote:I'm convinced he is a great coach who has inadequate leadership qualities to COORDINATE the defensive staff and player development on that side of the ball. Only so much blame to give him that is due for his players and subordinate coaching staff on D. He needs to hold them accountable. If not, move him back to a positional coach and promote a DC who will do his job.
3 or more "Busts" defensively and Golding is done...It is past ridiculous...
quote:
1)Get to the perimeter..
Don't disagree. Need more edge plays that would help offset OL struggles.
quote:
Pistol
Best running formation in CFB and keeps the rest of the offensive play calling on the table for what Bama likes to do. Sets up well for Playaction as well for some of our WRs that don't have the skillset we have been spoiled with.
quote:
dont have a Built in HOT
Not sure if true. Bryce can audible based on what he sees. Maybe it's his vision or confidence that are affecting your perception of that.
quote:100% agree, very impressive. Bama is maybe a 3 loss team without him. A pure warrior and silent, professional. Need him to be more vocal in the leadership department; he is off the charts in the lead by example areas
Our QB is really talented
Posted on 11/8/21 at 8:17 am to Tw1st3d
Here is Bama's offensive line rankings coming into the LSU game.
LINK
Outstanding
Passing Downs Line Yards per Carry (Unadjusted averages for rushing on passing downs)- #1 in the country
Line yards per carry- #7 in the country
Very good
Stuff Rate: Percentage of carries by running backs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage.- #13 in the country
Opportunity Rate: The percentage of carries (when four yards are available) that gain at least four yards, i.e. the percentage of carries in which the line does its job, so to speak.- #18 in the country
Power Success Rate: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown.- #20 in the country
Mediocre to bad
Standard Downs Line Yards per Carry: The raw, unadjusted per-carry line yardage for a team on standard downs (first down, second-and-7 or fewer, third-and-4 or fewer, fourth-and-4 or fewer). #49 in the country
Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for all non-garbage time pass attempts. #53 in the country
Standard Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for standard downs pass attempts. #59 in the country
Very bad
Passing Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for passing downs pass attempts. #77 in the country
Saturday notwithstanding, the run-blocking has been very good for the most part except on standard downs. The pass protection has been piss poor. The mediocre numbers on standard downs line yards per carry is interesting. Why are they good in every run blocking situation except that category? It makes me believe the playcalling is very predictable in standard downs, opposing teams have picked up on tendencies, and know when they are going to run the ball in those situations so they've been able to bottle it up.
LINK
Outstanding
Passing Downs Line Yards per Carry (Unadjusted averages for rushing on passing downs)- #1 in the country
Line yards per carry- #7 in the country
Very good
Stuff Rate: Percentage of carries by running backs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage.- #13 in the country
Opportunity Rate: The percentage of carries (when four yards are available) that gain at least four yards, i.e. the percentage of carries in which the line does its job, so to speak.- #18 in the country
Power Success Rate: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown.- #20 in the country
Mediocre to bad
Standard Downs Line Yards per Carry: The raw, unadjusted per-carry line yardage for a team on standard downs (first down, second-and-7 or fewer, third-and-4 or fewer, fourth-and-4 or fewer). #49 in the country
Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for all non-garbage time pass attempts. #53 in the country
Standard Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for standard downs pass attempts. #59 in the country
Very bad
Passing Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for passing downs pass attempts. #77 in the country
Saturday notwithstanding, the run-blocking has been very good for the most part except on standard downs. The pass protection has been piss poor. The mediocre numbers on standard downs line yards per carry is interesting. Why are they good in every run blocking situation except that category? It makes me believe the playcalling is very predictable in standard downs, opposing teams have picked up on tendencies, and know when they are going to run the ball in those situations so they've been able to bottle it up.
This post was edited on 11/8/21 at 8:24 am
Posted on 11/8/21 at 8:27 am to Bench McElroy
quote:
Saturday notwithstanding, the run-blocking has been fairly solid for the most part except on standard downs. The pass protection has been piss poor.
No matter the stats, the eyetest from many of us who have watched A LOT of football over the years simply feels off compared to available talent, consistency, and past performance
It is hard to be elite at 2 things. Typically, it is either great pass blocking or great run blocking
Bama is good at run blocking and not great at pass blocking. The playcall mix has no rhythm that plays to a strength or marginalizes a weakness. Bryce is the best 3rd down QB Bama has ever had out of pure necessity and his will to win.
Fact is, he should be in much fewer bad opportunities.
It is what it is though. Getting better each week is the goal.
Posted on 11/8/21 at 8:31 am to Bench McElroy
I think that those stats carry water for most of the season, but as for last Saturday night, they were pretty much awful in every single category. Losing a starter in the first quarter definitely played a part, but let's just hope that they can figure out how to at least be competent for the rest of the season. If Saturday's play continues, then it will not be a very fun rest of the season.
Posted on 11/8/21 at 8:35 am to Funky Tide 8
It's obvious that BOB & Marrone are not doing their jobs very well.
Bad OL personnel choices by Marrone and BOB fails to game-plan or adjust well enough to even utilize hot routes effectively to burn teams for blitzing us like crazy.
Bad OL personnel choices by Marrone and BOB fails to game-plan or adjust well enough to even utilize hot routes effectively to burn teams for blitzing us like crazy.
This post was edited on 11/8/21 at 11:06 am
Posted on 11/8/21 at 8:50 am to TidalSurge1
BOB/Marrone are not helping the situation, but you can't avoid looking back at Flood and wondering where the development behind last years unit was? Did Marrone just ruin them when he came in? Was it evaluation misses rather than development?
The reality is, Owens shouldn't be a guy that's playing right now. Cohen shouldn't be a guy that's playing right now.
We missed on Tommy Brown, Amari Kight, and Pierce Quick. Three big time prospects who will probably never see meaningful snaps for us. That's the big underlying issue with the line this year.
The reality is, Owens shouldn't be a guy that's playing right now. Cohen shouldn't be a guy that's playing right now.
We missed on Tommy Brown, Amari Kight, and Pierce Quick. Three big time prospects who will probably never see meaningful snaps for us. That's the big underlying issue with the line this year.
Posted on 11/8/21 at 8:57 am to Crimson77
quote:
Cohen shouldn't be a guy that's playing right now.
Is he struggling? Early in the year he was making some good blocks. He's physically ready to play. I dont mind a first year starter struggling some week to week. The problem with Owens is that we wasn't getting any better at RT. Maybe he can get better at C, i dont know. But let's stick with George at RT and see what he can do. He's certainly big enough and seems to have massive power too.
Posted on 11/8/21 at 9:05 am to SECSolomonGrundy
LT: Neal
LG: Cohen or Latham
C: Ekiyor
RG: Brown
RT: George
LG: Cohen or Latham
C: Ekiyor
RG: Brown
RT: George
This post was edited on 11/9/21 at 9:11 am
Posted on 11/8/21 at 9:33 am to Tw1st3d
What Marone is coaching the centers to do is pretty consistent with what is done in the NFL. This heads-up style allows for the center's intellect to be used to a maximum extent. With his head up he can more effectively see and adjust to blitzes and twist stunts. But the technique requires a level of strength and athleticism that our two guys (DD and CO) just do not have.
A high end NG bull rush destroys any hopes our centers might have
A high end NG bull rush destroys any hopes our centers might have
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