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imjustafatkid
UAB Fan
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
24047 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

LOL WUT? ....What part of my OP are you not understanding exactly and wasn't factual? Tell me where I am wrong ?


All of this:

quote:

Previously, Southern politicians were always New Deal Democrats in the manner of FDR. Big government was great if that meant spending on big infrastructure projects like the TVA and other programs that benefitted the region. Its when the divergence in the party over segregation that you saw them start to espouse conservative, small government principles which really meant maintaining the status quo as far as civil rights go. Big government was great when it was brought investment dollars that advanced the region....not so great when they began sticking their nose into societal questions. You saw the cracks post-WW2 when segregation was beginning to be addressed by Truman who was considered to be very progressive (for his time) and the diehards and deadeners formed the old Dixiecrat Party.

They became reliably Republican in the 80's with the Reagan revolution and Reagan really coopted a lot of what George Wallace and Goldwater were preaching in the 60's. Reagan put a smooth Hollywood pitchman sheen on the message and the political positions. Republicans saw Wallace's significant support in the upper-midwest Rustbelt and blue collar segments in places like Chicago, Boston, and NYC when he pulled a significant amount of the primary vote among blue collar voters ......voters who had been considered reliably Democrat and didn't like the society upheaval of the 1960's. Wallace would never be accepted on a national stage because of his segregationist past and Goldwater was considered a dangerous loon but Reagan co-opted a lot of this message and rode it to overwhelming victory.


I'm sure quite a few "astute scholars" believe this. That's like saying the American media thinks Trump is a lot like George Wallace. It's wishful thinking and reimagining of history, nothing more. You still haven't provided a single bit of factual evidence to back it up.

quote:

a total moron like Guy Hunt rode in on the Reagan wave.


Nope. Still not why he won. I even told you why.


stomp
Alabama Fan
Bama
Member since Nov 2014
3203 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

and after Wallace was washed up and dying there wasn't a Democrat worth a shit, a total moron like Guy Hunt rode in on the Reagan wave.


And so much for the Republican morality... Hunt ended up in the clink buying marble floors with campaign funds.


Cobrasize
Alabama Fan
Birmingham
Member since Jun 2013
41084 posts
 Online 

re: Just want to say
What did Siegelman end up in prison for?


stomp
Alabama Fan
Bama
Member since Nov 2014
3203 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

We did not start sending a majority Republican delegation to the federal House until the mid 90s, which is the same time we started voting for Republican federal Senators. There is no way to look at the history of Alabama voting patterns and come to the conclusion you made.


Ever tried to build a state political party from damn near scratch? It takes time. Often a damn long time. Still doesn't change the fact that the same brand of isolationist, Alabama conservatism that was practiced under the Wallace-era Democratic Party is being practiced today in the state GOP.

quote:

ETA: Republicans didn't run our state government until 2010 (it takes more than a governor to run a state), which is a fact you are clearly scared to acknowledge. DEMOCRATS brought our state down. REPUBLICANS are fixing it. Over a century of Democrat rule will not be fixed in 10 years.


Again, the party banner doesn't matter as much as the practiced ideology. The state has been screwed for generations.

Now, since we're all on the topic of Alabama political makeup... your explanation for the state avoiding Democratic presidential candidates in the color TV era had nothing to do with Democrats embracing Civil Rights (and thus minorities). So what exactly happened that caused this whiplash?



This post was edited on 9/7 at 11:34 pm


14&Counting
Hawaii Fan
Manhattan Beach, CA
Member since Jul 2012
24459 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

That's like saying the American media thinks Trump is a lot like George Wallace.


....and they would be correct....there is a thread and commonality that runs from Trump to Reagan to Wallace and his contemporaries Goldwater and Nixon....a firebrand form of conservative populism: law and order, appeals to American exceptionalism, patriotism, Christian moral values, distrust of the academic and coastal elites, and an appeal as a law and order candidate in a time of social upheaval and cultural divide.

What Wallace did was prove that white working class Democratic voters outside the South who were traditionally Democrat could be peeled off and converted. If you want factual proof, look at the Wallace presidential campaigns and how Nixon pivoted on these issues in 1968 and again in '72.
This post was edited on 9/7 at 11:26 pm


Cobrasize
Alabama Fan
Birmingham
Member since Jun 2013
41084 posts
 Online 

re: Just want to say
quote:

A grand jury indicted Hunt for theft, conspiracy, and ethics violations.[4] Prosecutors said that he took over $200,000 from a 1987 inaugural account and used it to for personal use such as marble showers and new lawnmowers.[5][6] Hunt was found guilty. As the state constitution does not allow convicted felons to hold office, Hunt was forced to resign on April 22, 1993.[7]

Hunt was also ordered to pay $212,000, given five years' probation, and serve 1,000 hours of community service. In February 1998 he asked the state parole board to reduce his probation by four months; the judge instead increased the probation by five years, since he had only paid $4,000 of his $212,000 fine. [8] In April 1998, having served his full sentence and paid his fine, the parole board granted Hunt a pardon.[9][1

Hunt’s guilt



Cobrasize
Alabama Fan
Birmingham
Member since Jun 2013
41084 posts
 Online 

re: Just want to say
quote:

On October 26, 2005, Siegelman was indicted on new charges of bribery and mail fraud in connection with Richard M. Scrushy, founder and former CEO of HealthSouth. Two former Siegelman aides were charged in the indictment as well. Siegelman was accused of trading government favors for campaign donations as lieutenant governor from 1995 to 1999, and as governor from 1999 to 2003.

Scrushy was accused of arranging $500,000 in donations to Siegelman's 1999 campaign for a state lottery fund for universal education, in exchange for a seat on a state hospital regulatory board, a non-paying position. Scrushy had been appointed and served on the state hospital regulatory board during the past three Republican administrations. He had been acquitted in 2005 of charges of securities fraud for his part in the HealthSouth Corporation fraud scandal which cost shareholders billions.[23]

During his trial, Siegelman continued his campaign for reelection, running in the Democratic primary against Lt. Governor Lucy Baxley and minor candidates. On June 6, despite Baxley's relatively low-profile campaign, she defeated Siegelman with almost 60% of the vote compared to Siegelman's 36%.[24]

On June 29, 2006, three weeks after Siegelman lost the primary, a federal jury found both Siegelman and Scrushy guilty on seven of the 33 felony counts in the indictment. Two co-defendants, Siegelman's former chief of staff, Paul Hamrick and his transportation director, Mack Roberts, were acquitted of all charges. Siegelman was convicted on one count of bribery, one count of conspiracy to commit honest services mail fraud, four counts of honest services mail fraud, and one count of obstruction of justice.[25]

Siegelman was acquitted on 25 counts, including the indictment's allegations of a widespread RICO conspiracy.[26] Siegelman was represented by Mobile attorneys Vince Kilborn and David McDonald, along with Greenwood attorney Hiram Eastland and Notre Dame law professor G. Robert Blakey, an authority on RICO. Siegelman was sentenced by Judge Mark Everett Fuller, a George W. Bush appointee, to more than seven years in federal prison and a $50,000 fine.[2]

Siegelman said in his defense that Scrushy had been on the board of the state hospital regulatory board during several preceding Republican governorships. He said that Scrushy's contribution toward the campaign for a state lottery fund for universal education was unrelated to his appointment. Siegelman and his attorneys said that the charges against him, in addition to being unfounded, were without precedent.[2]

Scrushy was released from federal prison in April 2012. He resided in a Houston, Texas halfway house until he was released on July 25, 2012.[27][28]


Siegelman’s issues. (For what it’s worth, I like Siegelman as a man)


stomp
Alabama Fan
Bama
Member since Nov 2014
3203 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

Siegelman’s issues.


Now do Bentley's!

FWIW, you won't get me making excuses for Siegelman's bull shite LOL


imjustafatkid
UAB Fan
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
24047 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

stomp


Thanks for posting things that proved what I said? Not sure what you thought you accomplished there.


stomp
Alabama Fan
Bama
Member since Nov 2014
3203 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

Thanks for posting things that proved what I said? Not sure what you thought you accomplished there.


You didn't explain why.

Why did the state legislature do a complete party 180 degree flip in 2010?


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imjustafatkid
UAB Fan
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
24047 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

What Wallace did was prove that white working class Democratic voters outside the South who were traditionally Democrat could be peeled off and converted. If you want factual proof, look at the Wallace presidential campaigns and how Nixon pivoted on these issues in 1968 and again in '72.


...Nixon ran against Wallace in 68, and on a law and order platform. He didn't get that from Wallace anymore than Wallace got it from him. Trying to retcon Wallace into a Republican icon is pure nonsense. He was never a Republican. He even accused Nixon of being a desegregationist during the campaign.

I guess we'd also need to ignore George Wallace's very successful 1972 Dem presidential primary run that was halted by an attempt on his life in your new, made-up history where Republicans suddenly aligned with his views. Since they were clearly so aligned, I'm amazed he wasn't running as a Republican.
This post was edited on 9/8 at 12:20 am


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Cobrasize
Alabama Fan
Birmingham
Member since Jun 2013
41084 posts
 Online 

re: Just want to say
quote:

Now do Bentley's!


Bentley was horney , like Clinton, but only one of them kept their job


Not to mention, only one kept their wife as well. Maybe so she could still be relevant in politics
This post was edited on 9/8 at 12:17 am


imjustafatkid
UAB Fan
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
24047 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

Why did the state legislature do a complete party 180 degree flip in 2010?


The Alabama Dem party fell apart, largely due to the flailing influence of the AEA. People got tired of the AEA's strong influence over our legislature, specifically Paul Hubbert.

The party is still a mess today. They can't even figure out who is running it and are mired in legal battles over it. A better question is why would anyone want that chaos running our state? It's clear to see why people have rejected them here.
This post was edited on 9/8 at 12:22 am


stomp
Alabama Fan
Bama
Member since Nov 2014
3203 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:


The Alabama Dem party fell apart, largely due to the flailing influence of the AEA. People got tired of the AEA's strong influence over our legislature, specifically Paul Hubbert.

The party is still a mess today. They can't even figure out who is running it and are mired in legal battles over it. A better question is why would anyone want that chaos running our state? It's clear to see why people have rejected them here.


Paul Hubbert and the AEA had little to nothing to do with it LOL.


TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7662 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

And so much for the Republican morality


Really? I like and even agree on some of your comments but sometimes you have no sense of reality when your true colors show.


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TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7662 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

Bentley was horney , like Clinton, but only one of them kept their job


Not to mention, only one kept their wife as well. Maybe so she could still be relevant in politics




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JustGetItRight
Alabama Fan
Member since Jan 2012
12227 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

Guy Hunt rode in on the Reagan wave


That didn’t happen at all.

Charlie Graddick and Bill Baxley made it to the runoff for the D nomination. Everyone expected Baxley to win but he didn’t. He blamed R crossover voters (people who voted in the R primary then voted in the D runoff) for giving the win to Graddick. May or may not have been true, but either way it was completely legal at that time.

Baxley threw a fit and appealed to the state party, which invalidated the entire primary and named Baxley the nominee.

Just like the crossover votes, that was also completely legal but it triggered a massive voter revolt. Baxley only got 1/3 of the votes in the primary - so while crossover votes MAY have helped Graddick most of his runoff votes came from Ds. For reference, 940,000 people voted in the D primary. Only 33,000 had voted in the R.

Those D voters that saw their votes ignored then threw a big middle finger to the party and voted Hunt in the general.
This post was edited on 9/8 at 1:52 pm


The Spleen
Alabama Fan
Member since Dec 2010
30375 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

The Alabama Dem party fell apart, largely due to the flailing influence of the AEA. People got tired of the AEA's strong influence over our legislature, specifically Paul Hubbert.



Joe Reed's stranglehold on the party had more to do with it than the AEA.

quote:

The party is still a mess today. They can't even figure out who is running it and are mired in legal battles over it. A better question is why would anyone want that chaos running our state? It's clear to see why people have rejected them here.


The legal battles are over. Chris England is head of the party and they actually have some organization this cycle. It's going to take a few cycles though before any meaningful impact is seen.


imjustafatkid
UAB Fan
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
24047 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

Paul Hubbert and the AEA had little to nothing to do with it LOL.


Wishful thinking. It's painful how unaware you are.
This post was edited on 9/8 at 9:23 am


imjustafatkid
UAB Fan
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
24047 posts

re: Just want to say
quote:

Joe Reed's stranglehold on the party had more to do with it than the AEA.


This was also an issue, no doubt.

quote:

The legal battles are over. Chris England is head of the party and they actually have some organization this cycle. It's going to take a few cycles though before any meaningful impact is seen.


I wasn't aware the legal battles had ended. Last I saw there was a decision made, but Nancy Worley and her ilk had still not accepted that and were looking into appealing. Did that finally get hammered out?


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