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re: "Scathing" article on OL play
Posted on 9/4/13 at 12:02 pm to Nicolae
Posted on 9/4/13 at 12:02 pm to Nicolae
i just hope and pray that the smackdown refocuses them to play a teensy bit better, 1 more second for murray per play and it could have been a total slaughter with UGA at #1 in the polls rght now.
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Posted on 9/4/13 at 12:05 pm to runningdog
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Please read the sentence as it relates to Bama. Bama has a history of serviceable QB's.
I have resisted returning snotty, snide comments to your Disneydawg on steroid replies. Please give me the same courtesy.
Sorry. I am trying to figure out your point, though. that we should not go after top QBs and concentrate on OL?
It seems most teams have trouble recruiting a position. For Georgia it would appear to OL. I think Alabama recruits top QB prospects, too, but the scheme of the offense just does not lend itself to big numbers. For instance, this year they signed David Cornwell. he is a top prospect.
McCarron was ranked #7 among QBs. So, I don't think it is a matter of NOT recruiting or getting top prospects at QB as much as it is their system.
Run first. Protect the ball, rely on defense.
Posted on 9/4/13 at 12:14 pm to runningdog
quote:
been a priority or strength for this staff?
Strength no. Priority, yes. They don't go out there and say we are going to recruit subpar OLinemen. I think the problem is more development than anything else. Just a guess, though. I mean, we tried to get Tunsil. By all accounts he was locked up. Then, he signs with Ole Miss. Some say shenanigans on their part. I don't know. but when the top recruits wait until signing day before committing, it ties up a scholarship that would have gone to a highly recruited 2nd choice. Then when your #1 goes somewhere else you lose your #1 AND #2. So, no. I don't think it is easy at all.
Not sure I followed the rest of your post.
Shame you are not our coach, though. Sounds like an easy job and it pays good money.
And yes, that was meant to be snarky. I get so tired of everybody that has never played the game...or has never coached a day criticize and talk about how easy the job is. Truth is, it isn't easy. You got your feelings hurt when I got a little sarcastic. Imagine the meltdown if you had thousands of people criticizing everything you did or said every day.
Posted on 9/4/13 at 12:22 pm to reservoir_dawg
quote:+
That's not to say we haven't signed some guys from GA who are quality, but we've too often chased guys like Avery Young and Laremy Tunsil only to be left hanging, all the while players like the above have left our backyard and gone on to start at other local schools.
I understand what you are saying. but by all accounts Tunsil was a lock to come here. What should we have done...NOT recruited him> Then this thread would be criticizing the coaching staff for not going after a 5* OLinman from Georgia that wanted to come here. It is easy to write an article with hindsight. Writers are paid to get people to read their work. The best way to do this is to write stuff that riles people up.
Question. Tunsil told everybody he was coming to Georgia. It was only a week before signing day that things came into doubt, and nobody was certain until signing day he was going to Ole Miss. Should the coaching staff have kept a scholy open for him?
Posted on 9/4/13 at 12:25 pm to Spaceman Spiff
We (fans) pay too much attention to how many stars a player was. Georgia had had a ton of lower rated players that did very well for us...and have had some 4 and 5* players that were huge busts. It is SO hard to tell how a kid will turn out...almost impossible.
Posted on 9/4/13 at 12:54 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
We (fans) pay too much attention to how many stars a player was. Georgia had had a ton of lower rated players that did very well for us...and have had some 4 and 5* players that were huge busts. It is SO hard to tell how a kid will turn out...almost impossible.
No offense but this is sort of a copout. The lower rated players who become star players are more of the exception than the rule. There is strong correlation through data between recruiting ratings and players who become successful both in college and in the NFL. LINK And you need look no further than the team recruiting rankings to verify that the teams who have the best recruiting classes are the ones winning national championships. We had the 12th ranked class in 2010 and 2012. While those are good classes by most standards, they don't cut it when our toughest competition in the SEC is getting top 5 classes. We have also been at a significant disadvantage by not having a full roster which tells me scholarships we have offered were not accepted (the players simply went elsewhere) and/or we aren't offering enough scholarships to enough players to allow for attrition/rejection of our scholarships.
This post was edited on 9/4/13 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 9/4/13 at 12:56 pm to DawgsLife
I did play the game. Have not coached.
I have run, sponsored, at a level most runners only dream about - so I have a pretty good feel for elite athletics and what they involve.
Playing, like running, at some point becomes about athletic ability. I believe i was willing to hurt as much as anyone. I didn't have that little bit extra that was required to be able to run for my country.
Didn't hurt my feelings, I just think you are an apologist for a staff that does a mediocre job of recruiting o line talent. So sue me.
As for my recruiting philosophy, it is like a building a cross x team. Top 7 count, and top 5 score. You can have a couple of studs and some duds and do pretty well, OR you can recruit for depth. Depth wins every time. Focus too much on the studs and you lose out on depth.
I have run, sponsored, at a level most runners only dream about - so I have a pretty good feel for elite athletics and what they involve.
Playing, like running, at some point becomes about athletic ability. I believe i was willing to hurt as much as anyone. I didn't have that little bit extra that was required to be able to run for my country.
Didn't hurt my feelings, I just think you are an apologist for a staff that does a mediocre job of recruiting o line talent. So sue me.
As for my recruiting philosophy, it is like a building a cross x team. Top 7 count, and top 5 score. You can have a couple of studs and some duds and do pretty well, OR you can recruit for depth. Depth wins every time. Focus too much on the studs and you lose out on depth.
Posted on 9/4/13 at 1:29 pm to davesdawgs
Now THIS is what I like. Somebody that can actually go out there and do some research, bring back some facts, figures and make a logical argument! 
I would make one caveat, though. Typically the teams that finish high in recruiting rankings do an excellent job of developing talent, too. So. While your argument is valid that ranking might have a huge influence..which is greater? Ranking or development? I will always believe that if you have a coaching staff that can work hard and develop talent, then getting 4 and 5* players is not AS necessary. The players still have to have a certain amount of talent to be developed, but if that talent is not developed the player will wilt on the vine.
Here is a question for anybody on here that might know the answer. How do they come up with the rankings? Does anybody know? I mean, Rivals, Scout, 247...they don't go to all the little schools in the country and watch all the games.. WAY too many places and kids. And how may kids do you think get overlooked that have big talent because they play for some podunk school in a little town?
I would make one caveat, though. Typically the teams that finish high in recruiting rankings do an excellent job of developing talent, too. So. While your argument is valid that ranking might have a huge influence..which is greater? Ranking or development? I will always believe that if you have a coaching staff that can work hard and develop talent, then getting 4 and 5* players is not AS necessary. The players still have to have a certain amount of talent to be developed, but if that talent is not developed the player will wilt on the vine.
Here is a question for anybody on here that might know the answer. How do they come up with the rankings? Does anybody know? I mean, Rivals, Scout, 247...they don't go to all the little schools in the country and watch all the games.. WAY too many places and kids. And how may kids do you think get overlooked that have big talent because they play for some podunk school in a little town?
Posted on 9/4/13 at 1:34 pm to runningdog
quote:
I didn't have that little bit extra that was required to be able to run for my country.
As long as you gave your best, that is NOTHING to be sorry about. If you worked hard, then that is all anybody can ask. I get so sick and tired of people with all the talent in the world and take it for granted and won't work hard.
quote:
Didn't hurt my feelings, I just think you are an apologist for a staff that does a mediocre job of recruiting o line talent. So sue me.
No legal action forthcoming!
quote:
Depth wins every time. Focus too much on the studs and you lose out on depth.
This is something we have been lacking for awhile. I DO think we have not done as well as we could in recruiting Linemen. And then, to make things worse, I think we did an even poorer job of development. I think our offensive linemen (particularly on the offensive side of the ball) have lacked a certain nastiness.
Didn't mean to be so harsh to you. I was curious to see how you would react. You reacted extremely well!
Posted on 9/4/13 at 1:40 pm to runningdog
I believe that I heard somewhere, back around the Draft that OL is the one position classification where star-ranking out of high school has the least amount of correlation with draft order, when it's all said & done. Didn't Eric Fisher from Central Michigan go #1 overall, but was a 2-star coming out of HS? Joeckel from TAMU was a similar case.
Never having played the game, the only thing I can take away from that is that it can often come down to coaching and sheer force of will of a given player to want to improve and protect the line. Sadly, it seems that that mindset has escaped Athens. You would think that with a HC/OC combo that were both QBs, then making sure the OL is adequately-staffed with guys that give a frick and don't get complacent being beaten on virtually every play in six consecutive series would be a priority. That doesn't appear to be the case, unfortunately.
Never having played the game, the only thing I can take away from that is that it can often come down to coaching and sheer force of will of a given player to want to improve and protect the line. Sadly, it seems that that mindset has escaped Athens. You would think that with a HC/OC combo that were both QBs, then making sure the OL is adequately-staffed with guys that give a frick and don't get complacent being beaten on virtually every play in six consecutive series would be a priority. That doesn't appear to be the case, unfortunately.
Posted on 9/4/13 at 2:10 pm to VoxDawg
quote:
Stars for o-line players don't matter.
But coaching does. If you're not going to recruit the highest rated guys then you need to be able to coach them up.
Posted on 9/4/13 at 2:14 pm to VoxDawg
Elite athletes are an odd bunch. I had a friend who used to go to smaller races wearing cut offs or old gym shorts and a wife beater. He thought it was funny to act like a hayseed and smoke the local "pro's."
I would be very surprised if GA's LT is happy about his YouTube notoriety. That was a crushing hit on Murray.
No matter how athletic a kid may be, he is in college and away from home for the first time. Ask yourself whether you would have the drive to avoid all the temptations to be the very best? From experience I can say I could have been more disciplined in my running.
Coaching can only do so much. I think getting rid of the athletic dorms was a horrible idea. I am a believer in oversigning. I believe as an athlete you should have to prove yourself every year. I also believe the players should get a stipend. I think the discipline of the players is a little over the top. Run stadium steps, etc., but don't punish the team for stupid college kid behavior. I do agree there is no place for thug behavior. I don't understand the "weed" culture - my lungs were too important.
I would be very surprised if GA's LT is happy about his YouTube notoriety. That was a crushing hit on Murray.
No matter how athletic a kid may be, he is in college and away from home for the first time. Ask yourself whether you would have the drive to avoid all the temptations to be the very best? From experience I can say I could have been more disciplined in my running.
Coaching can only do so much. I think getting rid of the athletic dorms was a horrible idea. I am a believer in oversigning. I believe as an athlete you should have to prove yourself every year. I also believe the players should get a stipend. I think the discipline of the players is a little over the top. Run stadium steps, etc., but don't punish the team for stupid college kid behavior. I do agree there is no place for thug behavior. I don't understand the "weed" culture - my lungs were too important.
This post was edited on 9/4/13 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 9/4/13 at 2:51 pm to runningdog
quote:
I would be very surprised if GA's LT is happy about his YouTube notoriety. That was a crushing hit on Murray.
As I have said in another thread...Gates just does not have the lateral quickness to be a Tackle. He needs to be inside. However, I am sure the coaches are aware of this. Just a guess, but I suspect they don't have anyone ready for the Left Tackle position, so they put Gates there because he is the most experienced. A tackle is in a tough spot. You are taught over and over again do NOT open up and create a gap in between the tackle and the guard. However, depending on the DLine setup and stunt, the tackle HAS to get outside and reach a charging end. Very little you can do about it. Hopefully, if a running back stays in for protection he can pick up anyone that gets through. Unfortunately, with our young running backs they often do not pick up their block. It makes the whole OLine look bad, and it appears as if Murray is holding the ball too long.
Posted on 9/5/13 at 2:06 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Imagine the meltdown if you had thousands of people criticizing everything you did or said every day.
The $3 million/year would provide at least some cushion against the pain of being criticized, though. Retire or get fired after a year, you're still pretty much good for quite a while after.
Posted on 9/5/13 at 6:06 am to DawgsLife
quote:
"Scathing" article on OL play quote: That's not to say we haven't signed some guys from GA who are quality, but we've too often chased guys like Avery Young and Laremy Tunsil only to be left hanging, all the while players like the above have left our backyard and gone on to start at other local schools. + I understand what you are saying. but by all accounts Tunsil was a lock to come here. What should we have done...NOT recruited him> Then this thread would be criticizing the coaching staff for not going after a 5* OLinman from Georgia that wanted to come here. It is easy to write an article with hindsight. Writers are paid to get people to read their work. The best way to do this is to write stuff that riles people up. Question. Tunsil told everybody he was coming to Georgia. It was only a week before signing day that things came into doubt, and nobody was certain until signing day he was going to Ole Miss. Should the coaching staff have kept a scholy open for him?
Nope, that's not what I said at all. I have no problem with the coaches recruiting him. I do have a problem with the coaches failing to sign him without a real viable back-up plan.
Posted on 9/5/13 at 6:13 am to FaCubeItches
quote:
The $3 million/year would provide at least some cushion against the pain of being criticized, though. Retire or get fired after a year, you're still pretty much good for quite a while after.
Well, I could take some criticism for $3 Mil. And, in fairness, criticism comes with the job.
But people on here get all defensive and hurt when one poster says something sharp. they want to cry foul. But they take the long knives out after the Players and coaches. For some reason, fans believe they have an inherent right to slice and dice players and coaches. Not quite sure I understand or agree with this.
Posted on 9/5/13 at 6:15 am to reservoir_dawg
quote:
Nope, that's not what I said at all. I have no problem with the coaches recruiting him. I do have a problem with the coaches failing to sign him without a real viable back-up plan.
The kid waited until National Signing Day to sign with anybody, or to say who he was going to sign with. by the time he signed, there was nobody else out there. Not EVERY player signed on that day, but 99.9% did. What kind of "backup" plan can you have on signing day?
This post was edited on 9/5/13 at 6:16 am
Posted on 9/5/13 at 12:44 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
What kind of "backup" plan can you have on signing day?
That's one of the places where oversigning can help you. If someone bails at the last second, you're not stuck.
Posted on 9/5/13 at 12:59 pm to FaCubeItches
Maybe the problem with the o-line is the coaching. Just a thought.
Posted on 9/5/13 at 1:01 pm to FaCubeItches
quote:
That's one of the places where oversigning can help you. If someone bails at the last second, you're not stuck.
I understand what you are saying. but if you over sign and then you get everybody, you then turn to a kid that committed to you and say, "Sorry kid. You don't have a scholarship like we promised."
Now, tell me. If you are a kid and you saw a team that did that, would you commit to them, knowing they might pull your scholy after all the other teams have filled out their rosters and reached THEIR scholarship limits?
I know what you are going to say..."But Bama does it!' True. And when we have won as many Nattys as Bama has, we might can get away with it. But we haven't.
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