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re: (OT) Better Call Saul final season...April 18th
Posted on 8/15/22 at 9:49 pm to AirbusDawg
Posted on 8/15/22 at 9:49 pm to AirbusDawg
BCS was more visually mesmerizing, and thought-provoking. BB was a wild rollercoaster ride with all the twists and turns
What a fun ride
What a fun ride
1
Posted on 8/15/22 at 11:14 pm to Jefferson Dawg
Hey JD, guess who the commie is in this thread.
Posted on 8/15/22 at 11:19 pm to deeprig9
Hint: he's a pilot and smarter than everyone else in every way
Posted on 8/15/22 at 11:56 pm to deeprig9
Commie? Weird take man. I guess you like it when everyone has the same opinion as you? Just my take on the show, I'm sure there are others that have the same opinion.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 7:01 am to AirbusDawg
I really liked the finale. It wasn't as satisfying as El Camino but it was appropriate. Saul said it himself to the security guard - he had no one. I wanted more exciting fugitive scenes but that didn't fit into the themes they had been preparing. Saul needed redemption and to get Kim back. At first he pulls his Saul con and gets 7 years, but then he realizes he can redeem himself and spare Kim. In the end he has his dignity and apparently gets Kim back. They mention good behavior and with Kim being his lawyer it leaves it open that he could get out earlier.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 7:39 am to agentoranj1990
Sounds more like you’re trying to talk yourself into liking it than actually explaining why you liked it so much.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 8:29 am to Jefferson Dawg
I’m still not even sure how I feel about the finale. I kind of have the urge to shite on it, but I think honestly the mistake they made, or better yet, the problem I have with it, goes back to the finale of last season. When they suddenly out of nowhere made Kim want to pull a scam to ruin Howard’s life. It made no sense at all at that point considering how we’d been conditioned to consider her character, and so everything that happened afterwards in the final season was a consequence of that one out of nowhere change of course in season 5. And it never felt right to me. I still don’t think I even fully understand why she hated Howard so much in the first place.
I guess my point is that after turning Kim into a bitter spiteful cold blooded con junkie on a dime, the finale is about right. I don’t see much else they could have done after going in that odd direction in season 5
I liked the flashbacks a lot and how they were tied to “The Time Machine “ book that Jimmy kept on his bedside table all those years. They blew it by announcing the Walt & Jessie cameos ahead of time though. It would have been ten times better if you weren’t expecting it. That’s why the Chuck flashback was the best one. Wasn’t expecting that one at all, and seeing the two brothers in peacetime and realizing that they did both actually love each other at one point was about the closest I came to feeling any kind of emotion in the finale other than just being sad that it’s over
Clearly the Jimmy and Kim ending scenes we’re supposed to be super emotionally charged but I felt nothing for either of them or for whatever love they ambiguously may or may not still feel for each other. The shadow Line of the window bar traced a path across both of them simultaneously while they were in the cell. Downward if traced toward Jimmy, upward if traced toward Kim. And I guess it was a remake of their first scene of the series together horking cigs, but I wasn’t really happy or sad or excited to see them together. It just felt flat and pointless to me. And no music? The last scenes of Saul behind the fence seemed like it was begging for the perfect song with the perfect lyrics to stir some emotions for the series conclusion mic drop, but nothing. Just dead silence in black and white. Was that supposed to feel powerful and emotional?
I don’t know. I didn’t really feel anything. Jimmy dropped the Saul disguise out of nowhere on a dime to tie everything up in a neat little bow and Kim is now back in the fight and can have an opinion on Red Lobster. Alright. Okay. Sure
I guess my point is that after turning Kim into a bitter spiteful cold blooded con junkie on a dime, the finale is about right. I don’t see much else they could have done after going in that odd direction in season 5
I liked the flashbacks a lot and how they were tied to “The Time Machine “ book that Jimmy kept on his bedside table all those years. They blew it by announcing the Walt & Jessie cameos ahead of time though. It would have been ten times better if you weren’t expecting it. That’s why the Chuck flashback was the best one. Wasn’t expecting that one at all, and seeing the two brothers in peacetime and realizing that they did both actually love each other at one point was about the closest I came to feeling any kind of emotion in the finale other than just being sad that it’s over
Clearly the Jimmy and Kim ending scenes we’re supposed to be super emotionally charged but I felt nothing for either of them or for whatever love they ambiguously may or may not still feel for each other. The shadow Line of the window bar traced a path across both of them simultaneously while they were in the cell. Downward if traced toward Jimmy, upward if traced toward Kim. And I guess it was a remake of their first scene of the series together horking cigs, but I wasn’t really happy or sad or excited to see them together. It just felt flat and pointless to me. And no music? The last scenes of Saul behind the fence seemed like it was begging for the perfect song with the perfect lyrics to stir some emotions for the series conclusion mic drop, but nothing. Just dead silence in black and white. Was that supposed to feel powerful and emotional?
I don’t know. I didn’t really feel anything. Jimmy dropped the Saul disguise out of nowhere on a dime to tie everything up in a neat little bow and Kim is now back in the fight and can have an opinion on Red Lobster. Alright. Okay. Sure
Posted on 8/16/22 at 12:17 pm to Jefferson Dawg
I don't get how saul's courtroom confession insulates kim in any way from a civil suit from mrs Hamlin based on her affidavit. Now he's gone for life and she's still screwed.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 12:58 pm to Jefferson Dawg
I am with Jefferson Dawg on this one.
I am trying to like it.
I guess Breaking Bad last few episodes being what they were (flat out amazing writing) my bar was high I guess.
I enjoyed it but still processing...
I am trying to like it.
I guess Breaking Bad last few episodes being what they were (flat out amazing writing) my bar was high I guess.
I enjoyed it but still processing...
Posted on 8/16/22 at 1:09 pm to Jefferson Dawg
I agree they wrapped it up in really the best way possible. Death wouldn't be fitting for saul (or kim) so I'm glad that wasn't in the cards. Jimmy HAD to get caught though, you can't just let him get away scot free living as Gene forever. He eventaully faced the music on his transgressions, gave up Saul forever and reverted back to good ol Jimmy Mcgill, and will serve out his life in jail where he really probably belongs. It's fitting.
I also agree that it seemed to kinda limp to the finish. But I don't neccessarily fault the show for it. The early part of the season was cartel heavy and you had Lalo/gus/mike doing cartel stuff and it was action packed. Once that storylin resolved you had heavy Kim plots with not only her legal life but also their scam with howard. Once that resolved what else was left? At it's most fundamentla, simple level this entire show was supposed to be about how James McGill turned into Saul goodman. Once all that other stuff was warpped up all that was left was to wrap up the jimmy/saul storyline both in BB-era as well as post-BB/Gene era.
It's not my favorite finale Iv'e ever watched but I find it hard to conjure up any hate for it. At the season 6 mid-way break sevearl months back I think many BCS viewers would put it up there right alongside BB in quality, so I don't see why 6 episodes of slightly diminished quality would take it from an elite tier A+ show down to a failure. Still a wonderful show and a hell of a ride overall, even if it did go out with a whimper rather than a bang.
I also agree that it seemed to kinda limp to the finish. But I don't neccessarily fault the show for it. The early part of the season was cartel heavy and you had Lalo/gus/mike doing cartel stuff and it was action packed. Once that storylin resolved you had heavy Kim plots with not only her legal life but also their scam with howard. Once that resolved what else was left? At it's most fundamentla, simple level this entire show was supposed to be about how James McGill turned into Saul goodman. Once all that other stuff was warpped up all that was left was to wrap up the jimmy/saul storyline both in BB-era as well as post-BB/Gene era.
It's not my favorite finale Iv'e ever watched but I find it hard to conjure up any hate for it. At the season 6 mid-way break sevearl months back I think many BCS viewers would put it up there right alongside BB in quality, so I don't see why 6 episodes of slightly diminished quality would take it from an elite tier A+ show down to a failure. Still a wonderful show and a hell of a ride overall, even if it did go out with a whimper rather than a bang.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 1:21 pm to WG_Dawg
They should have left the Kim affidavit out of it. That part of the story line A: didn't make any sense and B: fricked up the story. The story line about Saul getting busted, but then negotiating his way down to 7 years in Club Fed would have been a great wrap up. He gets busted, goes to federal prison, only for 7 years but lets face it, he never actually killed anyone or injured anyone, he did enjoy the money from the cartel but the other side of the story about being forced to work for them at the point of a gun was also true.
If we want a Kim reunification, I can think of several ways to reintroduce her into the mix without her taking out an affidavit to confess for something (how many years ago?) to get her back into the story. And for what, so she can share one last stogie with Jimmy in the line shadows before going back to Griffindawg's sweaty dick, the sprinkler shop, the legal aid volunteer office, and shitty friends?
I'm not even trying to like it. It was disappointing. The first half of the finale was great, wrapped up shittily and felt really lazy.
If we want a Kim reunification, I can think of several ways to reintroduce her into the mix without her taking out an affidavit to confess for something (how many years ago?) to get her back into the story. And for what, so she can share one last stogie with Jimmy in the line shadows before going back to Griffindawg's sweaty dick, the sprinkler shop, the legal aid volunteer office, and shitty friends?
I'm not even trying to like it. It was disappointing. The first half of the finale was great, wrapped up shittily and felt really lazy.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 6:21 am to deeprig9
Saul Goodman was treated unfairly. Pfizer and Moderna can deal drugs, kill people, not get in any trouble and earn billions.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 8:15 am to deeprig9
quote:
negotiating his way down to 7 years in Club Fed would have been a great wrap up
This. This right here.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 1:27 pm to agentoranj1990
quote:
I really liked the finale. It wasn't as satisfying as El Camino but it was appropriate. Saul said it himself to the security guard - he had no one. I wanted more exciting fugitive scenes but that didn't fit into the themes they had been preparing. Saul needed redemption and to get Kim back. At first he pulls his Saul con and gets 7 years, but then he realizes he can redeem himself and spare Kim. In the end he has his dignity and apparently gets Kim back. They mention good behavior and with Kim being his lawyer it leaves it open that he could get out earlier.
Few problems here.
1: kim doesn't get spared from anything based in anything saul confessed. We already heard she wouldn't be prosecuted but was open to a civil suit. Nothing saul confessed changes any of that.
2: there is no early release for good behavior in the federal pen. That's a state/county thing. In federal prosecution, you only get out early with a commutation (rod blagoyavich) or snitching to get someone else prosecuted and convicted, someone really important. And as we know he'd be murdered real quick in prison if he went that route. And any important figure he'd have real goods on is already removed from the story/dead/already busted.
3: kim still isn't a lawyer. The jail let her in because they don't update their lawyer access lists, according to kim. Her work at the legal aid office is paperwork paralegal stuff.
4: not specific to your post, but how/why would the Albuquerque assistant DA call kim to "warn" her about sauls plea hearing? Doesn't make sense.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 2:10 pm to deeprig9
quote:
I don't get how saul's courtroom confession insulates kim in any way from a civil suit from mrs Hamlin based on her affidavit. Now he's gone for life and she's still screwed
I dont think its suppose to protect her from that. I beleive the civil suit plays into how they want us to imagine Kim in the future
And that’s where Kim’s pro bono fetish for the downtrodden and disenfranchised comes in. Its also why they showed florida twilightzone zone Kim show up to volunteer at the free law clinic for the oppressed. Both of these things are the two main clues for how they want us to imagine Kim’s future.
We’re left watching Kim walk out of the prison into the future armed with the knowledge that 1) she has slowly dipped her toe back into the pro bono side of the law profession on a volunteer basis, and 2) that she has the civil suit hanging over her that will, according to Bill Oakley, “take everything shes got or will ever have, in perpetuity”.
So, as punishment for her crimes against Howard, she will never have a material life ever again due to the widow’s civil suit. But….the silver lining is supposed to be that her passion was always the super righteous pro bono work anyway. And now she will use her talents to submerse herself into it full time and with near zero compensation for it. Not some Guitar lawyer funded probono practice running off donations from other guilty-feeling elites where she would have kept a 6 figure salary and a swank office.
Kim’s future was pretty much revealed to us in the finale. She will assume a role similiar to that of the overweight workaholic lady at the florida volunteer law clinic. A tireless and super rigjteous defender of the downtrodden forgotten victims of the man and the system. She will almost be Christ-like now.
Thanks a lot Kim fans. This is the ending we get because you worshipped the Kim character so blindly. And so they tried to turn her into some sort of religious figure going on a journey of atonement. Zzz zzzz zzzz
Posted on 8/17/22 at 2:24 pm to deeprig9
quote:
4: not specific to your post, but how/why would the Albuquerque assistant DA call kim to "warn" her about sauls plea hearing? Doesn't make sense.
Saul wanted Kim at the hearing, so he pulled one last con. (Read that also as: the writers needed Kim to be at the hearing) so…
Saul lied to Oakley in front of the air marshall about having some inside info on Kim’s real role, which resulted in the the assistant DA calling Kim, which resulted in Kim flying to Albequerque to be in attendance at the hearing.
Then once Saul starts his performance in court, he admits that it was just a trick to get her there.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 2:37 pm to Jefferson Dawg
quote:
Saul lied to Oakley in front of the air marshall about having some inside info on Kim’s real role, which resulted in the the assistant DA calling Kim, which resulted in Kim flying to Albequerque to be in attendance at the hearing.
Yes I understood that Saul was bullshitting in front of the air marshal. But why would a federal marshal's notation of a couple sentences trickle down to the DA and for that DA to actually contact Kim. But it's TV, so OK... but what is the DA's motivation to then track down and reach out to Kim in Florida to gossip about it?
Posted on 8/17/22 at 2:56 pm to deeprig9
quote:
OK... but what is the DA's motivation to then track down and reach out to Kim in Florida to gossip about it?
I agree its a pretty thin plot.
But the writers needed Kim to come to the hearing, and the DA lady would have Kim’s florida contact info. Also in the first episode this season, they established that Kim had a sympathetic relationship with DA lady when she pulled her into her office to let her know that there was suspicion that her husband Jimmy knew that Lalo really wasnt whatever fake alias he pretended to be to get bailed out, so maybe we’re supposed to think of them as friends
It still doesnt make perfect sense though. Especially after Kim just confessed to being a piece of shite con artist that tried to ruin a colleagues life and got him killed. DA lady no,doubt knew Howard too. But, they had to get her in the courthouse for the final Saul/Jimmy atonement performance somehow
Posted on 8/17/22 at 3:24 pm to Jefferson Dawg
In S1E2, I think, he's out in the desert with Tuco negotiating for the release of himself and the two skater punks. He keeps going on about "justice" and "tough but fair." You mean like an eye for an eye? Yeah we'll cut their eyes out! No No, the punishment should fit the crime. Tough, but fair. They agree just to break their legs and drive them to the hospital.
And let's think about that whole encounter. S1E1 is when Saul gets punked by the skaters. Then he sets them up to punk Betsy, but they mark the wrong vehicle. Tuco's grandmother. That's where it all starts for Saul. Everything starts there.
At the end, he negotiates himself down to 7 years in the penitentiary. Tough, but fair. Let the punishment fit the crime. Saul never killed anyone. Never assaulted anyone. Never encouraged anyone to kill or assault or steal from anyone. He had the chance to rip off the Kettlemen's, didn't do it. He had the chance to rip off Lalo. He didn't do it. I may need to rewatch BB but I think his role was really just a sleazebag attorney who was doing his work at the point of a gun in reality. At the end of BCS, he has no more cash stash, no more diamonds, no burner phone stashes. No more job a cinnabon. No more get out of jail free card to the vacuum salesman. Go to prison for 7 years, tough but fair.
Kim still could have magically showed up at the hearing, in fact it would have been much more organic for her to show up of her own volition, still cares about Jimmy, and can hear about it through the grapevine from the asst DA. It can still be dramatic. She can still sneak into the pen and have one last smoke-a-roonie. They are good writers, they can write some other shite in if they need to. But they stepped off the cliff with how they actually ended it. In my opinion.
And let's think about that whole encounter. S1E1 is when Saul gets punked by the skaters. Then he sets them up to punk Betsy, but they mark the wrong vehicle. Tuco's grandmother. That's where it all starts for Saul. Everything starts there.
At the end, he negotiates himself down to 7 years in the penitentiary. Tough, but fair. Let the punishment fit the crime. Saul never killed anyone. Never assaulted anyone. Never encouraged anyone to kill or assault or steal from anyone. He had the chance to rip off the Kettlemen's, didn't do it. He had the chance to rip off Lalo. He didn't do it. I may need to rewatch BB but I think his role was really just a sleazebag attorney who was doing his work at the point of a gun in reality. At the end of BCS, he has no more cash stash, no more diamonds, no burner phone stashes. No more job a cinnabon. No more get out of jail free card to the vacuum salesman. Go to prison for 7 years, tough but fair.
Kim still could have magically showed up at the hearing, in fact it would have been much more organic for her to show up of her own volition, still cares about Jimmy, and can hear about it through the grapevine from the asst DA. It can still be dramatic. She can still sneak into the pen and have one last smoke-a-roonie. They are good writers, they can write some other shite in if they need to. But they stepped off the cliff with how they actually ended it. In my opinion.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 3:32 pm to djrichiep
quote:
negotiating his way down to 7 years in Club Fed would have been a great wrap up
They wanted the Lines to be drawn all the way back to Jimmy McGill though.
The series trajectory line went from Jimmy to Saul to Gene. Then in the finale, in one episode, the line went from Gene to Saul to Jimmy again.
Gene was a criminal thief piece of shite nearly capable of strangling a sweet old lady with a symbolic phone line at the begining of the episode. Gene gets arrested and its like throwing a fish into water because he almost immediately becomes Saul. Saul is a master criminal defense attorney, and once again is able to work his magic to reduce his client’s (himself this time) sentence down to 7 years. Which the judge says is the sweetest deal shes seen in her career. So Saul is a damn fine attorney even though Chuck said he would never be. But then Saul at the height of his post-getting -caught hubris and arrogance (literally in an airplane at 30,000 feet) after playing the prosecution like a fiddle in the United States vs Saul Ggoman case, he learns what Kim did with her confession. So then and there he decides to do the same. And then we watch him start off giving one final Saul Goodman performance, but he slowly turns back into Jimmy by the end of it through a sweeping confession. While Kim sits staring shheepish and blankly like she’s equal parts sedated and severely constipated.
>_______Jimmy > Saul > Gene > Saul > Jimmy __________
_____________________________________________________________>
The universe is shaped exactly like the earth. If you go straight long enough, you end up where you were
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