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re: Johnson defense???

Posted on 12/4/13 at 1:33 pm to
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25806 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

One thing is for sure given the season we just had and our defensive showing it would be a miracle turnaround for us to win doing the same thing on Defense next season.


Dave Steckel turned around Missouri's defense in 1 season. Lord knows that Missouri has the 'fire happy' fans on their side that wanted pinkel and steckel gone. They said he's too nice. Too loyal. Always the brides maid and never the bride.
Go figure.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25806 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

THREE games would have easily been won and in the fourth against Mizzou who knows, but I'd take being 11-1 over 8-4 any day.


BS.
Ellis couldn't do anything for all of the inexperience that we had at safety.

Playing freshmen at safety is like spotting the opponent 14 points. Especially when it's more than 1 freshman.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25806 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 1:37 pm to
How well did his defense defend UGA while at South Carolina.

Not too great if my memory recollects.

He's a good coach. But understandably with the frustration currently in our fanbase, he's over-rated. I don't think he's better than Willie Martinez. When he has a pass rush (with 4), he'l make opponents pay. When that pass rush struggles, the defense can't do anything right.
Posted by WoodstockDawg
Woodstock, GA
Member since Oct 2012
85 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

What say you Dawg nation?


Meh. He had a lot of help, including their schedule and low expectations.

Posted by Padawgjr
Member since Sep 2012
1017 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

Yeah Grantham and Saban have different philosophies. Grantham runs a one gap I believe and is exteremely Blitz heavy. I'm not sure if Saban runs a one or two gap, but the difference schematically is that he doesn't blitz as much. He's more about maintaining gap integrity. Discipline.


The 3-4 uses 1 or 2 gap depending on the formation and situation. 1 gap is used more for run stopping and 2 gap is used more for pass rush. Either way, the 3-4 defense is not an overall good defense against the pass. Unless, you can get to the QB. This is what Grantham tries to do. He rushes a LB on every play and that's what makes the 3-4 work. Any of our LB's can blitz and the QB doesn't know where it's coming from on any given play, because we can bring 1, 2, 3, or 4 LB's on any given down. In the 1 gap the NT is in a 1Tech and the End will be in a 4Tech, creating a large gap in the line for the ILB's to clog up. In the 2 gap, the line is more centered, with the NT in the 1Tech and the Ends in a 3Tech. This creates two gaps with the ILB's covering the gaps. The 1 gap allows us to use more personell on the D-Line and doesn't require us to have a HUGE NT. That's why we have used more of it this year. Last year we had Big John taking on the Double Teams and this year we really don't have a "true" NT. So, we will naturally will use more 1 gap than 2. Discipline is more related to the secondary, since the SS makes most of the calls and reads in this type of set up. Our SS has been out most of the year and without SW we have lost a bunch of experience back there.
Posted by GeorgiaBoy
Member since Sep 2013
1982 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 3:55 pm to
When Grantham came to UGA, he described his version of the 3/4 as "disguised pressure coming from all over the place". I've only seen that in the 4th qtr of Auburn and most the Kentucky game. Usually, he only brings 3 or 4. Not hard for the qb to figure that out.
Posted by FaCubeItches
Soviet Monica, People's Republic CA
Member since Sep 2012
5875 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 3:58 pm to
quote:

Honestly I bet he's a bad father and husband as well. If he has kids and hasn't eaten them yet.


I heard he threw at his own kid in a father-son game.
-Harry Doyle
Posted by FaCubeItches
Soviet Monica, People's Republic CA
Member since Sep 2012
5875 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 4:01 pm to
quote:

So if Ellis is doable


Might be cute enough after 5-6 beers. Or am I misreading you?
Posted by Padawgjr
Member since Sep 2012
1017 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

When Grantham came to UGA, he described his version of the 3/4 as "disguised pressure coming from all over the place". I've only seen that in the 4th qtr of Auburn and most the Kentucky game. Usually, he only brings 3 or 4. Not hard for the qb to figure that out.


It is hard, because we use delayed blitzing and we show pressure from everywhere. There is no way a QB can tell where the pressure is actually coming from. If we start getting picked apart, that's when we resort to blitzing from the secondary. This makes it much more difficult to detect where the pressure is going to come from than just bringing LB's. Trust me man, Grantham is doing what he can, but he's just holding our DB's back by not making his secondary simpler. If he did, they would play much faster and know who they are supposed to cover first and where they are going after the first read. We are fine if the QB throws to the first read. We get burned when he hits the 3rd or 4th guy. Great QB's will always throw all day on a young/inexperianced secondary. 4-3 is much more difficult to pass on. Plus more HS teams run it, so that's what these young guys are used to.
Posted by coondawg
Greene County
Member since Nov 2012
18 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 4:25 pm to
Spunky? Like to hear your input on this one
Posted by dallasga6
Scrap Metal Magnate...
Member since Mar 2009
25674 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 4:44 pm to
< snicker >
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25806 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 5:24 pm to
quote:

The 3-4 uses 1 or 2 gap depending on the formation and situation. 1 gap is used more for run stopping and 2 gap is used more for pass rush. Either way, the 3-4 defense is not an overall good defense against the pass. Unless, you can get to the QB. This is what Grantham tries to do. He rushes a LB on every play and that's what makes the 3-4 work. Any of our LB's can blitz and the QB doesn't know where it's coming from on any given play, because we can bring 1, 2, 3, or 4 LB's on any given down. In the 1 gap the NT is in a 1Tech and the End will be in a 4Tech, creating a large gap in the line for the ILB's to clog up. In the 2 gap, the line is more centered, with the NT in the 1Tech and the Ends in a 3Tech. This creates two gaps with the ILB's covering the gaps. The 1 gap allows us to use more personell on the D-Line and doesn't require us to have a HUGE NT. That's why we have used more of it this year. Last year we had Big John taking on the Double Teams and this year we really don't have a "true" NT. So, we will naturally will use more 1 gap than 2. Discipline is more related to the secondary, since the SS makes most of the calls and reads in this type of set up. Our SS has been out most of the year and without SW we have lost a bunch of experience back there.


Differences of opionion, I guess. But I don't agree with you. Partially because you're describing a 3-4 defense when we are in nickel 80% of the time. Partially, because I have a different take on the schemes.

1 gap is more of a pass rushing defense. Your DL are trying to slice into the backfield. Penetrate. Get in the QB's face. The 2 gap is more of a reactive, take up space, stand your ground defense. It's more built to defend the run because a 1 gap assignment makes it easy for the OL to seal off a defender for huge running lanes.

I also think your techniques are off.
3-4 defensive ends are usually in a 4 or 5 technique (over or outside the tackle).

We typically have the nose tackle in the zero technique when we are in our base 3-4.
Almost all of the time that you see our nose not in the zero technique, we are running a nickel defense.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25806 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 5:26 pm to
quote:


It is hard, because we use delayed blitzing and we show pressure from everywhere. There is no way a QB can tell where the pressure is actually coming from. If we start getting picked apart, that's when we resort to blitzing from the secondary. This makes it much more difficult to detect where the pressure is going to come from than just bringing LB's. Trust me man, Grantham is doing what he can, but he's just holding our DB's back by not making his secondary simpler. If he did, they would play much faster and know who they are supposed to cover first and where they are going after the first read. We are fine if the QB throws to the first read. We get burned when he hits the 3rd or 4th guy. Great QB's will always throw all day on a young/inexperianced secondary. 4-3 is much more difficult to pass on. Plus more HS teams run it, so that's what these young guys are used to.


Again... I disagree. The theory of the 3-4 is that you can send any linebacker.

But when are we going to put Jordan Jenkins into pass coverage responsibilities? Or Jarvis Jones? Or Justin Houston?
There are some guys that are just bred to be pass rushers. And we would drop them back maybe 20+% of the time.

Keep in mind as well... we're in nickel over 80% of the time and our OLBs are essentially lining up as a DE in the 4 man front.
Posted by Padawgjr
Member since Sep 2012
1017 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 8:12 pm to
The weak OLB is the rush guy, this is why we use guys like Jenkins, JJ, and Housten (Housten played more strong). They are considered a undersized DE, with speed. The strong OLB is going to be the cover guy, he can blitz, man up, or drop into a zone. That's why we use guys like Floyd. This creates an unbalanced/"Hybrid" defensive line that we play on a regular basis. We do this because, once again, we don't have a true NT. So, we improvise with regular DL and weak OLB's. Thus, creating a 4 down lineman look. Floyd is almost always standing up unless he is lined up on a TE. Do some research man. It shouldn't be this hard to explain basic 3-4 alignment to a fan of your caliber. Here are basic LB positions for dummies, in a 3-4 scheme.

quote:

Another set of terms we have to discuss is the names we use to identify the four LBs. In a 4-3 its easy: WILL, MIKE, and SAM. Rarely do you still see 4-3 teams denote them as Razor (right OLB), MIKE, and Lazor (left OLB), but it is possible in some schemes. In the 3-4, there are a few more possibilities for their names, but I’ll define them the way I learned them. The weak inside LB is MIKE, the strongside inside LB is TED, the weakside outside LB is JACK, and the strongside SAM. Older schemes use the terms RUSH and DROP to denote outside LBs, since one usually blitzes and one drops into coverage almost always. RUSH would be JACK in my terminology and the DROP LB is SAM. Another term for TED is MAC or WILL. JACK is a hybrid player, more like a small DE who is not heavy enough to play DE in the NFL or major college ball. Usually he’ll be very quick and fleet of foot, but the lack of weight makes him a liability to a 4-3 defense against the run. To play DE every down you need weight so the Tackle isn’t pushing a feather. The SAM is the bulkier of the two outside ‘backers and needs to be more fluid and able to cover TEs yet also maintain leverage against reach blocks from Tackles and Tight Ends (TE). Of the two inside ‘backers, MIKE is the true prototype linebacker. He has to be the stronger one and able to withstand blocks from offensive linemen most often. He needs to have strong instincts and a high football IQ. MIKE is commonly a 2-gap defender, no matter what defense you run. TED is usually going to be a little smaller and better in pass coverage, but still an excellent tackler.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25806 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 8:21 pm to
you say that we can send any linebacker... then you say that we send the weakside linebacker (Houston, Jarvis, Jordan).

That's my point. We don't send "any" linebacker.
We send the Will 80% of the time while in base.

The other issue is that you're describing the 3-4 defense when we play it less than 20% of the time.

Why bother going into it if we're not in this defensive package against anyone but Tech and N Texas?
Posted by Padawgjr
Member since Sep 2012
1017 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 8:38 pm to
Will is the Weak ILB, for christ sakes. We can send any LB, but it will come from the outside most of the time. This gives the Mike and Will the ability to take care of the gaps. Why the hell do you think Herrera and Wilson lead the SEC in tackles? It's because that's where the ball carrier is forced to go. This is the basis of stopping the run in the 3-4 MS. I know it's tough to understand, but do a little research on our beloved Dawgs and you will understand. It's all good man, you can learn something though.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25806 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 9:13 pm to
you're cute.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25806 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 9:14 pm to
you do realize that 80% of Herrera and Wilson's tackles are in the nickel, right?
Posted by Padawgjr
Member since Sep 2012
1017 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 9:27 pm to
It's not nickel man. It's a HYBRID D. Nickel uses more than 4 fricken DB's. We do not put 4 DB's on the field in cover 6! What the crap are you talking about. Nickel comes from having 5 DB's on the field and eliminating the SAM. We don't do this, unless we have to and that is rare. Grantham would rather bring 7 than drop 5-6 and that is because he does not trust his secondary! I'm done trying to explain D to the definition of ignorant. Read and your head may not explode. LINK
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25806 posts
Posted on 12/4/13 at 9:33 pm to
LOL

You do realize that Josh Harvey Clemmons is a defensive back, right?
That makes 5 defensive backs in our nickel (same as last year with Swann... and the year before with Boykin).

You also realize that John Jenkins DID NOT play nose tackle in our 3-4 defense after Abry Jones got hurt (ie. he wasn't nose for the last 9 games in 2012). He played NT/DT in our nickel. But he was a 4 or 5 technique DE in our base (Kwame played all of the nose tackle after Abry was hurt).

You don't realize that we are in nickel 80% of the time (except against N Texas and Georgia Tech). We don't have to go there because you aren't catching on to what we've been doing defensively for the past 4 seasons.

I haven't read 1 of your links, but I have to say that I would be impressed if everything you know about our defense didn't come from wikipedia.
This post was edited on 12/4/13 at 9:35 pm
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