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re: Image found on Twitter - Brent H. @gridirondawg
Posted on 7/6/21 at 9:56 pm to SneakyWaff1es
Posted on 7/6/21 at 9:56 pm to SneakyWaff1es
quote:
I'm 99% sure you're less qualified than they are to give me advice on this.
Yawn. I could say the same thing to you. Are these “smart and educated people” medical doctors? Because the peer reviewed consensus among medical doctors is that you should get vaccinated.
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Posted on 7/6/21 at 10:11 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
You are worried about the long term effects of the virus but not of a vaccine that has not been vetted,
Yes, I am. Aren’t you? You can’t rage about how “reeeeee China Virus engineered bioweapons lab, why isn’t Biden investigating!!!!!” on the one hand, and then be like “oh, the virus is just little sniffles” on the other hand. The cognitive dissonance is too loud.
quote:
and we know has caused problems in younger people
Yes, in infinitesimal percentages. This is like the autism argument about vaccines that the filthy Oregon hippies make. Taking the fact that it may happen on an extremely rare basis as an argument that nobody should get it, totally ignoring the high likelihood of a beneficial prophylaxis.
quote:
I'll bet you are for a woman's right to do with her own body as she wishes but not for our right to our own bodies. You want to control what we do, think, eat and it goes on and on
I don’t view this on a moral level like you do, but rather a practical one. If you get (or don’t get) an abortion, it doesn’t affect me. If contract a virus, you could transmit it, which could affect me, especially if you are the vector that creates a vaccine-resistant variant. If viruses weren’t transmissible, I wouldn’t give two shits about whether you vaccinated or not. I understand your sentiment, but that’s not how I view it.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 4:42 am to baconwaffle
quote:Why yes. A couple are. Are you?
Are these “smart and educated people” medical doctors?
quote:You could but you'd be stupid. Mostly because I gave no advice. I'm not qualified to give advice. I just said there's no long term safety data.
I could say the same thing to you.
quote:Link one of these peer reviewed studies please.
Because the peer reviewed consensus among medical doctors
Posted on 7/7/21 at 5:06 am to baconwaffle
quote:
Yes, I am. Aren’t you? You can’t rage about how “reeeeee China Virus engineered bioweapons lab, why isn’t Biden investigating!!!!!” on the one hand, and then be like “oh, the virus is just little sniffles” on the other hand. The cognitive dissonance is too loud.
No, I am not. Do you think there is a reason science says we must have 1+ years of testing before they put medicines out for public use? Why do you think this is a rule? Hint: To ensure it's effectiveness and safety.
quote:Actually until time passes we don't know what the percentages are. Only time will tell if these problems will become "infitisimal" or become true in 80-100% of patients.
Yes, in infinitesimal percentages. This is like the autism argument about vaccines that the filthy Oregon hippies make. Taking the fact that it may happen on an extremely rare basis as an argument that nobody should get it, totally ignoring the high likelihood of a beneficial prophylaxis.
quote:What makes you think I look at it on a moral level? I look at it at a "It's my body and I should have control over my body.
I don’t view this on a moral level like you do,
quote:If you have been vaccinated and you get the virus why did you get vaccinated?
If contract a virus, you could transmit it, which could affect me,
Posted on 7/7/21 at 6:12 am to DawgsLife
Because his Lord and Savior Biden told him to of course. Libs can’t think for themselves
Posted on 7/7/21 at 8:06 am to DawgsLife
quote:
You are worried about the long term effects of the virus but not of a vaccine that has not been vetted
I think there's valid concern for both. But what we've actually seen in the shorter term, which also informs us of things to look at in the longer term, shows us that the virus would seem to be of greater concern.
quote:
and we know has caused problems in younger people?
We do? Myo and pericarditis? Conditions that are, like most inflammatory responses, part of normal immune responses stemming from both natural infections and vaccines alike? Making this claim without any real context is the kind of stuff that classifies as fear-mongering. What has been observed in young adults after these vaccines has been mild and everyone experiencing it has, so far, fully recovered without intervention.
quote:
I'll bet you are for a woman's right to do with her own body as she wishes but not for our right to our own bodies. You want to control what we do, think, eat and it goes on and on.
I haven't read through this whole thread, nor will I waste my time with it, so I don't know what Bacon has said. I personally don't care what you do or don't do. Get it. Don't get it. Isn't changing how I live my life. All of this will eventually blow over. The sky screamers will keep screaming for a while, but this, too, shall pass.
Enjoy your day.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 8:16 am to S1C EM
quote:It can't blow over fast enough. However, at least if what's happening in my facility right now is any indication, it's going to be at least another season. We're getting a pretty good spike in positive tests; vaccinated and unvaccinated alike. Vaccinated people seem to have less severe symptoms but they're still getting sick.
All of this will eventually blow over.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 8:39 am to SneakyWaff1es
quote:
It can't blow over fast enough.
I get it. But just like masks and not having people working together in person, it will. I work for a USG institution and most of us here have been back since last May, me since April. Faculty are still MIA, but they've been told they're to report as normal in August. We'll see how that goes. But we all dropped mask use as soon as the CDC cleared us to.
quote:
However, at least if what's happening in my facility right now is any indication, it's going to be at least another season. We're getting a pretty good spike in positive tests; vaccinated and unvaccinated alike. Vaccinated people seem to have less severe symptoms but they're still getting sick.
Meh.....it could. I don't expect any significant spikes. Areas with lower vaccination rates are currently seeing some, but otherwise, I think enough people have now been either vaccinated or infected to effectively break the vector chain. Cases/hopsitalizations/deaths will still occur, but those data points are steadily collapsing. And no, vaccination doesn't mean you can't get sick. I've never understood why anyone epxected that. They have never been touted as 100% effective. That said, they have been exceptionally good at preventing infection and spread to others, but most importantly, they prevent severe outcomes. You can get a vaccine for anything and technically still test positive for that pathogen at some point. The question is, were you sick and, if so, how sick? One of my kids came down with flu A and B concurrently a couple of years ago. Had the flu vaccine. He was sick, but would likely have been a lot worse minus the vaccine. Any boost you can give to your natural immune response is going to be helpful in getting better faster. The expectation that if you're vaccinated, you shouldn't get it is flawed. It's all about reducing severe outcomes if/when you do get it or at least become exposed.
This post was edited on 7/7/21 at 8:41 am
Posted on 7/7/21 at 9:00 am to S1C EM
quote:We're going to have to agree to disagree about preventing infection.
they have been exceptionally good at preventing infection and spread to others
quote:I'm 100% in agreement with this.
they prevent severe outcomes.
I don't care about people wearing masks or getting vaccinated. Wear it. Don't wear it. Get vaccinated or don't. I'm just very tired of the politicizing of this. It's ridiculous.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 9:23 am to SneakyWaff1es
quote:
We're going to have to agree to disagree about preventing infection.
I understand given your current situation and I'm not going to challenge you on it. There are details that I don't really know about your experience and what you're seeing, but I would still point out that compared to the full body of research that exists, this is still anecdotal. And as much as I don't want to mention it, it could be variant-related, too. I would be interested to know more, for sure, but I don't think it changes anything in the bigger picture.
quote:
I don't care about people wearing masks or getting vaccinated. Wear it. Don't wear it. Get vaccinated or don't. I'm just very tired of the politicizing of this. It's ridiculous.
I'm with you. None of this should have ever become political. Your idelogy shouldn't have ever been defined by a mask or a vaccine. It's both nuts and, honestly, disappointing to see.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 9:48 am to S1C EM
quote:It is and like I said....I'm not pushing any of my experience on anyone else. This is just what I see from my little part of the facility I work for.
this is still anecdotal.
quote:Meh. People seem to not understand how an immune system works. Your antibodies are inside. Viruses have to make it inside before your immune system can make a response and if your immune system isn't as good at making antibodies as the virus is at replicating, you're going to have a few days of being sick. I understand some variants could be better at replication than others but I think the variants being talked about in the news as if they're some super virus are just another politicization of the coof. Too many federal agencies went through a lot of hoops to get vaccines approved for these vaccines to be ineffective. Maybe ineffective is the wrong term. Less effective than advertised?
it could be variant-related, too.
Either way, this is easily the most ridiculous thing I've lived through. I'm 40 and I've tried looking back to see if the hysteria surrounding this is something I've seen before and I can't think of anything. People that I know to be rational, smart people lost all sense of reason over the last year. I don't know how anything could be less black and white yet people act like there's no middle ground. Either masks and the vaccine are completely useless or you need both plus a helmet or you're a monster.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 9:48 am to S1C EM
quote:
I think there's valid concern for both. But what we've actually seen in the shorter term, which also informs us of things to look at in the longer term, shows us that the virus would seem to be of greater concern.
Hardly. In the short term we have seen people that are vaccinated get the virus again. We have seen that the virus has caused myocarditis and pericarditis. You can say it's a small number, but if they counted those cases like they have been counting the number of deaths from Covid the numbers would spike.
quote:So we are going to take numbers of covid at face value and discount other data. Both sets come from the CDC. Why is one discounted while the other taken as gospel?
We do? Myo and pericarditis? Conditions that are, like most inflammatory responses, part of normal immune responses stemming from both natural infections and vaccines alike? Making this claim without any real context is the kind of stuff that classifies as fear-mongering. What has been observed in young adults after these vaccines has been mild and everyone experiencing it has, so far, fully recovered without intervention.
quote:Actually this is the whole point. Don't force anybody to get it. Let them make their own decision and stop imposing their own wants on everybody else.
I haven't read through this whole thread, nor will I waste my time with it, so I don't know what Bacon has said. I personally don't care what you do or don't do. Get it. Don't get it. Isn't changing how I live my life. All of this will eventually blow over. The sky screamers will keep screaming for a while, but this, too, shall pass.
I guess you heard Biden is proposing that the government go door to door to "encourage" people to get vaccinated. How in the world do they know who got vaccinated and who didn't? Talk about Big Brother and the nanny state.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 10:02 am to SneakyWaff1es
quote:
Meh. People seem to not understand how an immune system works. Your antibodies are inside. Viruses have to make it inside before your immune system can make a response and if your immune system isn't as good at making antibodies as the virus is at replicating, you're going to have a few days of being sick. I understand some variants could be better at replication than others but I think the variants being talked about in the news as if they're some super virus are just another politicization of the coof.
I get it. And what you’re saying at the end there is more my point. Variants could be better at replication, which likely has a lot to do with their “greater transmissibility.” No, I don’t think any of them are “super-bugs” at all. And I don’t think we’ll see that, either. Hanging that over people’s heads is why no one trusts the media at this point.
quote:
People that I know to be rational, smart people lost all sense of reason over the last year. I don't know how anything could be less black and white yet people act like there's no middle ground. Either masks and the vaccine are completely useless or you need both plus a helmet or you're a monster.
Exactly this. Nailed it.
I’ve been at work through the whole thing, but now vaccinated, I’ll only wear a mask where I’m explicitly asked to, out of respect. Otherwise, life is pretty normal for us. I’ve read the studies and I understand statistics, so I have trust in the vaccine doing what it’s supposed to do. I had titers added to recent blood work just to confirm, so I’m good. What anyone else does or doesn’t do is entirely up to them.
ETA: as to your work situation, one question I would love to see the answer to is the breakdown of the vaccinated individuals and which vaccine they received.
This post was edited on 7/7/21 at 10:05 am
Posted on 7/7/21 at 10:26 am to S1C EM
quote:I'm a critical care nurse. They don't give us those numbers. We do get a weekly email that tells us how many people we have inpatient with the coof and how many are in the ICU. We have more inpatient than we have since February.
would love to see the answer to is the breakdown of the vaccinated individuals and which vaccine they received.
Last year I worked in our covid testing unit a lot when our census was low and I've kept in touch with a few of the permanent staff there. They tell me 30ish% of our positives were vaccinated and most of the vaccinated people got Pfizer.
One of the people I cared for a few months ago was in the ICU 4 weeks after his second dose of Pfizer. He likely would have died by now anyway but the coof definitely helped him in that direction.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 11:17 am to DawgsLife
quote:
but if they counted those cases like they have been counting the number of deaths from Covid the numbers would spike.
Link your support for that proposition please.
quote:
If you have been vaccinated and you get the virus why did you get vaccinated?
I’m not speaking to my present status as being a vaccinated person, but the general idea that virus are transmissible, unlike abortions. And while the likelihood of a bad variant mutating is probably low, I still think preventing that scenario outweighs any unknowns of a vaccine.
Out of curiosity, would you feel the same way about compulsory vaccinations if, for example, a highly transmissible variant of Ebola was spreading throughout the world?
This post was edited on 7/7/21 at 11:19 am
Posted on 7/7/21 at 11:31 am to DawgCountry
quote:
Because his Lord and Savior Biden told him to of course. Libs can’t think for themselves
You’re right. Ever since I got the vaccine, I have been administered the Seattle Rite by The Holy One when I go to “sleep” each night and my microprocessors engage. I supposed I am biased.
But on the other hand, at least I don’t believe in Jewish lizard people, Italian vote-changing satellites, and that Mike Pence is an alien body-double, like VoxDawg does.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 11:36 am to baconwaffle
quote:It would have to be less deadly to spread more. It's highly transmissible as it is but the symptoms come on faster and it kills fast enough that those sick people don't pass it along like people do with COVID-19.
highly transmissible variant of Ebola
Posted on 7/7/21 at 11:59 am to SneakyWaff1es
quote:
I'm a critical care nurse. They don't give us those numbers. We do get a weekly email that tells us how many people we have inpatient with the coof and how many are in the ICU. We have more inpatient than we have since February.
Last year I worked in our covid testing unit a lot when our census was low and I've kept in touch with a few of the permanent staff there. They tell me 30ish% of our positives were vaccinated and most of the vaccinated people got Pfizer.
One of the people I cared for a few months ago was in the ICU 4 weeks after his second dose of Pfizer. He likely would have died by now anyway but the coof definitely helped him in that direction.
Interesting stuff. I appreciate your perspective on it.
This also brings on more questions, of course. Ages of the patients? Any autoimmune patients in that group? Non-seroconverters, etc? There really is so much that goes into each individual's situation. Now that you say (and I recall) your situation as an ICU nurse, that also means you're one of the very few of us who will see the people with breakthrough infections and such, so I imagine you're going to see more people vaccinated and sick than what may actually be seen in the general population. In other words, I expect you to have seen vaccinated people who have gotten sick, just by the nature of the job.
Many thanks for what you do, btw.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 12:07 pm to S1C EM
quote:Being in critical care, I expected to see almost no "breakthrough" cases. I expected the vaccine to keep people out of the ICU. That being said, I haven't seen anyone in the ICU that was vaccinated that didn't have other things going on. I would guess not being vaccinated would have made it worse. As a matter of fact, I've only taken care of one patient that was in the ICU purely for COVID-19. No underlying anything. In the last 15 months.
I expect you to have seen vaccinated people who have gotten sick
I'm not trying to say the vaccine doesn't help; I'm only saying it won't keep you from getting an infection. If you trust the vaccine despite there being zero long term safety data...get it. I did.
quote:
Many thanks for what you do, btw.
I appreciate the sentiment but despite nurses constantly telling people how hard it is...it's really a nice job. Most of those nurses that complain like that have never worked in a job that really sucks. I would take a bad 12 hour day in the ICU over a good 8 hour day at McDonald's 100% of the time.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 12:19 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Hardly. In the short term we have seen people that are vaccinated get the virus again.
You serious, Clark? Not saying it hasn't happened, but are you telling me this takes place on an otherwise statistically significant level? There are avenues to allow it as not everyone will develop the immune response from the vaccine that is intended (the elderly, autoimmune patients, non-seroconverters, etc.). But this is not happening at-large.
quote:
We have seen that the virus has caused myocarditis and pericarditis. You can say it's a small number, but if they counted those cases like they have been counting the number of deaths from Covid the numbers would spike.
Again, it happens with natural infections and vaccines because it is a natural, physiological function of your immune system. I think it's relatively rare in both cases, though. It still seems to be more prevalent with natural infection. It's hard to know how many people have experienced it because you need symptoms to push you to get it checked out and not everyone exepriences symptoms and others will ignore them thinking it's just heartburn. And all of them should eventually recover completely. I don't think you have a good grasp on why covid deaths have been counted the way they have been. There's a pretty distinct profile of covid symptoms, several of which, when in play together, result in other primary causes of death. Shortness of breath/inability to get sufficient oxygen, fever, elevated blood pressure, coagulation issues......can all result in heart attacks, strokes, PE, etc. So while a person dies of one of these things, those events don't happen without the covid infection.
quote:
So we are going to take numbers of covid at face value and discount other data. Both sets come from the CDC. Why is one discounted while the other taken as gospel?
Again, Covid symptoms are identifiable and there are verifiable and readily available methods for testing for it. It's pretty black and white. What data concerning covid do you think is being ignored? If you're referring to the whole "6% of deaths are covid deaths" garbage, then there's no hope for you. As for myo and pericarditis, the numbers are what they are and they are small. They could be larger, but without symptoms or a need to be tested, we will never know.
quote:
Actually this is the whole point. Don't force anybody to get it. Let them make their own decision and stop imposing their own wants on everybody else.
I understand the frustration, but I think the current messaging is to encourage those on the fence. They aren't speaking to you, specifically. Society as a whole benefits from vaccines most when more people get them. That's just how it works. As a matter of public health, the message is still important. But like I said, it's known that not everyone is going to do it and the messaging isn't intended for those people.
quote:
I guess you heard Biden is proposing that the government go door to door to "encourage" people to get vaccinated. How in the world do they know who got vaccinated and who didn't? Talk about Big Brother and the nanny state.
Biden isn't going to do shite and you know it.
As for how they know, I don't know what other states do, but Georgia has the GRITS system to keep track of immunizations (all types, so yes, you're in there if you live in Georgia and have had vaccinations at any time in your life here). I assume other states have their own systems as well. You can certainly dislike the nanny-state, but I'm hoping you don't think it just came into existence with covid (I know you don't think that, btw, so no need to feel compelled to respond).
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