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Posted on 12/21/20 at 8:24 am to retooc
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I commend you baws on a thoughtful adult conversation.
It just boils down to not being judgemental of others based on what they choose to do or not to do. I realize that we can't make people do this and I wouldn't support such an unenforceable measure. I don't know the background of the people I see each day who don't wear, nor those who do, and I don't know why they make those choices, nor do I really care. Like I said, if people don't wear, I just avoid them and their "jetstream". No one has accosted me for wearing a mask in public. I've gotten a couple of looks, which I will happily return, and I've had one guy just ask me sorta snarkily what they are supposed to do; keep sick people from spreading or keep well people from getting sick. He was looking for a "gotcha", but I didn't feed him. I simply said as far as I know, the biggest benefit is preventing sick people from spreading and, since my wife is a nurse who has been dealing with high-risk patients from the get-go and because she works with physicians who are routinely called in on consult for severely ill ICU patients, my goal is to help keep him well. And it's not a difficult retort because it happens to be true.
If people think it makes me weak, that's their issue. I'm not hiding in my basement. I just happen to have family who are at greater risk for severe disease and I am willing to take simple steps to keep them out of harm's way as best I can. Wearing a mask is pretty simple and doesn't bother me and I am confident in the other control measures that I employ to keep from being one of those "careless" mask wearers who actually makes things worse.
Posted on 12/21/20 at 8:25 am to TMDawg
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Link to where I said that please
I never said you said that you did. Deeprig just name dropped you in his ongoing crusade that everything mainstream public health experts say is false. Whether you agree with him or not, I have no clue.
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makes sense to do that
My point exactly.
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The great part is we can all decide our risks and what we think is appropriate. I’ll wear a mask when I go to stores etc just on the off chance it helps keep me from spreading it to someone at risk. I also don’t judge someone or care if I see someone out without a mask.
That's where we disagree. On lifestyle choices that have no effect on me, my family, my friends, my community, or even the world at large, I am very live and let live. If someone has a poor diet, is profligate, smokes, drinks, votes a certain way, prays a certain way, went to Auburn, I do not judge. However, we are dealing with a highly communicable disease that is deadly to at-risk populations. Wearing a mask and avoiding large social gatherings isn't just about reducing personal risk; it's about reducing the spread to others. And that's not just the people in the building with you at the moment, it's the people they come into contact with, and so on. There are elderly people in my orbit who have literally not left their homes in nine months. So yeah, I do judge the greedy, selfish mindset of people who contributed to these conditions. It's obviously too late to reverse course with our current rate of infection, but it didn't have to be like this.
This post was edited on 12/21/20 at 8:51 am
Posted on 12/21/20 at 9:19 am to baconwaffle
quote:It was always going to be like this no matter what we did (short of a literal in home lock down shutdown for months...) because of how contagious respiratory viruses with low mortality spread. It’s just what happens.
it didn't have to be like this
You can stop the spread of something like Ebola because it acts fast, kills most of what it touches, and does it fast. Coronavirus isn’t and that’s why the idea of stopping it from spreading is a fallacy. And that’s not even getting into all of the other health and non health consequences of measures taken in a futile effort to stop it.
This post was edited on 12/21/20 at 9:21 am
Posted on 12/21/20 at 9:26 am to TMDawg
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It was always going to be like this no matter what we did (short of a literal in home lock down shutdown for months...) because of how contagious respiratory viruses with low mortality spread. It’s just what happens.
Not to beat the same horse, but how do you reconcile that with how New Zealand and South Korea have handled it? No lockdowns, just vigorous contact tracing, no international travel, and everyone wears masks. I understand this isn't Ebola, and that a vaccine is the only way to "end" COVID, but with common sense mitigation strategies that other countries have deployed, states and municipalities wouldn't need to contemplate lockdowns.
Posted on 12/21/20 at 9:29 am to baconwaffle
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On lifestyle choices that have no effect on me, my family, my friends, my community, or even the world at large, I am very live and let live. If someone has a poor diet, is profligate, smokes, drinks, votes a certain way, prays a certain way, went to Auburn, I do not judge
half of what you said does have an impact on you if you pay for your own insurance
you are just selective in what you want to virtue signal to your friends. If fat shaming would be allowed just like mask shaming, the world would be a better place Posted on 12/21/20 at 9:32 am to DawgCountry
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half of what you said does have an impact on you if you pay for your own insurance
That's my point dude. Impact on the person doing it, but not someone else.
quote:
If fat shaming would be allowed just like mask shaming, the world would be a better place
I would like to note for the record that I get called an a-hole for saying this, but DawgCountry gets upvotes
This post was edited on 12/21/20 at 9:44 am
Posted on 12/21/20 at 9:38 am to baconwaffle
No it does impact others too. Unless you think for instance someone with diabetes or lung cancer is only treated if they can pay with their own personal cash. That money comes from somewhere and it’s either other people’s insurance premiums or govt money.
Posted on 12/21/20 at 9:41 am to baconwaffle
quote:I think there’s too much heterogeneity to ever be able to boil it down to one thing. I do think the massive amount of international travel to the US led to large scale boluses if you will that once they hit in multiple areas put us in a situation where it was already going to be unable to be contained.
how do you reconcile that with how New Zealand and South Korea have handled it
Posted on 12/21/20 at 10:04 am to S1C EM
quote:I don't think most people would argue if they're being honest. They help. But in that list of precautions you made, I think it belongs last.
combination with other control measures such as handwashing/sanitizing, social distancing, surface disinfection, etc., that they can absolutely help
Posted on 12/21/20 at 10:05 am to TMDawg
quote:This is a smart man right here.
the idea of stopping it from spreading is a fallacy
Posted on 12/21/20 at 10:09 am to baconwaffle
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with common sense mitigation strategies that other countries have deployed, states and municipalities wouldn't need to contemplate lockdowns.
Early in our pandemic that was true but we botched testing and tracing and many citizens enjoy their God given right to spread disease.
Posted on 12/21/20 at 10:15 am to Whiznot
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many citizens enjoy their God given right to spread disease.
Merica
Posted on 12/21/20 at 10:43 am to SneakyWaff1es
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I don't think most people would argue if they're being honest. They help. But in that list of precautions you made, I think it belongs last.
And it certainly may. I just think it does have its place in a complete, comprehensive mitigation strategy, and shouldn't be treated like a red-headed stepchild.
Posted on 12/21/20 at 11:07 am to S1C EM
Overall, I agree with your premise but the silence from the the MSM regarding China's responsibility is deafening. And what bothers me about the silence is I don't know how much is due to fear or influential payoffs from the ultimate deep pockets Chinese government. The Prime Minister of Australia made a statement early on calling for an investigation regarding responsibility for Covid-19 and he was quickly silenced with the Chinese administration threatened economic sanctions.
But bringing the issue home, President Trump issued a halt to all international flights to and from China on Jan. 31st. The Democrats aided and abetted by the liberal MSM immediately labeled Trump as xenophobic and overreacting. Nancy Pelosi responded by staging a show of support for China/Chinese Americans in San Francisco's Chinatown which sent a loud and clear message that she wasn't worried about wearing a mask or social distancing.
Pelosi in Chinatown
As for Trump not wearing a mask during public engagements, I can only say that many other speakers did the same for the obvious reason that public speaking is difficult enough without it being muffled through a mask. But yes, I will concede that Trump followers probably took this as a sign that masks weren't really necessary.
But bringing the issue home, President Trump issued a halt to all international flights to and from China on Jan. 31st. The Democrats aided and abetted by the liberal MSM immediately labeled Trump as xenophobic and overreacting. Nancy Pelosi responded by staging a show of support for China/Chinese Americans in San Francisco's Chinatown which sent a loud and clear message that she wasn't worried about wearing a mask or social distancing.
Pelosi in Chinatown
As for Trump not wearing a mask during public engagements, I can only say that many other speakers did the same for the obvious reason that public speaking is difficult enough without it being muffled through a mask. But yes, I will concede that Trump followers probably took this as a sign that masks weren't really necessary.
Posted on 12/21/20 at 11:31 am to GurleyGirl
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But bringing the issue home, President Trump issued a halt to all international flights to and from China on Jan. 31st.
Not true. Trump issued a halt to the entry of some aliens traveling from China. U.S. citizens, permanent residents, and aliens with certain visa types were still free to travel to and from China. Viruses don't discriminate on the basis of immigration status. Here is the executive order itself
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The Democrats aided and abetted by the liberal MSM immediately labeled Trump as xenophobic and overreacting.
Please provide evidence of this. This is a claim you put out repeatedly, Kelly. People called Trump xenophobic for blaming ordinary Chinese people for the creation of the virus, but no credible person blamed Trump for reducing travel from China. To the extent that people within the liberal orbit blamed Trump for his COVID-related travel bans, it was that he didn't do it soon enough, or that he didn't shut down travel with the rest of the world.
This post was edited on 12/21/20 at 11:41 am
Posted on 12/21/20 at 11:49 am to baconwaffle
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Kelly
Obligatory
Pics!
Posted on 12/21/20 at 12:06 pm to baconwaffle
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but how do you reconcile that with how New Zealand and South Korea have handled it? No lockdowns, just vigorous contact tracing, no international travel, and everyone wears masks.
Those countries did less testing per capita than the US has done. Thus, numbers look better for them.
Posted on 12/21/20 at 12:14 pm to baconwaffle
The infamous double post.
This post was edited on 12/21/20 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 12/21/20 at 12:16 pm to baconwaffle
quote:
quote:
But bringing the issue home, President Trump issued a halt to all international flights to and from China on Jan. 31st.
Not true. Trump issued a halt to the entry of some aliens traveling from China. U.S. citizens, permanent residents, and aliens with certain visa types were still free to travel to and from China. Viruses don't discriminate on the basis of immigration status. Here is the executive order itself
I stand corrected. Here's the Forbes article about the travel ban: Forbes article
Regardless, even with this limited travel ban, you are incorrect in that the Democrats most certainly criticized Trump for overreacting yet later accused him of not doing enough:
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quote:
The Democrats aided and abetted by the liberal MSM immediately labeled Trump as xenophobic and overreacting.
Please provide evidence of this.
Here's a direct quote from Joe Biden on Twitter: Biden Twitter
Biden tweeted: “We are in the midst of a crisis with the coronavirus. We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump’s record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering. He is the worst possible person to lead our country through a global health emergency.”
quote:
This is a claim you put out repeatedly, Kelly.
Thank you, Karen.
This post was edited on 12/21/20 at 12:26 pm
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