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APU - where do you stand?
Posted on 9/22/13 at 10:39 am
Posted on 9/22/13 at 10:39 am
With the O'bannon case moving forward and GA players (according to a SI article which you can look up because I'm too backward to know how to do it) wearing "All Players United" wristbands, etc. yesterday, where do you stand on pay for play?
I support it for two reasons.
1) The NCAA is broken. Enforcement in this voluntary organization is a joke. The idea of giving "due process" to member schools is a smoke screen. The NCAA is scared to hammer the Miami's, Auburn's, OSU's, and Oregon's of the world because "big football" will quit and form another governing body. Thus the Clemson's and Ole Miss's of the world have these miraculous recruiting classes, while the reasonably honest programs, such as GA, are left scratching their heads -- AJ and the 4 game suspension for example.
Maybe if you paid these kids something and re-wrote the rule book in real world, no nonsense language, then college ball wouldn't be the festering mess that it has become.
2. These guys deserve something for what they give to the school beyond tuition, room and board. In the old days, if there were any, ball players were also students. Who really believes, "you are a student first, ball player second"? I admit I am biased. I am a former pro athlete in that I kept my race earnings and I had sponsors. How many GA grads are playing pro football -- 40, 50? So, the rest of the guys should play for the love of the game, for room, board and tuition, while the athletic department and school makes millions, including millions off of ball player likenesses? How much money do you think GA has made selling #34 jerseys? Manziel comes across as a punk, but, hell, I can't blame him if he made money off of "his" signature. Why continue demonizing a bunch of kids for doing what you or I might have done, given the opportunity?
Granted my opinions are in the minority and probably piss off many of you, but I am curious as to what the rantards think.
I support it for two reasons.
1) The NCAA is broken. Enforcement in this voluntary organization is a joke. The idea of giving "due process" to member schools is a smoke screen. The NCAA is scared to hammer the Miami's, Auburn's, OSU's, and Oregon's of the world because "big football" will quit and form another governing body. Thus the Clemson's and Ole Miss's of the world have these miraculous recruiting classes, while the reasonably honest programs, such as GA, are left scratching their heads -- AJ and the 4 game suspension for example.
Maybe if you paid these kids something and re-wrote the rule book in real world, no nonsense language, then college ball wouldn't be the festering mess that it has become.
2. These guys deserve something for what they give to the school beyond tuition, room and board. In the old days, if there were any, ball players were also students. Who really believes, "you are a student first, ball player second"? I admit I am biased. I am a former pro athlete in that I kept my race earnings and I had sponsors. How many GA grads are playing pro football -- 40, 50? So, the rest of the guys should play for the love of the game, for room, board and tuition, while the athletic department and school makes millions, including millions off of ball player likenesses? How much money do you think GA has made selling #34 jerseys? Manziel comes across as a punk, but, hell, I can't blame him if he made money off of "his" signature. Why continue demonizing a bunch of kids for doing what you or I might have done, given the opportunity?
Granted my opinions are in the minority and probably piss off many of you, but I am curious as to what the rantards think.
10
Posted on 9/22/13 at 11:04 am to runningdog
College Football used to be about fielding the best team from the students that attended the University. Currently, that is intramurals, as we have gone so far away from that. Honestly, the only way to keep the "sanctity of amateur athletics" would be to set up minor leagues of football like they have in baseball. The most interesting solution I have heard would be for the Athletic gear corporations that sponsor the schools to pay the players with a salary cap for each school. While this would essentially make colleges feeders to pro sports, and destroy the image some want to have of college athletes playing for the love of the school and free education, it would be a realistic solution. This shite is nothing new, its just easier to track now.
This post was edited on 9/22/13 at 11:10 am
Posted on 9/22/13 at 11:05 am to runningdog
quote:
2. These guys deserve something for what they give to the school beyond tuition, room and board.
That's plenty in my mind and the players do get some sort of stipend as I understand. My main concern in just outright paying players is you create a slippery slope that leads to a professional system in college in which the best players go to the highest bidder much like the N.Y. Yankees in baseball. I know many believe we already have a behind the scenes pay for players system but if it was truly that prevalent, UGA would not be able to get players like Matt Stafford, A.J. Green, Moreno, Gurley, Marshall, etc. I see the NCAA analogous to capitalism; it's a flawed system that's better than any alternative to date.
quote:
2. These guys deserve something for what they give to the school beyond tuition, room and board. In the old days, if there were any, ball players were also students. Who really believes, "you are a student first, ball player second"? I admit I am biased. I am a former pro athlete in that I kept my race earnings and I had sponsors.
Yep, at least you admit that your perspective is slanted. As the corney commercial goes: most student athletes are going pro in something other than sports. As such, I don't see why a currently functional system that supports arguably the most popular sport in the U.S. should be changed to accommodate the minority of exceptional players. In my mind the one thing that distinguishes college football from basketball and baseball in a very positive way is that players stay in school and support their team at least through their Sophomore year and many through their Junior and Senior years. In this regard the college football product is far superior and more popular for good reason.
This post was edited on 9/23/13 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 9/22/13 at 11:29 am to davesdawgs
Then do you propose changes to the NCAA? It bugs me that the playing field is not level. Maybe it never was. Bear, reportedly was the biggest cheater in football in the old days. He personally sued the crap out of, and won, a suit against Furman Bisher. After that he was untouchable.
Anyone really believe Cam played for free, that Ole Miss all of the sudden is a must see destination for young African American kids?
Anyone really believe Cam played for free, that Ole Miss all of the sudden is a must see destination for young African American kids?
Posted on 9/22/13 at 11:38 am to cantseefade1
At least it is a starting point. In the south, we romanticize college football. The NFL is second tier. In many, if not most areas, college ball is behind the NFL in popularity.
In the south we still believe kids play for the love of the game, for the "G." I'm not sure that is the case for a lot of kids. I ran because I loved to compete. Lacing up and racing was totally different from my day job. Racing was visceral, mano a mano. I would have done it for free, but I liked it better when I made a little change.
In the south we still believe kids play for the love of the game, for the "G." I'm not sure that is the case for a lot of kids. I ran because I loved to compete. Lacing up and racing was totally different from my day job. Racing was visceral, mano a mano. I would have done it for free, but I liked it better when I made a little change.
Posted on 9/22/13 at 11:58 am to runningdog
We really gonna debate this once again? Good
lord.
1) Who do you pay? Just the FB players?BB player?
What about Baseball?(some schools make money)
YOU HAVE TO PAY EVERYBODY...including whatever
obscure made up womens sport that's on campus.It's
title IX,federal law,no way around it.
2)Who's making "millions"? The majority of FBS
ATHLETIC depts. are not. Hell,GT claimed they lost a
million in FB last year alone.The Athletic Dept at
most schools split all licensing fees at the minumum
50/50 with the school. Who does the #34 @ UGA belong
to anyway? The school or HW?It's a very debatable
point.
3) These guys are already getting stipends ($1,100
tp $1400 per month) Pell Grants (up to $5,400 per
year) "emergency funds" (up $4,500 per year)
clothing allowence as well.These are all cash
benefits that don't include tuition and books.
Up to 17K a year (not including emergency funds)
for expenses ALONE. The guys that do get kinda
screwed are freshman who have to live on campus
and can't get the stipends.
4) These players need to put these APU wristbands
away ASAP and actually think through this.
If I was CMR I'd give em a warning and then
throw their arse off the team if they kept it up.
lord.
1) Who do you pay? Just the FB players?BB player?
What about Baseball?(some schools make money)
YOU HAVE TO PAY EVERYBODY...including whatever
obscure made up womens sport that's on campus.It's
title IX,federal law,no way around it.
2)Who's making "millions"? The majority of FBS
ATHLETIC depts. are not. Hell,GT claimed they lost a
million in FB last year alone.The Athletic Dept at
most schools split all licensing fees at the minumum
50/50 with the school. Who does the #34 @ UGA belong
to anyway? The school or HW?It's a very debatable
point.
3) These guys are already getting stipends ($1,100
tp $1400 per month) Pell Grants (up to $5,400 per
year) "emergency funds" (up $4,500 per year)
clothing allowence as well.These are all cash
benefits that don't include tuition and books.
Up to 17K a year (not including emergency funds)
for expenses ALONE. The guys that do get kinda
screwed are freshman who have to live on campus
and can't get the stipends.
4) These players need to put these APU wristbands
away ASAP and actually think through this.
If I was CMR I'd give em a warning and then
throw their arse off the team if they kept it up.
Posted on 9/22/13 at 1:49 pm to RD Dawg
Suits me, I would've loved to have been paid cash money to run.
There are a world of legal hurdles to overcome, but I'm thinking the O'bannon case has legs.
As far as I am concerned title IX needs to be amended to reflect the financial reality of college sports. The unintended consequences of good intentioned legislation has killed small sports like mine at schools with non-positive revenue producing athletic departments. Girl runners at most colleges are slow beyond belief. A 20m 5k gets a girl a hard look at a lot of schools.
And screw tech, those pencil necked geeks ought to go down a level In football anyway.
If O'bannon is successful, it will alter the money sports. If I was an AD I would work to get ahead of the case. It is never good when a court tells you what you have to do.
There are a world of legal hurdles to overcome, but I'm thinking the O'bannon case has legs.
As far as I am concerned title IX needs to be amended to reflect the financial reality of college sports. The unintended consequences of good intentioned legislation has killed small sports like mine at schools with non-positive revenue producing athletic departments. Girl runners at most colleges are slow beyond belief. A 20m 5k gets a girl a hard look at a lot of schools.
And screw tech, those pencil necked geeks ought to go down a level In football anyway.
If O'bannon is successful, it will alter the money sports. If I was an AD I would work to get ahead of the case. It is never good when a court tells you what you have to do.
Posted on 9/22/13 at 2:03 pm to runningdog
quote:
2. These guys deserve something for what they give to the school beyond tuition, room and board
No.
This is the same logic by which the fast food worker says they should make 15 dollars an hour instead of minimum wage.
The owner of the restaurant took the risk in buying in, paying franchise fees, building a building, etc. After food costs (athletic dept, university expenses) are removed, and payroll is removed, royalties paid, etc...a restaurant owner is lucky to pull 25-30% profit out of a restaurant. If all the minimum wage workers got that 15 dollars an hour they want, then a big mac would cost 20 dollars, everything would be far more expensive, and the same broke bastards who cant afford anything now, still wouldn't be able to afford anything.
Drive up wages, and drive up prices, the haves will continue to have and the have nots will continue to have less and less of what they already don't have.
Ready to pay 200 face value for a single game ticket? Go ahead and pay the players.
Posted on 9/22/13 at 2:17 pm to runningdog
100% opposed to any sort of (additional, in some cases) stipend.
Half these football players wouldn't even be in school if it weren't for athletics. And they're going to cry about free college? I absolutely cannot stand that.
And how can you even begin to quantify what a reasonable stipend would be? And if you did quantify it, would you pay the third stringer the same as the starting QB? Does the middle reliever in women's softball get something too? And whatever number you come up with, I can promise you a thousand times over that it won't be enough. The elite atheletes will eventually want more. And at that point the integrity of college athletics will be completely compromised. We're already on our way as it is - paying players under the table, players who get booted off one team only to be welcomed with open arms onto another team. It's absolutely disgusting. And some of us don't want to watch the NFL and Sunday AND Saturday.
Half these football players wouldn't even be in school if it weren't for athletics. And they're going to cry about free college? I absolutely cannot stand that.
And how can you even begin to quantify what a reasonable stipend would be? And if you did quantify it, would you pay the third stringer the same as the starting QB? Does the middle reliever in women's softball get something too? And whatever number you come up with, I can promise you a thousand times over that it won't be enough. The elite atheletes will eventually want more. And at that point the integrity of college athletics will be completely compromised. We're already on our way as it is - paying players under the table, players who get booted off one team only to be welcomed with open arms onto another team. It's absolutely disgusting. And some of us don't want to watch the NFL and Sunday AND Saturday.
Posted on 9/22/13 at 2:32 pm to FinleyStreet
All of this.^
Posted on 9/22/13 at 2:47 pm to FinleyStreet
The integrity is already gone. Steroids were around when I was in college eons ago. Money has always been a factor. Jan Kemp exposed athletics under Dooley, and then you had Herrick. Now it is the farce of special qualifiers.
I value all of your opinions. In a perfect world, I would love to see the return of student athletes. I'm not holding my breath.
How about this, should a kid be forced to sit a year if he wants to transfer?
I value all of your opinions. In a perfect world, I would love to see the return of student athletes. I'm not holding my breath.
How about this, should a kid be forced to sit a year if he wants to transfer?
Posted on 9/22/13 at 3:09 pm to runningdog
We get it, you ran track on scholarship at UGA.
Start 5 more topics, I think there are still 3 people that don't know how cool you. They only check in every other day.
Start 5 more topics, I think there are still 3 people that don't know how cool you. They only check in every other day.
Posted on 9/22/13 at 4:46 pm to deeprig9
No actually I didn't run track for GA. I went to GA for grad school.
You probably are right, there is not point in discussing the fact that several players wore APU on tape or wrist bands this weekend.
Let's talk or lie about something really important like, hmm, how much pussy we all got in college, or how cool it is to be stoned or post pictures of chicks with fake boobs.
Don't make this personal. Bring what you have to the table. Played ball in high school, great. Played small college ball, great. Walked on, great. Played ball for the dawgs on scholly, great. I don't care if you are a fat frick, eating donuts all day. If you have an opinion, state it.
Don't like the topic, then don't reply.
You probably are right, there is not point in discussing the fact that several players wore APU on tape or wrist bands this weekend.
Let's talk or lie about something really important like, hmm, how much pussy we all got in college, or how cool it is to be stoned or post pictures of chicks with fake boobs.
Don't make this personal. Bring what you have to the table. Played ball in high school, great. Played small college ball, great. Walked on, great. Played ball for the dawgs on scholly, great. I don't care if you are a fat frick, eating donuts all day. If you have an opinion, state it.
Don't like the topic, then don't reply.
Posted on 9/23/13 at 2:32 am to runningdog
quote:
I value all of your opinions. In a perfect world, I would love to see the return of student athletes.
Fine, start paying players. Then allow the conferences to impose fines for late hits and such. Also, discipline cases who get shitcanned? They have to repay whatever they earned. Athletes who aren't performing? Re-negotiation time. Team's not winning? Re-negotiation time. You don't produce, you don't get paid, welcome to the real world.
Plus, player money has to be paid from program revenue - no fair putting taxpayers on the line.
If these guys want it to be a straight up business, they'll probably find out very quickly that they were better off the other way, especially when the number of programs drastically contracts, and far fewer of them get to play.
Posted on 9/23/13 at 7:35 am to FaCubeItches
I can't wait till players lose their amatuer status and have to pay taxes on their benefits. what do they get... about 100k per year in tax free perks?
Chew on that one.
Chew on that one.
Posted on 9/23/13 at 7:40 am to meansonny
Some people are too quick to go ALL IN on causes that they don't think about consequences.
It's the problem with our liberal democracy.
Players are going to bitch and moan about 2-10k per year in spending money and end up costing themselves about $24k in taxes.
That sounds about par for the course in our country.
It's the problem with our liberal democracy.
Players are going to bitch and moan about 2-10k per year in spending money and end up costing themselves about $24k in taxes.
That sounds about par for the course in our country.
Posted on 9/23/13 at 10:00 am to runningdog
If the NCAA is a joke (it is), then it needs to be fixed or another governing body needs to step in (not the federal government). Paying players won't fix the NCAA issue.
I oppose paying players for several reasons, but I'll say again that the players aren't busting their tails for free, and if they don't like it, they don't have to play.
I oppose paying players for several reasons, but I'll say again that the players aren't busting their tails for free, and if they don't like it, they don't have to play.
Posted on 9/23/13 at 10:06 am to runningdog
quote:
Let's talk or lie about something really important like, hmm, how much pussy we all got in college, or how cool it is to be stoned or post pictures of chicks with fake boobs.
Posted on 9/23/13 at 11:02 am to K9
Not all players get Pell grants and the "stipend" pays for room and board and meal plan. Back when they had Athletic dorms you did not get these monies.
This is not just about free money for playing football. It is about schools only,having to honor scholarships for one year and about not paying for medical related expenses once an injury occurs or once that is a chronic injury sustained during play at the school.
...and the of you don't like it, quit it thing is obviously a sophomoric jab. If you do not like Americas politics leave it.... Right?
Most big football schools have a football team that pays for ALL the other teams and still donates to the school... Also, the teams increase the exposure of the school which is important to them beyond the tangible dollars.
Coach Dooley made $250k towards the end of his career. mark Richt makes well over 10x that and he does not have a NC under his belt. ESPN.... Billions... Nike Millions... They make directly off the play of the players. It was not like that just 20 years ago.
This is such a money maker that schools, even good ones, all but disregard their academic standards and create programs to process these student athletes through the money making system. It is a system that by design, is made to keep kids available for football play and when they can not play, they are left with all but useless credits or degrees and debilitating injuries.
It is easy for grown ups to judge the decisions of 18 year olds, but the people the 18 year olds trust are in the business of keeping them eligible,..
Someone brought up taxes... Good point... Then what about workman's comp? How many players get hurt on the job? How long do NCAA sanctioned football teams continue to pay for injuries sustained whilst on the job? A person working 12 hours a week at the student bookstore has more workman's comp rights than a football player who gets paralyzed.
The affects, long term, of football are debilitating. These are things 18 year olds can not comprehend. Most guys by their early 40s have advanced arthritis and way too many die of heart disease due to enlarged hearts due to steroid use.... Which is passive aggressively encouraged...
I'd love to go back to regional TV, no corp sponsors for Bowl games, and players recruited from student body. It would still be fun to watch and the G would be more important to me than anything else.... But we are so far removed from that now
This is not just about free money for playing football. It is about schools only,having to honor scholarships for one year and about not paying for medical related expenses once an injury occurs or once that is a chronic injury sustained during play at the school.
...and the of you don't like it, quit it thing is obviously a sophomoric jab. If you do not like Americas politics leave it.... Right?
Most big football schools have a football team that pays for ALL the other teams and still donates to the school... Also, the teams increase the exposure of the school which is important to them beyond the tangible dollars.
Coach Dooley made $250k towards the end of his career. mark Richt makes well over 10x that and he does not have a NC under his belt. ESPN.... Billions... Nike Millions... They make directly off the play of the players. It was not like that just 20 years ago.
This is such a money maker that schools, even good ones, all but disregard their academic standards and create programs to process these student athletes through the money making system. It is a system that by design, is made to keep kids available for football play and when they can not play, they are left with all but useless credits or degrees and debilitating injuries.
It is easy for grown ups to judge the decisions of 18 year olds, but the people the 18 year olds trust are in the business of keeping them eligible,..
Someone brought up taxes... Good point... Then what about workman's comp? How many players get hurt on the job? How long do NCAA sanctioned football teams continue to pay for injuries sustained whilst on the job? A person working 12 hours a week at the student bookstore has more workman's comp rights than a football player who gets paralyzed.
The affects, long term, of football are debilitating. These are things 18 year olds can not comprehend. Most guys by their early 40s have advanced arthritis and way too many die of heart disease due to enlarged hearts due to steroid use.... Which is passive aggressively encouraged...
I'd love to go back to regional TV, no corp sponsors for Bowl games, and players recruited from student body. It would still be fun to watch and the G would be more important to me than anything else.... But we are so far removed from that now
Posted on 9/23/13 at 11:05 am to Peter Buck
Solid post. I, for one, am glad to see players from both of our schools leading this effort.
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