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re: 2020 Recruiting Thread (SVP and Broderick Jones stay committed to the G)
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:31 pm to Shawn Spencer
Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:31 pm to Shawn Spencer
quote:
The CBs have been pouring in for Williams lately.
His tape looks great, super dynamic athlete. Hopefully he'll commit soon and start getting to work on the '21 class.
Agreed. I've been really impressed. I'm mildly concerned about whether we can tailor our offense to suit what he does, and I'm not super keen to watch another square peg/round hole battle as we saw with what we attempted with Fields. So hoping to see some creativity out of Coley this year with a more fluid approach to how we utilize talent on that side of the ball.
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Posted on 7/10/19 at 12:32 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Good point, and accurate. But, getting two 3* WR's and a 4* is still behind our DLine recruiting....going by start power only, which is what some on here are going by.
I'm not going through and quoting all 700 posts here, but will at least weigh in...
Comparing one year of our WR recruiting to the totality of our DL recruiting is a little disingenuous. I'm not as far gone as NCDawg52 on this point, but DL recruiting has not been a great success for us. Frankly, I put some of that on Kirby. Scott's work thus far leaves a little to be desired, but if Kirby doesn't make it a point of emphasis to start landing the same level of elite talent on the DL as we are under Pittman on the OL, I think we may have a fair amount more heartbreaking games to watch late in the season. I don't know if it's a scheme issue, a messaging issue, or what... but we're failing to generate pressure from the front 5 (or even 7 since we use OLB/ILB a little differently) consistently, yet he doesn't like to dial up pressure with extra bodies and when questioned on why our OLB don't have enough sacks/pressures he says that's not what we ask them to do...
Something has to give there... You either need elite bodies on the DL that can dominate 1:1 and cause havoc on their own OR at least they force teams to scheme around them or double team them freeing up your LBs to then be the cause of that havoc.
It's also worth noting, that there is a bit more that is having to go into player evaluation in 2020 classes and beyond, relative to what we've dealt with in years past. The transfer portal has already caused some depth issues for us, and the staff clearly has identified that as a source of risk when ranking candidates and arranging our board.
Burton for example was identified as an attitude/transfer risk early and dropped from consideration. Similarly, there is chatter that Jarrett had asked the staff to hold a spot (aka silent commit) and then publicly committed to LSU - he's reached out to the staff since then, but it seems we have more or less cut off most communication seeing this as another red flag. Paris Johnson, the OG/DT Rogers and several others it sounds have been flagged as such and consequently moved down or off the board altogether.
Of the 2 3* and 4* WRs you're referring to, one - Rosemy - is already only a few spots away from a 5th star and is on the heels of two stellar camps in the Rivals 5* challenge and the Opening. While I don't think he'll get his 5th, he's a top 40 ranked player overall and if 247 updates their ranking for him, he'll be right at, or just outside his 5th star. Corey Wren is a project - likely won't move up rankings no matter what since he doesn't actually play WR in HS - and has been selected for one very important aspect... speed. He's the replacement for a Hardman/Crumpton/IMac player... Fortunately, we shouldn't need him to contribute early, and frankly, for jet sweeps only, he could still potentially play really early still.
The only real question mark of those 3 is Robinson, and there are 2 different camps... I'm not sure what to believe. 1) The staff identified him very early as a top target, they see him as a Calvin Johnson-esque WR and that his ranking is a product of injury and not going to camps... 2) There are some who think he doesn't end up in the class...
Keep in mind that Hankton was hired in Feb of 2018... In his first class, he signed 2 5* and a 4* WR... In the follow up class he's adding an "almost 5*", one of the fastest athletes in the entire 2020 recruiting class, and someone that the staff has identified as a high upside candidate. You'd be hard pressed to make a reasonable case that Scott is even in the same ballpark.
I think this year *on the field* matters a lot more for Scott than this year *on the recruiting trail*, but we are going to start having some attrition at the position from the larger DL class that we had in Kirby's first class. If we don't hit on the trail this year, we're going to find ourselves pretty thin in 2020 and 2021... particularly if a guy like Jordan Davis decides he's got a good enough draft profile to leave early after 2020.
Ultimately - It's a little less than honest to try and equate 2020 WR class as a "failure" on par with our DL recruiting in general. Hankton >>> Scott thus far and it's not really a close contest. DL has been our most underperforming unit from a recruiting standpoint in the Kirby era. We need to see a change there... the teams that are loading up in that area are the ones that we can ill afford to see it happen with. Every elite DL that we lose to Clemson, Alabama, etc is another body that can potentially line up with our elite OL... I'd much rather see them doing that with fewer elite prospects, wouldn't you? Not to mention the advantage that bringing them to Athens gives us against their OL.
NB4 - TL;DR, Holy Wall of Text Batman, etc ...
Posted on 7/10/19 at 1:00 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
Comparing one year of our WR recruiting to the totality of our DL recruiting is a little disingenuous.
I wasn't trying to dis our WR recruiting so much as defend Scott. He has had only two classes, not three as was said earlier.
quote:No doubt. Part of that, I think is Kirby doesn't really like to bring LB's. I think ideally he would like to bring 4 rushers and let the rest stay back to defend the pass. I agree that if we are going to do that, we need higher quality DLinemen. People that can absolutely wear down the OLine and stuff the run while pushing the OLine back into the QB collapsing the pocket.
but we're failing to generate pressure from the front 5
quote:Which seems odd when we have Adam Anderson, Nolan Smith and a host of other great pressure type people back there.
yet he doesn't like to dial up pressure with extra bodies and when questioned on why our OLB don't have enough sacks/pressures he says that's not what we ask them to do...
quote:My intent was not really to crap on our WR recruiting so much as to show that the DLine recruiting is not that far off from other areas. I mean, we got a 5* last year.
Of the 2 3* and 4* WRs you're referring to, one - Rosemy - is already only a few spots away from a 5th star and is on the heels of two stellar camps in the Rivals 5* challenge and the Opening.
When I saw that Scott has only coached for three years (One at NC, I think and two here) I just felt we needed to give him some time. I understand that he has been made secondary recruiter in some cases, but attributed that more to Kirby wanting to teach hm and let him learn a bit, more so than an indication that he isn't good. I really liked what he did with Jordan Davis last year, so i think he can do the job, but needs a bit more seasoning.
quote:We need more honest conversation on the board about what all is going on. I know some want nothing but recruiting news, but in order to understand why we miss on some people we need to fully understand the strengths and weaknesses we have on staff. So, as far as I am concerned give me some context and solid opinion rather than blind..."Our DLine recruiting sucks!" kind of stuff. Your insight is always appreciated.
NB4 - TL;DR, Holy Wall of Text Batman, etc ...
ETA
Just reread my post and...."Holy wall of text, Batman!"
This post was edited on 7/10/19 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 7/10/19 at 1:55 pm to DawgsLife
The problem with the “Scott has only coached three years, let’s give him time” thing is that UGA, if we are to be a national contender, should NOT be the place to learn on the job.
I’m not saying every coach needs to be a 20 year vet, but if you come in as a young guy, you better make a splash quickly, because if you take 2-3 years to get up to speed, your position group falls so far behind that it limits team potential. Some have even said that we should give Scott 5-7 years to build rapport with high school coaches and settle in. That is patently ridiculous.
The bottom line is that it is all but impossible to win at a high level without a very good DL. Last year we signed Travon Walker, who was coming to UGA no matter what, and several guys who are considered projects. Norton, who has been mentioned many times here, was considered by half the recruiting industry to be an OL prospect only at the next level.
Fast forward to 2020, a cycle in which coming roster attrition necessitates that we a) oversign at the position, and b) identify and sign guys who can contribute immediately (not ever a good thing for LOS prospects), and it becomes clear that this is a critical class for the future of our defense.
Missing on Bresee and Murphy, who could both have been immediate impact guys, and one of whom is an in state legacy, is pretty damning. Factor in that most think we lose Burroughs, and the picture isn’t that pretty. We will be forced to hope that quite a few lesser rated guys outplay their ranking. Jordan Davis has been a pleasant surprise, but he still has a lot to prove, and even if he ends up being an all American, that doesn’t mean that every project Scott signs will be an impact player.
Furthermore, as Fib mentioned, Alabama and Clemson continue to load up and stack freak DL players like cordwood. If you go back and watch the last two Bama games, their DL absolutely manhandles us up front in the second half, and we don’t currently have dudes like that on our roster.
I’m not saying every coach needs to be a 20 year vet, but if you come in as a young guy, you better make a splash quickly, because if you take 2-3 years to get up to speed, your position group falls so far behind that it limits team potential. Some have even said that we should give Scott 5-7 years to build rapport with high school coaches and settle in. That is patently ridiculous.
The bottom line is that it is all but impossible to win at a high level without a very good DL. Last year we signed Travon Walker, who was coming to UGA no matter what, and several guys who are considered projects. Norton, who has been mentioned many times here, was considered by half the recruiting industry to be an OL prospect only at the next level.
Fast forward to 2020, a cycle in which coming roster attrition necessitates that we a) oversign at the position, and b) identify and sign guys who can contribute immediately (not ever a good thing for LOS prospects), and it becomes clear that this is a critical class for the future of our defense.
Missing on Bresee and Murphy, who could both have been immediate impact guys, and one of whom is an in state legacy, is pretty damning. Factor in that most think we lose Burroughs, and the picture isn’t that pretty. We will be forced to hope that quite a few lesser rated guys outplay their ranking. Jordan Davis has been a pleasant surprise, but he still has a lot to prove, and even if he ends up being an all American, that doesn’t mean that every project Scott signs will be an impact player.
Furthermore, as Fib mentioned, Alabama and Clemson continue to load up and stack freak DL players like cordwood. If you go back and watch the last two Bama games, their DL absolutely manhandles us up front in the second half, and we don’t currently have dudes like that on our roster.
This post was edited on 7/10/19 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 7/10/19 at 2:14 pm to NCDawg52
You say Trayvon was coming to UGA no matter what. You couldn’t be more wrong. USCe was very much in it because of family ties to Carol Muschamp. TS, and Kirby, won that one.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 2:26 pm to NCDawg52
quote:
Norton, who has been mentioned many times here, was considered by half the recruiting industry to be an OL prospect only at the next level.
quote:
If you go back and watch the last two Bama games, their DL absolutely manhandles us up front in the second half, and we don’t currently have dudes like that on our roster.
Quinnen Williams was rated lower than Bill Norton on the 247 composite.
It isn't just rankings. It is scheme and development.
Davis won't be an all american because of his position. NTs don't get that notoriety when 3 techs can dominate the statsheets and highlights. But he can be every bit as important as an all American if he can stay on the field.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 2:29 pm to NCDawg52
quote:
The problem with the “Scott has only coached three years, let’s give him time” thing is that UGA, if we are to be a national contender, should NOT be the place to learn on the job.
That is a good point. But Kirby picked him and he now has two years here. It would not be good if we fired him and he became a great coach. I am ready to give him another year or two at least. I just don't see the huge disparity in our DLine class with any of our other classes other than OLine. Checked the Recruiter rankings and we have 1 coach (right now...this year) that is in the top 25. Pittman at #11. Scott is 3rd on our staff. Two other people on our staff is recruiting better than him, and one is Pittman.
quote:I would disagree with this. Weren't we at least a little worried about SCarolina? Seems they got in the mix.
Last year we signed Travon Walker, who was coming to UGA no matter what,
quote:Okay. then your problem would be with Kirby Smart. At that level the coaches present who they think best fits the scheme and who they feel they can get in the mix for. The head coach has to sign off on who we spend resources on.
Norton, who has been mentioned many times here, was considered by half the recruiting industry to be an OL prospect only at the next level.
quote:I have no heard anything about losing Burroughs. Are you thinking about Stackhouse?
Factor in that most think we lose Burroughs,
Keep in mind, we still have several players out there that we are in it for.
Cowan
Walker
Boykin
Ojulari
are all out there, and, if we were ready to accept their commits would probably commit to us right now. At least a couple of those would. I'm just not ready to hit "The sky is falling" mode just yet. If Herring and Wyatt have good enough years to leave, then we will have done a jam up job across the DLine this year.
Looks like we lose 4...Rochester, Clark, Barnett and Marshall. (Am I missing somebody?)
Rochester has been okay, Clark good, Barnett marginal and Marshall a bit disappointing to me.
Hopefully Scott will mature, learn and turn the corner this year.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 2:40 pm to GeorgiaBoy
that would take away from his shtick though
Posted on 7/10/19 at 2:47 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
NCDawg52
WTF am I missing here. Talk about firing a coach with 2 years under his belt is idiotic. Coach Scott has done his job well and brought in some very good Dline recruits. He has dealt with some injuries along the line, Clark, Rochester, Carter and Marshall.
You will soon get your 5* DT in Jalen Carter and more top talent. Calm your arse down.
This post was edited on 7/10/19 at 2:52 pm
Posted on 7/10/19 at 2:59 pm to DawgRff
It’s his schtick. The sooner you realize that the sooner you’ll be happier.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 3:56 pm to NCDawg52
quote:
Missing on Bresee and Murphy, who could both have been immediate impact guys, and one of whom is an in state legacy, is pretty damning.
How is missing on Bresee pretty damning?
Posted on 7/10/19 at 4:11 pm to Dawgsontop34
We led in his recruitment for quite a while. He is the best player available at our biggest position of need.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 4:14 pm to NCDawg52
And his friggin gf went to Clemson. Pussy is unbeaten, untied, and unscored upon.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 4:16 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
It’s his schtick
It's easy to just dismiss it as schtick, because he's so aggressively over the top with his position, but the rough concept is not wildly off base.
If you get nothing out of my lengthy post above, it's not just that we're missing on guys like Bresee or Murphy... but rather who we're missing out on them to. It's all well and good that Pittman stacks up on the OL, but if Clemson and Alabama are going to stack up the DL talent, it's a stalemate at best for us. The problem is they are recruiting on the OL better than we're recruiting the DL.
As I said, that doesn't mean I solely place all the blame on Scott, but at some point, he, Kirby, Lanning, and Schumann are going to need to come up with an answer as to how we're going to recruit the position better on a consistent basis...
A lot could be done still with this class, even without someone like Bresee... Land Burch, flip a guy like Dexter, and keep Carter... keep Stackhouse hopefully and you have as close to a Pittman-esque DL class as I think is possible while still missing out on 2 top targets.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 4:29 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
It's easy to just dismiss it as schtick, because he's so aggressively over the top with his position, but the rough concept is not wildly off base.
I don’t think people say it’s that far off base. It’s just so absurdly over the top that it comes off as ridiculous. Scott gets zero credit for landing Walker, or Carter, or any of the D Ends, but all of the blame for missing out on Bresee and Murphy and that seems a little unfair to me.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 4:31 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
And his friggin gf went to Clemson. Pussy is unbeaten, untied, and unscored upon.
Reuben Foster had his whole family moved to Opelika. He received a new vehicle and got a damn Auburn tattoo on his arm.
On signing day he inked for Alabama and a young Kirby Smart was responsible.
Elite recruiters overcome all kinds of odds. The girlfriend thing for Bresee and the “position fit” thing for Murphy are excuses. No more, no less.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 4:41 pm to Dawgsontop34
He gets credit for all the guys you named. If we sign a slam dunk class and the DL has an excellent year, I’ll be here to admit I was over the top.
Some may even remember that I was an adamant defender of Scott during his first year. My opinion started to change as he began whiffing on target after target and as most of our veteran DL guys regressed or stagnated on the field. Dropping the ball with Myles Murphy was the real back breaker on my opinion of him.
Some may even remember that I was an adamant defender of Scott during his first year. My opinion started to change as he began whiffing on target after target and as most of our veteran DL guys regressed or stagnated on the field. Dropping the ball with Myles Murphy was the real back breaker on my opinion of him.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 4:42 pm to NCDawg52
quote:
Elite recruiters overcome all kinds of odds. The girlfriend thing for Bresee and the “position fit” thing for Murphy are excuses. No more, no less.
But there are very few elite recruiters. I mean, the fact that there are only a few is what makes them elite.
You don't complain about missing on Haselwood last cycle, and we were the shoo in favorite for him for a couple of years. Of course picking up Pickens certainly helped.
But if your point is Scott is not an elite recruiter.....no. He isn't right now. He isn't going to turn a huge target around right now. Honestly? I kind of feel like Trenton Thompson not developing hurt us in recruiting on the DLine, and that wasn't on Scott.
I get your frustration, but repeating it over and over again isn't going to change anything. We all know your position.
I have always respected your position and thought the information on recruiting you brought to the board was really good. It just seems surreal how adamant you are about Scott. By adamant I mean you see all his faults and don't seem to see anything good....and none of the other coaches bad points. That's what catches me off guard.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 4:46 pm to NCDawg52
quote:
If we sign a slam dunk class and the DL has an excellent year, I’ll be here to admit I was over the top.
Even if we don't sign a slam dunk class you have been over the top. Just not as over the top.
quote:Hard to recruit against a team that has won 2 of 3 Championships. Dabo is a personable guy. I can see why kids are drawn to him.
Dropping the ball with Myles Murphy was the real back breaker on my opinion of him.
However, you are correct that we need to find a way to combat it, or we will have another Alabama on our hands in Clemson.
Posted on 7/10/19 at 4:48 pm to NCDawg52
Kirby and Lanning letting the D-line get havoc numbers this year will improve D-line recruiting. Those guys want to be drafted and those havoc numbers and the combine slot you for the draft.
I honestly think there are 3-4 guys on the fence waiting to see if our defense and more importantly our D-line is more aggressive this year. Let the DL and OLB eat. We don’t have to protect the secondary and ILB’s this year. Let those guys get after it. The Notre dame game and UT games are going to be the barometer. If we come out with good havoc numbers from the front 7 in those two games I think some of those elite guys on the fence start trending UGA’s way. Just my two cents.
I honestly think there are 3-4 guys on the fence waiting to see if our defense and more importantly our D-line is more aggressive this year. Let the DL and OLB eat. We don’t have to protect the secondary and ILB’s this year. Let those guys get after it. The Notre dame game and UT games are going to be the barometer. If we come out with good havoc numbers from the front 7 in those two games I think some of those elite guys on the fence start trending UGA’s way. Just my two cents.
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