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EKG
Texas A&M Fan
Houston, TX
Member since Jun 2010
35122 posts

Sully statue to remain

A fence blocks access to the Lawrence Sullivan Ross statue in Academic Plaza on the Texas A&M University campus after it was defaced in June.

The Eagle
quote:

The expectation is to concentrate on the history of the university and the key contributors to the history of the university, Junkins said Wednesday.

“Their bio will also be included, and in the case of Sul Ross it would obviously cover his role as a Confederate soldier, and so on,” he explained. “So I think the documentation of our history, and essentially the key contributors over time to get to our current state and that's the — Ross belongs. But we're gonna try to change the conversation to get away from deification of leaders in terms of all attributes of their lives and recognize mainly the contribution to building the university, but also document their history and making a historical record of leadership. That’s what I expect.”


The Battalion
quote:

This Jan. 27 announcement follows a recent meeting by the university’s Board of Regents, in which they discussed an approved action plan after a presentation by the Commission for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. The budget for this plan totaled nearly $25 million, and includes additional scholarships to minority students and outreach for potential students. The Ross statue was mentioned in the report given by the commission, implying that addressing the issues surrounding the statue would be a positive action on A&M’s part.


Texas Tribune
quote:

Texas A&M leadership is clearing the air: the much-disputed Lawrence Sullivan Ross statue, honoring the former university president and Confederate general, is staying put.

Interim President John Junkins stressed the school’s intentions to The Texas Tribune on Wednesday, just two days after the university put out a report that characterized the question of the statue’s future as unresolved. Students who have been pushing the university on diversity issues also said they were never told that the issue had been decided.


Roger Klarvin
North Carolina Fan
Member since Nov 2012
44053 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
FWIW, there was never any real consideration given to moving the statue. The University knows who butters their bread, and it ain't a few hundred woke 19 year olds. They were just biding time with vague press releases and hedges until people largely forgot about it.


EKG
Texas A&M Fan
Houston, TX
Member since Jun 2010
35122 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

They were just biding time with vague press releases and hedges until people largely forgot about it.

Agreed.
It’s unfortunate that so many cities with historic statues made knee-jerk decisions during the throes of protest in summer ‘20.


TbirdSpur2010
Texas A&M Fan
THE ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
131724 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

unfortunate that so many cities with historic statues made knee-jerk decisions during the throes of protest in summer ‘20.


This.

Can't un-ring those bells.


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31
Texas Weazel
Texas A&M Fan
San Felipe, TX
Member since Oct 2016
7058 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

unfortunate that so many cities with historic statues made knee-jerk decisions

Not all of those statues had to go, but some were clearly way past their expiration date. Honoring people for their contributions to society is one thing, but honoring them for their service to the confederacy is retarded.


EKG
Texas A&M Fan
Houston, TX
Member since Jun 2010
35122 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
There’s much to be said for and to learn from many of those depicted in stone/marble/bronze.
They’re part of history, whether you and/or I like them or not.

I vehemently disagree with Planned Parenthood founder, Margaret Sanger, and find her legacy to be monstrous.
But I would be VERY frightened if people were forced to agree with me, whilst those who didn’t were silenced.
The presence of the Sanger statue in Old South Meeting House in Boston, though personally abhorrent to me, can serve as a catalyst for important conversations.

This post was edited on 1/28 at 1:28 am


WestCoastAg
UCLA Fan
President, Alex Caruso Fan Club
Member since Oct 2012
126975 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

They’re part of history, whether you and/or I like them or not.

and so are/were their actions

i agree that we should not be doing away with 100+ year old statues of historical figures. i also believe that we should be having open conversations about the things they did in their lives and how we should view them. we shouldnt get rid of sullys statue, but we should be telling sullys full story. the good and the bad. and he had both as everyone does. he did great things for our university. he also did some truly deplorable and heinous things that shouldnt be glossed over
This post was edited on 1/28 at 2:23 am


AggieHank86
Texas A&M Fan
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
23746 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

much-disputed Lawrence Sullivan Ross statue
Say what?

As far as I can tell, the only person on-campus "disputing" this statute is a mediocre jock.

I don't particularly CARE what anyone without such a TAMU degree has to say about the matter.
This post was edited on 1/28 at 9:59 am


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40
AggieHank86
Texas A&M Fan
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
23746 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

(Sully) did some truly deplorable and heinous things that shouldn't be glossed over
What are these deplorable and heinous things?

Hell, he admitted the first female student at TAMU. Personally, I consider that a Good Thing on the scales of life.

The man was raised in the North. Neither he nor his family ever owned a slave, as far as I have been able to determine.

He fought for his adopted state at a time when most considered allegiance to state more important than allegiance to the central government. The unit under his command won a big battle at Yazoo City in which they killed a lot of enemy soldiers. I see no problem with that. Killing the enemy is what soldiers DO ... unless many of those enemy soldiers happen to be Black, apparently. In that case, you should allow the enemy to kill you. Then you will not be "heinous."

OK, that was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but what were these "heinous things" that Sully did? I am genuinely curious.
This post was edited on 1/28 at 9:32 am


WestCoastAg
UCLA Fan
President, Alex Caruso Fan Club
Member since Oct 2012
126975 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
didnt he also like slaughter an indian tribe


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AggieHank86
Texas A&M Fan
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
23746 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

didnt he also like slaughter an indian tribe
Not that I have ever read.

His father was RAISED by Indians (think Sam Houston), and he had many close friends who were Indians throughout his life.

Sully DID lead an expedition to rescue some folks who had been captured by the Comanche in the late 1850s, but half of that expedition was comprised of non-Comanche Indians fighting on his side and under his command. He got shot in the battle that concluded that expedition ... by a Comanche that had been his friend since childhood.

In that battle, the Comanche used a village of peaceful, non-Comanche Indians as "human shields," and Sully went out of his way to assure that those non-combatants were protected to the extent possible ... so the notion of him massacring an entire tribe strikes me as being VERY out of character.
This post was edited on 1/28 at 9:59 am


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20
TbirdSpur2010
Texas A&M Fan
THE ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
131724 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

we shouldnt get rid of sullys statue, but we should be telling sullys full story.


Ironically, it's because Sully's "full story" was being told that the whole brouhaha gained steam. The "Brigadier General, CSA" line has ALWAYS been on his plaque in Academic plaza (every fish in the Corps memorizes it--hell, my dad taught it to me when I was in grade school, actually ), some folks just didn't bother to pay attention/take offense to it until relatively recently.

Good and bad to the man, like you said. Like any human who'll ever be enshrined in granite or marble (Abraham Lincoln's views on interracial relations or Martin Luther King's views on homosexuality would land them in hot water today). For his era, though, he was considered progressive, and an ally to minority and coed education, and was pivotal in the survival of TAMU. So yeah, you're right, a holistic conversation needs to be encouraged--definitely not an expungement for nascent sensibilities.


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Roger Klarvin
North Carolina Fan
Member since Nov 2012
44053 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

i also believe that we should be having open conversations about the things they did in their lives and how we should view them. we shouldnt get rid of sullys statue, but we should be telling sullys full story. the good and the bad. and he had both as everyone does. he did great things for our university. he also did some truly deplorable and heinous things that shouldnt be glossed over


First, most of the accusations toward Sul Ross are just not true. He didn’t slaughter a bunch of black people in the civil war for instance, he and his troops defeated an opposing army regimen that happened to include many black soldiers. It’s war, people die.

Second, it is folly to judge men and women of the past by our modern moral standards. This forces us to call nearly every human who ever lived an immoral monster. Moreover, using the same logic, imagine what people a hundred years from now will think of you?

There are people whose evil is universal and crosses all times and locales. But the majority of people are simply products of when and where they lived.


WestCoastAg
UCLA Fan
President, Alex Caruso Fan Club
Member since Oct 2012
126975 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

First, most of the accusations toward Sul Ross are just not true. He didn’t slaughter a bunch of black people in the civil war for instance, he and his troops defeated an opposing army regimen that happened to include many black soldiers. It’s war, people die.

fair enough
quote:

Second, it is folly to judge men and women of the past by our modern moral standards. This forces us to call nearly every human who ever lived an immoral monster. Moreover, using the same logic, imagine what people a hundred years from now will think of you?

absolutely. i am in no shape or form supportive of the people who want to take his statue down and remove him from the university's history. i am all for simply recontextualizing.

maybe put up a plaque that says "here is sullivan ross. he did great things for our university that deserve praise. he also did these things that we now have a different view on. take what you want from this information" in a better way? idk
This post was edited on 1/28 at 10:28 am


TbirdSpur2010
Texas A&M Fan
THE ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
131724 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

he also did these things that we now have a different view on. take what you want from this information" in a better way? idk


I guess it's just kinda annoying because you could conceivably add that disclaimer to pretty much any memorial/monument for any person who ever lived At some point, idk wtf we're doing besides trying to please people who are being deliberately unreasonable at the end of the day.


AggieHank86
Texas A&M Fan
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
23746 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
So, I was reading a Texas Tribune article about this latest Sully kerfuffle:
quote:

In a demonstration of the tension on campus, hundreds turned out over the weekend to protest both for and against the statue’s removal. More than 23,000 students have signed a petition to remove the statue of Ross, while 24,000 have signed a counter-petition to keep it. A campus spokeswoman declined to comment on next steps for the statue.
Is this true? Did 23,000 current students actually sign this petition? Or was it 23,000 random people on the internet, having no ties whatsoever to TAMU?


WhiskerBiscuitSlayer
Texas A&M Fan
Member since Jan 2013
13625 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:


Is this true? Did 23,000 current students actually sign this petition? Or was it 23,000 random people on the internet, having no ties whatsoever to TAMU?


Until those 23,000 become donors I doubt they care what they think even if they are all current students.


WhiskerBiscuitSlayer
Texas A&M Fan
Member since Jan 2013
13625 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

trying to please people who are being deliberately unreasonable


Welcome to America in 2021.


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20
AggieHank86
Texas A&M Fan
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
23746 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
quote:

Until those 23,000 become donors I doubt they care what they think even if they are all current students.
True.

But I am genuinely curious as to whether this reflects the temperament of the current student body.

Yes, I am older than many here, attending TAMU in the 1980s. At that time, you MIGHT have gotten 200-300 students to sign such a petition, in a student body of 40,000. That is about 1/2 of one percent, as compared to between one-third and one-half of the student body who allegedly signed this petition.

If their names were published back in the day, those 200-300 would have been completely ostracized and ridiculed.
This post was edited on 1/28 at 11:37 am


WhiskerBiscuitSlayer
Texas A&M Fan
Member since Jan 2013
13625 posts

re: Sully statue to remain
True. The times they are a changin'. Wish it was in a positive direction.


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