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re: Better late than never...
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:51 pm to cardboardboxer
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:51 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
There is no guarantee we don't replace Sumlin with someone worse no matter what (every coaching hire is a crapshoot)
It would be difficult for us to find a candidate qualified for our HC position with less schematic coaching ability.
When people like Liucci and Hamm say Sumlin likes to give his assistants lots of autonomy or that he didnt want to undermine Spav, it's positive spin on the fact that he doesnt have the ability to do so effectively. He didnt take over playcalling for Spav because he couldnt. A common complaint from Texas fans about Mack, one that was revealed to be accurate after he left, was that he lacked the Xs and Os knowledge to be a consistent gameday coach or to "teach" young assistants, he required already great coordinators to succeed. The difference was that Mack was a brilliant CEO of Texas football and an amazing recruiter.
Sumlin is as qualified to draw up a gameplan for Saturday as some of the posters on Texags who break down gamefilm on the pay board every week. That's not an exaggeration.
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Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:53 pm to Roger Klarvin
So you're saying we'd be better off if we would have gotten our brains beaten in after the move to the SEC, confirming what all our rivals were saying (that we couldn't compete in a better conference)?
And we'd be better offer if our recruiting classes had been in the 20s and 30s, even though you claim we're already screwed with classes in the teens?
And we'd be better offer if our recruiting classes had been in the 20s and 30s, even though you claim we're already screwed with classes in the teens?
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:54 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Sumlin is as qualified to draw up a gameplan for Saturday as some of the posters on Texags who break down gamefilm on the pay board every week. That's not an exaggeration.
so he just fell arse backwards up the coaching ranks ehh?Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:59 pm to cardboardboxer
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There will be documented proof of his villainy that will be revealed for all?
I wouldnt call it villainy, just a man unfit to coach at a program of our caliber combined with some very bad personal decisions.
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If Sumlin is such a bad guy that he will be legitimately and retrospectively seen as unacceptable in 2018 then we should move to fire him now Baylor-style today.
It's nothing on the level of covering up rape.
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The fact that your course of events requires him to completely fail in football before his personal flaws can have repercussions is pretty much the definition of unfairness
It's nothing that hasnt been overlooked and covered up by programs in the past for the sake of winning. Urban Meyer has worse skeletons in the closet, it's just that he's actually good at his job.
If they wanted to, Florida could get him fired from OSU tomorrow even with all his success there. He's a shady motherfricker on the level of Art Briles.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:04 pm to NanosTacoRun
quote:
I don't buy this, at all. Sumlin bungled the DC position for 3 years, and the OC position for 3 years. And the locker room was a mess for 3 straight years, especially at the most important position on the team.
And yet none of that really hurt us on the recruiting trail until those QBs left. No matter the reality Sumlin did a good job of selling a mirage (until the QBs left) is all I am saying.
Look at it this way- the transfers did WAY more damage to our recruiting than 59-0 did. That shows us that 18 year old men care about style more than substance. We can't understand it being practical adult men, as we expect decisions based on concrete results.
quote:
Then, based on reading the tea leaves, our bag got scared at the exact moment when UT and Ole Miss's stepped up.
I think people overemphasize bagmen personally, but the point remains the bagmen don't pull back (in this narrative) if Sumlin's bubble wasn't popped by the transfers.
quote:
I blame our football culture of not really knowing what we're doing when playing with the big dogs.
I would argue our football culture is what it is because of our school culture. The "salesmanship" that you must have to be a major college football power is distasteful to our practical and conservative base. It's just a bunch of "weasel words" to us, so instead we are trying to basically buy a title via facilities (which won't work without the salesmanship).
quote:
We don't know how to handle the media, we don't know how to handle contracts, we don't know how to handle TX HS coaches/AAU-type handlers
Exactly, because of our culture. Schmoozing, hyping, marketing, glad handling, etc. are all right brain activities. Aggies are notoriously left brained, which just want to find the formula to solve our football problems and plug it in the right place. The problem is such a formula doesn't exist, the battles are won day-to-day in the court of public opinion.
Well, actually that isn't true. Around 2004 Texags had it figured out that "winning fixes everything." We just never make the connection "you need elite but dumbass 18 year old talent to win."
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:04 pm to Dr RC
quote:
so he just fell arse backwards up the coaching ranks ehh?
He's incredibly personable and commands a room extremely well, which combined with his close personal friendship to several coaching legends (including being best friends with Bob Stoops) is very powerful. Stoops personally met with the UH AD the year they hired Sumlin and was incredibly influential in that hire. After that, his career basically took off thanks to two all-time great college QBs he didnt recruit. He's been a HC for 8 seasons, 4 with Keenum/Manziel and 4 without. His offenses and teams in general drop off the face of the earth in the 4 without.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:07 pm to NanosTacoRun
quote:
So you're saying we'd be better off if we would have gotten our brains beaten in after the move to the SEC, confirming what all our rivals were saying (that we couldn't compete in a better conference)?
I'm saying four 6-6 to 8-4 type seasons with a subsequent new hire would have very possibly been better in the long run than what we have in store for us, yes.
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And we'd be better offer if our recruiting classes had been in the 20s and 30s, even though you claim we're already screwed with classes in the teens?
Sumlin gets more credit for recruiting than he should.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:10 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Sumlin is as qualified to draw up a gameplan for Saturday as some of the posters on Texags who break down gamefilm on the pay board every week. That's not an exaggeration.
Come now. You know that's an exaggeration
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:12 pm to Dr RC
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I mean, why waste your time complaining about a guy you hate so much if you are going to do it regardless of the team winning or losing?
Because I'm not a fan of individual coaches, I'm a fan of Texas A&M. My dislike of a coach will never supercede my love of A&M athletics, and I'll never root for failure just to have a coach fired.
There's a difference between desiring a given result and acknowledging it's likelihood. I want A&M to do well, even if it means Sumlin staying. I'm just pretty sure it won't work out that way.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:15 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
And yet none of that really hurt us on the recruiting trail until those QBs left.
Malik, Lodge, Little, Hudson, even Daylon and kyler... all that went down before the QB transfer stuff became a problem. And it all stemmed from an inability to produce on the field and control things off.
Auburn is just as conservative as A&M, and they're miles ahead of us as a program, because they understand big boy football. They make plenty of dumb decisions just like we do, but they don't get cheap and pucker up with things get tough.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:17 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I'm saying four 6-6 to 8-4 type seasons with a subsequent new hire would have very possibly been better in the long run than what we have in store for us, yes.
Why? If anything, that just makes us much more unattractive over the long run.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:17 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Come now. You know that's an exaggeration
Mark Snyder and Jake Spavital would both stil be coaching here if the decision had been left up to Sumlin.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:19 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Sumlin gets more credit for recruiting than he should.
So going 7-6 in 2012, instead of 11-2, would have still produced a top 10 class in '14, followed by #11 and #18 class?
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:19 pm to NanosTacoRun
quote:
If anything, that just makes us much more unattractive over the long run.
Because Sumlin has damaged our image, both at the level of recruiting and the national media, and has created a bitter divide with the AD and big donors.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:20 pm to Roger Klarvin
Sumlin has averaged 9 wins per season including a 3-1 bowl record in the elite sec west at a time when ole miss and state have experienced what many consider to be equal to their best years ever
He has not proven himself a bad coach, just an above average or good coach
He has not proven himself a bad coach, just an above average or good coach
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:20 pm to NanosTacoRun
quote:
So going 7-6 in 2012, instead of 11-2, would have still produced a top 10 class in '14, followed by #11 and #18 class?
No
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:22 pm to Roger Klarvin
You sure don't have an accurate memory of what our image was before Sumlin
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:26 pm to Old Sarge
quote:
9 wins per season
Meaningless with 3-4 gimmee mid-major/FCS OOC games a year. Last year Sumlin went 5-5, and that's including 6-7 ASU and miserable Vandy and USC teams. The year before he went 4-5. In the last three years he has beaten four teams worth a damn: Duke and OM in 2013, Auburn in 2014 and MSU last year. Arkansas ended up being solid by the end of the last two years but were garbage when we played and we needed miracles to win both.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:28 pm to Old Sarge
quote:
our image was before Sumlin
Irrelevant underachievers > Toxic
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:30 pm to Roger Klarvin
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Because Sumlin has damaged our image, both at the level of recruiting and the national media, and has created a bitter divide with the AD and big donors.
You're not making any sense. Even with our recent struggles, our national rep is clearly better than at any other point in the last 20 years.
You claim 4 bad/meh years is better than than 1 great year, 1 good year and 2 meh years.. how does sucking over an extended period of time help the program?
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