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re: You happy with your class?
Posted on 2/13/18 at 11:40 am to djsdawg
Posted on 2/13/18 at 11:40 am to djsdawg
quote:That is ridiculous. Guys go to JUCO for a number of reasons (grades for instance). Saying none of the top JUCO guys are elite is silly. Traore would be a high 4 star, the other two likely lower 4 stars.
It's because they aren't elite prospects
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Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:00 pm to PurpleandGeauld
quote:
Traore would be a high 4 star, the other two likely lower 4 stars.
What are you basing this on?
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:02 pm to Crowknowsbest
Offer list iirc correctly, a lot of good teams were after Traore especially.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:06 pm to PurpleandGeauld
quote:
Offer list iirc correctly, a lot of good teams were after Traore especially.
A lot of good teams are after a bunch of low 4*s
ETA: UGA signed a similarly rated JUCO OT last year, and he didn't sniff playing time.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:35 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
ETA: UGA signed a similarly rated JUCO OT last year, and he didn't sniff playing time.
Indeed...
Hayes - 6'6" 320 #2 JUCO OT - composite .8950
Traore - 6'7" 315 #2 JUCO OT - composite .9020
Hayes not only wasn't able to beat out a true freshman at OT, but also was unable to displace a redshirt freshman at guard, or a junior who had never been able to crack the starting line up (and was arguably the weakest player on the OL). Jucos can certainly help in some instances, but assuming that they will definitely out perform higher rated freshmen is misguided at best.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:47 pm to fibonaccisquared
No one can really know if a guy can cut it until he is out there. I get that. All I am saying is that you get less points for JUCOs than same graded high school seniors. If the 3 JUCOs, with their same grades were high school we would have more points and a higher ranking.
In a nutshell, many are doing the oh noes dance because our class was only #15 (lower than normal), but I think the class is just fine. The only real problem is missing on CB, and only because it puts us thinner than we want to be. We are in on several highly rated CBs for next year. We will be fine.
In a nutshell, many are doing the oh noes dance because our class was only #15 (lower than normal), but I think the class is just fine. The only real problem is missing on CB, and only because it puts us thinner than we want to be. We are in on several highly rated CBs for next year. We will be fine.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:57 pm to PurpleandGeauld
quote:
quote:
It's because they aren't elite prospects
That is ridiculous. Guys go to JUCO for a number of reasons (grades for instance). Saying none of the top JUCO guys are elite is silly. Traore would be a high 4 star, the other two likely lower 4 stars.
They would be rated higher if they were better prospects. For example, Kamara, Buggs, and stidim were big rated 95+ as juco.
It's possible each could be a decent starter for y'all this year year, but I wouldn't bet on that. I feel much more confident in our 5 star freshmen than I would about a low rated juco.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 2/13/18 at 1:36 pm to PurpleandGeauld
quote:
All I am saying is that you get less points for JUCOs than same graded high school seniors. If the 3 JUCOs, with their same grades were high school we would have more points and a higher ranking.
If you're saying JUCOs are "underrated", it's the same argument... you don't really know that to be true at all.
If you're saying that literally a HS prospect rated .9020 (same as Traore) would add more to your final class ranking score, this is inaccurate as well.
Removing Traore and replacing with a similarly ranked OT (Will Craig - .9016), the class score for LSU moves from 543.38 to 543.35. (Ignoring his position and adding Casey Thompson - .9021 gets you an identical score).
The ranking at 15 shouldn't be an issue for LSU, though the decline in average recruit quality is at least something of note. Additionally, declining number of 5*s signed (1 each of the last two seasons). LSU still has the advantage of a solid in-state supply of athletes with less competition for their services at this time, so wouldn't be terribly worried on that front, but it's also fair to disagree with any assessment of LSU's class as having "the best OL recruiting class" objectively.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 1:37 pm to djsdawg
quote:
It's possible each could be a decent starter for y'all this year year, but I wouldn't bet on that. I feel much more confident in our 5 star freshmen than I would about a low rated juco.
I guess we will see on October 13th
Posted on 2/13/18 at 1:39 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
The ranking at 15 shouldn't be an issue for LSU, though the decline in average recruit quality is at least something of note. Additionally, declining number of 5*s signed (1 each of the last two seasons). LSU still has the advantage of a solid in-state supply of athletes with less competition for their services at this time, so wouldn't be terribly worried on that front, but it's also fair to disagree with any assessment of LSU's class as having "the best OL recruiting class" objectively.
If LSU doesn't land a Top 5 class this year Coach O should be on the hotseat. Way too many good prospects in the boot. Bama already talking about stealing Ishmael Sopsher.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 2:02 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
it's also fair to disagree with any assessment of LSU's class as having "the best OL recruiting class" objectively.
Someone else said that. I like our oline class, but I think Ga's is way better. I do think we had the best WR class in the nation this year though.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 2:16 pm to Prettyboy Floyd
It is very egregious to dismiss JUCO players as not capable of playing.
Not sure why some UGA fans think this, your best receiver recently came from JUCO (Wims). Just because your JUCO OLineman didn't work out doesn't mean they all won't work out. Traore will be a starting tackle for us. Not much doubt about that. KSU basically is able to compete because of JUCO players they bring in.
Lewis was not rated highly, but the dude was a 2x JUCO all-american, a gym rat and considering he plays inside and is getting rave reviews already it wouldn't shock me if he ended up starting next year.
Linemen are just very hard to project.
Moore is a bit of an enigma, potential through the roof but i think he just sandbags personally.
Not sure why some UGA fans think this, your best receiver recently came from JUCO (Wims). Just because your JUCO OLineman didn't work out doesn't mean they all won't work out. Traore will be a starting tackle for us. Not much doubt about that. KSU basically is able to compete because of JUCO players they bring in.
Lewis was not rated highly, but the dude was a 2x JUCO all-american, a gym rat and considering he plays inside and is getting rave reviews already it wouldn't shock me if he ended up starting next year.
Linemen are just very hard to project.
Moore is a bit of an enigma, potential through the roof but i think he just sandbags personally.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 2/13/18 at 2:45 pm to PurpleandGeauld
quote:
Someone else said that. I like our oline class, but I think Ga's is way better.
Fair enough. Wasn't following along enough to keep up with who said what.
Don't get me wrong, in no way am I saying that Traore won't be a player... just that the idea that "all JUCOs" are underrated is a bit of a homer's game (I've seen UGA fans make the same argument for guys we signed). I think the propensity for "misgrading" is there with JUCOs just due to sample size alone... there are significantly fewer rated JUCO athletes and they don't compete on the camp circuit which is where a good bit of the "ratings" are done. Couple that with inconsistent strength of opponent and it creates an opportunity for a guy to get under or over graded.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 2:46 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
It is very egregious to dismiss JUCO players as not capable of playing
I don't think anyone has said that.
I think people questioned the idea that a low 4* JUCO OT was an equivalent talent to a high 4* HS player.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 2:48 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
It is very egregious to dismiss JUCO players as not capable of playing.
Not sure why some UGA fans think this, your best receiver recently came from JUCO (Wims). Just because your JUCO OLineman didn't work out doesn't mean they all won't work out. Traore will be a starting tackle for us. Not much doubt about that. KSU basically is able to compete because of JUCO players they bring in.
I'm not discounting them as not working out or not capable of playing personally, but it's probably worth noting that Wims was a 2nd/3rd string Wide Receiver in year 1. Yes, he had a breakout 2017. He also graduated this year... same "cost" from a recruiting slot standpoint, but was only able to contribute significantly for 1 year... that's the double edged sword to JUCOs...
Posted on 2/13/18 at 3:56 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Not sure why some UGA fans think this, your best receiver recently came from JUCO (Wims).
I wouldn't say he was our best. He was our Tall guy and it also took him over a year to crack the starting lineup. He didn't pay any immediate dividends. He was a decent receiver but played at about his rating that he was given when he committed. JUCOS are typically used as stop gaps because they typically provide less eligibility.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 8:13 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
It is very egregious to dismiss JUCO players as not capable of playing.
No one said they arent, but they are often overrated by naive fans, and that ultimately ends in disappointment.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 8:14 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
I think people questioned the idea that a low 4* JUCO OT was an equivalent talent to a high 4* HS player.
Exactly. This idea doesnt make much sense.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 9:12 pm to djsdawg
The reason why jucos are often graded lower is because they don't dominate lesser competition on the juco circuit.
The competition level and the level of coaching is a downgrade. And it often leaves them behind other "same age" recruits when they get on campus.
Javon Wims is a great example of this. He always had the basketball skills (50/50s and jump balls). But he needed to learn how to run routes, and it took him a couple of years.
Georgia has had more consistent success from transfers. And, that is where I think Florida gets better quicker with their recent pickups. The transfers have better facilities, coaches, and better competition (both in practice and in games). The grad transfers who play right away contribute right away. And the transfers who have to sit have been practice squad studs imediately as they wait their turn to see the field.
You can catch a great juco. But the numbers are more consistent with transfers.
The competition level and the level of coaching is a downgrade. And it often leaves them behind other "same age" recruits when they get on campus.
Javon Wims is a great example of this. He always had the basketball skills (50/50s and jump balls). But he needed to learn how to run routes, and it took him a couple of years.
Georgia has had more consistent success from transfers. And, that is where I think Florida gets better quicker with their recent pickups. The transfers have better facilities, coaches, and better competition (both in practice and in games). The grad transfers who play right away contribute right away. And the transfers who have to sit have been practice squad studs imediately as they wait their turn to see the field.
You can catch a great juco. But the numbers are more consistent with transfers.
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