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re: Why Butch has done wonders at Tennessee win or lose in 2016
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:26 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:26 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Yea, I was, couldn't remember how old all those guys were in 2012.
They were mostly sophomores/juniors. We lost them after the 2013 season in the 2014 Draft. The weakest/least known player on that line was probably Zac Fulton who was taken in the 6th round by the Chiefs (he was the first 6/7th rd player to start the opener in his rookie year for KC in 30 years). He's starting for the Lions now.
The talent on that line was special and truth be told the one we have right now (the young guys) are special as well. The older guys we had to play not as much.
This post was edited on 1/17/16 at 6:27 pm
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Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:32 pm to tigerbait2010
quote:
I don't really understand the Butch hate. it's pretty obvious that he's on schedue rebuilding the program. plus, a guy like Shoop doesn't leave Penn State for a wildcard coach. he's obviously well respected in the coaching circles.
He has lost every big game he's been in.
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:37 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
He has lost every big game he's been in.
He's lost most of the big games he's been in. But Georgia is a big game, SC in 2013 was a HUGE game. If you're gonna sport that Power T, at least turn off your hate boner long enough to make correct statements.
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:43 pm to Orangeswarm
quote:
Yup just getting out for now. Prolly UGA bound to coach DBs after next year.
No thanks. We already have two better DCs with DB experience. Maybe he can catch on with Arkansas since they are on the rise.
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:45 pm to Prof
Or he sees a more stable program at UT than Aubie or LSU 
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:46 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
When Butch got to Tennessee they were at the same level of dumpster fire that Alabama was when Mike Shula showed up. They had no players, they were radioactive, they were a place that no coach wanted to go.
Fast forward to today and they have built great facilities and have a roster filled with guys who will be taken on the first days of the 2017 and 2018 drafts. He healed their fractured football player alumni base. He stabilized things.
If Butch falls on his face next year, goes 7-5 and Tennessee decides it is time to move on, how much better a job is that than when Butch showed up in 2013? Personally, I think Butch is a pretty average coach who recruits well and gets his guys to play really hard. But again, if everything bombs this year and he gets fired, isn't Tennessee in a much better position than they were 3 years ago?
And McElwain did a lot more in 1/3 the time.
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:48 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I don't know if they are in any better or worse shape. Maybe on the surface, but UT is a top program. Those don't go away (save Nebraska). They may go dormant, but any good coach can win at UT regardless of the state of the program when they take over.
It's all a moot point though, because UT would have to REALLY underperform to not win the East and obviously that wouldn't get him fired.
It's all a moot point though, because UT would have to REALLY underperform to not win the East and obviously that wouldn't get him fired.
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:58 pm to sullivanct19a
quote:
And McElwain did a lot more in 1/3 the time.
In terms of having a good season? Yes. But if McElwain left right now I don't think the program would look a ton different than when Muschamp left. I'm not saying he won't, but the roster is still pretty barren across the board. That isn't his fault, he's barely been there.
My point is, Butch may end up being a much better "program builder" than coach. And that makes the job a much easier sell if and when he is shown the door.
Posted on 1/17/16 at 6:58 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
I don't know if they are in any better or worse shape.
They are, without question, in better shape than when Dooley was fired. It isn't even debatable.
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:06 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Want to know how bad it was? UT has put huge numbers of players in the NFL. We are one of the top 5 in terms of putting players in. We had a 25 year streak of having draft picks every year for 25 years.
Last year we had zero players drafted. This year with Cam and JRM returning we may well have zero players drafted. That is the state Dooley left us in. The seniors we have left are the last of Dooley's classes (although I guess he's partly responsible for the 2013 class though CBJ gets credit there too) and the only one I can see getting picked is Senior Kyler Kerbyson (he will make a good OG at the next level) but Kerby didn't have the luxury of playing OG at UT because Dooley didn't recruit any OL and so his tape is all him playing LT which he did admirably this year and struggled at the year before because he's not a tackle.
Last year we had zero players drafted. This year with Cam and JRM returning we may well have zero players drafted. That is the state Dooley left us in. The seniors we have left are the last of Dooley's classes (although I guess he's partly responsible for the 2013 class though CBJ gets credit there too) and the only one I can see getting picked is Senior Kyler Kerbyson (he will make a good OG at the next level) but Kerby didn't have the luxury of playing OG at UT because Dooley didn't recruit any OL and so his tape is all him playing LT which he did admirably this year and struggled at the year before because he's not a tackle.
This post was edited on 1/17/16 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:12 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
Or he sees a more stable program at UT than Aubie or LSU
Winning and stability go hand in hand in the SEC.
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:18 pm to c on z
quote:
Bama 2006 was still more talented than Tennessee 2012.
No, just no.
That Bama team had 3 players drafted. One was in the 4th round and two in the 7th round. One was the last player taken.
The 2008 draft, which were juniors on that team, saw 0 Alabama players drafted.
IIRC, Tennessee and a couple of first or very early second round picks.
The cupboard Saban inherited was far more bare than most realize.
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:21 pm to JustGetItRight
quote:
The cupboard Saban inherited was far more bare than most realize.
But man, a lot of those dudes made of for talent deficiencies with guts and work ethic. Those guys wanted to win so freaking badly, which is why 2008 and 2009 were so much fun (and satisfying).
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:26 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
But man, a lot of those dudes made of for talent deficiencies with guts and work ethic. Those guys wanted to win so freaking badly, which is why 2008 and 2009 were so much fun (and satisfying).
Dooley guys were just the opposite. I've never seen a group that had losing more ingrained. The culture change alone has been massive.
This post was edited on 1/17/16 at 7:27 pm
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:29 pm to JustGetItRight
We didn't have a single pick last year, may not have one this year depending on what AK does and he's not a Dooley recruit (Kerby is the only Dooley guy with a shot and he will be a late round/UDFA), and 2012 class had CP, Hunter, and Rivera. CP and Hunter went in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Rivera went in the 6th.
Seems pretty much even to me.
Seems pretty much even to me.
This post was edited on 1/17/16 at 7:33 pm
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:31 pm to Prof
quote:
Dooley guys were just the opposite. I've never seen a group that had losing more ingrained. The culture change alone has been massive.
That alone is the most amazing thing about Saban's 2nd and 3rd years. Those Shula teams knew they were losing close games in the 4th quarter. Every game we played was close, and every one of them (outside of the first half of 2005) we lost. It was just the way it was. The fanbase felt that way. I felt that way. Saban just broke it.
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:34 pm to Prof
quote:
Dooley guys were just the opposite. I've never seen a group that had losing more ingrained. The culture change alone has been massive.
I mean for fricks sake, Dooley had this on the main door to the locker room. How fricking stupid can someone possibly be?
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:36 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
That alone is the most amazing thing about Saban's 2nd and 3rd years. Those Shula teams knew they were losing close games in the 4th quarter. Every game we played was close, and every one of them (outside of the first half of 2005) we lost. It was just the way it was. The fanbase felt that way. I felt that way. Saban just broke it.
I know how that feels. We finally broke through with the UGA win this year. The guys saw that they were capable of not blowing it and even capable of coming back when the spotlight was on. Oddly enough, that game did just the opposite for UGA (they were playing much better that game and they were doing it without Chubb but their offense just tanked after the loss).
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:42 pm to Prof
Zach Fulton still plays for the Chiefs.
Fulton, Thomas and James are all starters in the NFL. Very talented guys but more importantly very intelligent. I think Hall will be good (who knows how good) and have heard he is very smart as well but too early to say on the rest of our young linemen. The interior of our line will be all upperclassmen next year. Will be interesting to see what happens at LT. Richmond could be more like Tiny. Obviously talented but don't think there is a ton there mentally.
Fulton, Thomas and James are all starters in the NFL. Very talented guys but more importantly very intelligent. I think Hall will be good (who knows how good) and have heard he is very smart as well but too early to say on the rest of our young linemen. The interior of our line will be all upperclassmen next year. Will be interesting to see what happens at LT. Richmond could be more like Tiny. Obviously talented but don't think there is a ton there mentally.
This post was edited on 1/17/16 at 7:43 pm
Posted on 1/17/16 at 7:45 pm to sullivanct19a
I won't troll and call Mac a bust or a failure, but I wanna see how Florida does in a year where they don't roid up a QB. They certainly didn't look much different from a Muschanp team with Treon out there. Also UF's situation post Muschamp is nowhere near as bad as UT's after Dooley. If Muschamp set fire to UF's dumpster, Dooley nuked UT's dumpster, took a chainsaw to the wreckage, dropped a massive shite all over it, and lit it on fire again.
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