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re: The future of NCAA football

Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:47 am to
Posted by Adam Banks
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
34756 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:47 am to
quote:

one or two schools can horde all of the best high school players in recruiting. The Top 5 schools in recruiting for 2021 have 20 five stars and 68 four stars between them right now. Alabama has seven five stars all by themselves. I'm sorry to say it but there will never be parity when you have schools hauling in that kind of talent year in and year out.




That’s why I think keeping it small and eliminating mulligans is the only thing that can provide a long term solution.

If Saban gets in on a mulligan it only seems to increase the likelihood that he wins the thing. It takes the meaning out of the regular season and an sec championship.

He’s still going to get a haul of five stars regardless but you start chipping away at playoff appearances and subsequently going division/conference/national title less while a kid is in high school 2-3 guys will end up elsewhere. Then those 2 to 3 guys make the difference in Georgia or Florida winning it.

Posted by ColoradoAg
Colorado
Member since Sep 2011
24695 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:48 am to
Only way to increase parity is to lower the scholarship limits, staff limits, etc. at this point. What has killed the competition is a combination of TV deals and restricted playoffs

How is a school like Colorado for example able to compete against one like Florida? Especially when Colorado is making less than half of what Florida makes every year, so that the facilities difference is simply humongous. You could also pay players on a sliding scale, with set limits like the NFL Draft. That would keep all the best players from going to the same school, because they wouldn't make as much.

And expand the playoffs or get rid of them (not going to happen) if you want the Bowl system to survive.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
68325 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:49 am to
quote:

Make it 70, do that and you have a lot more parity. It trickles down.


All it takes is the right coach and that changes instantly. The NCAA got rid of unlimited scholarships in the early-80s in the aftermath of Bryant's run at Alabama. Miami, Nebraska, and Penn State dominated that decade for the most part despite there being increased parity with scholarship limitations. Florida State and Nebraska dominated the 90s despite the scholarship limitation. There was a little bit more parity in the sport during the 00s, but the consistently dominant teams were still limited to a select few (USC, Texas, Florida, LSU).
Posted by Big4SALTbro
Member since Jun 2019
21069 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:51 am to
Yea you aren’t going to have true parity, which is bad and boring anyways. Even the pro leagues don’t have parity with all the drafts and such in place.

It is interesting that since the bcs era began the champs are fairly spread out Bama and LSU are the only ones with more than two, TOSU and Clemson can join with a win this year. ND would add to the teams that have a NC in the BCS/playoff era.

Players quitting has become worse late in the era but when you are winning you don’t have that issue.

If we could get FSU/Da Uand another team to give a shite the acc might be better again. The big ten needs a real threat to TOSU.

Bama really deserves a lot of credit because of their consistence in a league that has won multiple national titles with other members.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34991 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:52 am to
quote:

This idea intrigues me. Instead of the current Kick-off Classics, have bowl games start off the season. Would we keep the Big 4-5 Bowl games at the end? Interesting.

Conferences are NOT going to reduce games, unless you can make up the money some other way. Reducing to 10 games would cost universities too much money. THE ANSWER IS MONEY. I don't feel like the college football brokers care about parity or fairness, or even a great product. I'm being cynical and truly believe they only care about the bottom line.



I agree. And I would be fine starting the season a little earlier and keeping 11 games. 9 conference and 2 ooc.

Bowl games would go to labor day weekend to make it a big extravaganza.

You would put
Cotton @10:30am
Orange@2pm
Rose@530pm
Sugar@9pm

On new years for the second round of the playoffs. You take back new years this away.



On labor day weekend Fiesta, peach, outback, citrus all get first choice of teams they want to invite, schools still have to accept. ..after that let the reat of the bowls invite whoever they want. Have games all weekend long. Make it a huge event.

Preserves the bowls and allows cfb to have 2 huge bookend events.

Finals should be played the Saturday before the suoerbowl when nothing else is on. Again make it huge and promote it like the super bowl. Big the game out and have proposals on entertainment etc. Huge half time show, pre game show etc. Make it like a superbowl.


And it is about the bottoming and you will start seeing the bottoming hit if changes aren't made.
Posted by Adam Banks
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
34756 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:53 am to
quote:

All it takes is the right coach and that changes instantly. The NCAA got rid of unlimited scholarships in the early-80s in the aftermath of Bryant's run at Alabama. Miami, Nebraska, and Penn State dominated that decade for the most part despite there being increased parity with scholarship limitations. Florida State and Nebraska dominated the 90s despite the scholarship limitation. There was a little bit more parity in the sport during the 00s, but the consistently dominant teams were still limited to a select few (USC, Texas, Florida, LSU).



Yeah I’m less big on the scholarship limits as much as punishing regular season failures.

Scholarship limits will only cause more processing of players. It could help some to spread out talent but has some unintended consequences
Posted by Grievous Angel
Tuscaloosa, AL
Member since Dec 2008
10343 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:53 am to
quote:

Everyone is tired of the same teams in the playoffs.


So. Get. Good.

Where's LSU? Tennessee? Auburn? Michigan, USC, Texas, Oregon, Miami, FSU?

This affirmative action sentiment is nauseating.
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
86710 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:57 am to
quote:

What has changed?


The championship or bust mentality. Even as recently as the 2000’s getting to a good bowl game was considered a great year.
Posted by Big4SALTbro
Member since Jun 2019
21069 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:57 am to
The other issue in trying to achieve parity is the different school budgets and the different faculty that runs each school and the power they have. Colorado has an admin that views sports as a negative and would have them gone if they could. LSU/Bama/ auburn all of faculty members that hate sports but the overall admin embraces the sports culture.

Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34991 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 8:58 am to
quote:

All it takes is the right coach and that changes instantly. The NCAA got rid of unlimited scholarships in the early-80s in the aftermath of Bryant's run at Alabama. Miami, Nebraska, and Penn State dominated that decade for the most part despite there being increased parity with scholarship limitations. Florida State and Nebraska dominated the 90s despite the scholarship limitation. There was a little bit more parity in the sport during the 00s, but the consistently dominant teams were still limited to a select few (USC, Texas, Florida, LSU).


While true, name me a better way to increase parity? Gling to 70 would help.

1) trickle down of recruits

2) with scouting services and the internet almost every decent prospect is identified.

3) combined with some of the rule changes and you have recipe for mutiple upsets every year.

I don't want cfb to be the nfl, but its become increasingly run by a very select few of teams. Certainly in the past it has at times, but now with the playoff, 8 wins is no longer a good season. It's playoffs or bust.

Well expand the playoffs and spread the players out, teams are closer in talent level now and more teams are involved.
Posted by JesusQuintana
St Louis
Member since Oct 2013
33366 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 9:00 am to
To all the “expand the playoffs” folks

You’re probably right but that will do nothing for parity. This isn’t giving more teams a chance to win it, it’s just adding more teams with no chance of winning it to the party. I do find it funny that many of the problems facing CFB right now can be directly or indirectly tied to the playoff and the solution is to expand it...lol

The only way that any level of parity will ever be achieved is reducing the scholarship limit significantly. There is no other way. The elite teams are stacking guys that could start for the next tier deep on their bench. Not only does that improve them, it weakens the competition. CFB is the only sport that gives its best teams nearly exclusive access to the best new players available. It’s exactly opposite of what would need to happen for any level of parity. This is nothing new of course but it’s getting worse actually.

The only thing that can be done, won’t be done. CFB will likely just die a slow death
Posted by Big4SALTbro
Member since Jun 2019
21069 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 9:00 am to
That could just be the part of the cycle we are in. I think of it this way: while growing up LSU sucked until 95, we then made a bowl and it was fun, we went to more bowls and those were good seasons, we then stepped back but then Saban brought us to our first big bowl game in a long time that was exciting, then a NC. After we got the NC it became championship or bust, the 06 sugar bowl was fun, but not the same as 01.
Posted by TideWarrior
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
12400 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 9:01 am to
The playoffs will probably expand but that will not change anything. You could have 16 teams in the playoffs this year and odds are Alabama and Clemson will be playing for the NC.

As someone already mentioned the games are getting boring during the regular season and then add so many useless bowl games. Yes I understand the payout an FCS team takes to get pounded by a P5 team but I do not watch UA games against them anymore. And what value does a bowl game have when you have a 6-6 team playing another 6-6 team.

The issue we are facing is money is the driver and the P5 commissioners are like the head of the 5 families. They control everything and could care less about the product on the field as long as they make as much money as possible.

If the playoffs are expanded it will mean the P5 CCG winner will be a lock. There will be 3 at large with ND probably getting one and an outside chance of a G5 team. But then that will go all the hell when the SEC gets 3 teams in and they will expand once again. But what happens when the P5 lock is not deserving with a 3 loss record but the tie in puts them in anyway? Or are we going to see another B10 move to change the rules to get who they want in? Why even bother to play games if they can pick who will be in their CCG.

If they expand the playoffs should only guarantee a P5 Champ a spot if they finish top 8 in the rankings. It should be the best 8 teams based on rankings and not what conference you play-in. This will give the G5 teams a clearer path to the playoffs. Force ND to join a conference full time so to qualify for the playoffs they need to play in a CCG.

Next get rid of any conference tie-in to bowls. It will provide a little variety and again it will allow for a better match-ups then the crap we are getting now. I mean we just had a 4-5 WF play in a bowl game because of the tie-ins for the ACC. Also cut down on the number of bowl games and make it so a team needs at least 8 wins to get in. I mean we want parity but yet 6-6 season is the mark for many teams so they can go to a bowl game. Success in CFB should not be measured on who finishes with a .500 season record.

Go back to the BCS model for rankings especially if expanded. We just heard them talk about the eye test which enters human bias. The BCS model if I am correct still has been accurate on who gets in the playoff.

Get away from scheduling out games more then 2 years. It looks good on paper now but useless in the long run. We just saw two ranked teams a few weeks ago schedule a game with less then a week and it was a great game. If you stay with a 12 game schedule make every team play 9 conference games with 2 other P5 games on their schedule. Leave one open spot on the schedule for every P5 team. Maybe the beginning of November where they all play a G5 team. This would allow the G5 teams to show what they are capable off late in the season. The FCS no longer gets scheduled.

For the playoffs and expansion the higher seed should get home field advantage. It will definitely make the season have more value. You may get to the CFB playoffs with 1 loss like aTm but doubt you would be happy playing OSU in Columbus with snow. Also would get more fans to attend and generate more money in the community not for some other city or state.

Again it will not matter as long as money is the driver and the P5 commissioners have all the power.

This post was edited on 12/31/20 at 10:35 am
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34991 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 9:02 am to
Lsu just won it last year
Oregon has been in it

I'll concede the rest, but that's the point, only a hand full of teams have access.

You and I cheer for teams that do but overall 90% don't

It's the championship or bust mentality combined with the arms race. Mostly through analyst and recruiting budgets.

Simple, reduce scholarships to 70, hdll even 65. Limit number of analyst across the board, expand playoffs to 16 and make a couple rule changes, specifically the ol downfield, interference, and targeting.

Boom recipe for a lot more parity and success of the sport as a whole.

I don't understand how most fans can't see this. Current syste. Is good for my school and your school, sucks for 90% of others including 75% of the sec.
Posted by VFL1800FPD
Nashville, TN
Member since Aug 2012
9680 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 9:05 am to
quote:

They're not going to assign a "talent cap" using an arbitrary (and subjective) talent grading system that is run by a private entity(s).


They already instituted a committee which uses an arbitrary (and subjective) grading system run by profit...

The committee is the big problem. Go to computers and the AP poll. Under the committee, The eye test is bullshite because there’s only 13 sets of eyes to consider, most belonging to people who probably don’t watch a wide variety of college football
This post was edited on 12/31/20 at 9:06 am
Posted by ColoradoAg
Colorado
Member since Sep 2011
24695 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 9:06 am to
Some teams are getting good. I can only speak to A&M, but A&M has increased its exposure and talent level ten-fold in the past three years alone. Next year will be the first time in a decade or more that I think they won't be at a talent disadvantage when lining up against the SEC elite teams.

But it isn't enough. If you limit scholarships, staffs, etc it helps to even the playing field - we saw it with COVID this year. Also, paying athletes on a sliding scale (think rookie salary cap) would also help to keep the best players from all going to the same pool of schools.

Treat it more like NCAA basketball, with an expanded playoff. Upsets do happen when teams are given the opportunity, so though some schools have inherent advantages they don't become overwhelming.

If something doesn't happen the P12, MWC, ACC, AAC will all fall by the wayside. Either that or make four super-conferences with a real playoff. NCAA would never allow it, but it's happening anyway. SEC and B1G are already almost there, and those are the ONLY conferences with any kind of competition.
Posted by TideWarrior
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
12400 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 9:06 am to
quote:

The only way that any level of parity will ever be achieved is reducing the scholarship limit significantly. There is no other way. The elite teams are stacking guys that could start for the next tier deep on their bench. Not only does that improve them, it weakens the competition. CFB is the only sport that gives its best teams nearly exclusive access to the best new players available. It’s exactly opposite of what would need to happen for any level of parity. This is nothing new of course but it’s getting worse actually.


But every team has the same number of scholarships available to them. The issue will not be solved with reducing scholarships. The coaches are what make the teams successful on and off the field. It is the powerhouse programs that have the deepest pockets to to recruit the top coaches. You want more parity reduce the number of coaches which will also reduce the number on the road recruiting. You could also put a salary cap for all coaches. Coach A is a great recruiter and loves the school he is currently at but a top program offers him double. Not rocket science. Saban and Dabo right now have all the financial support they need to hire whatever staff they want.
This post was edited on 12/31/20 at 10:35 am
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
34991 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 9:06 am to
quote:

To all the “expand the playoffs” folks

You’re probably right but that will do nothing for parity. This isn’t giving more teams a chance to win it, it’s just adding more teams with no chance of winning it to the party. I do find it funny that many of the problems facing CFB right now can be directly or indirectly tied to the playoff and the solution is to expand it...lol

The only way that any level of parity will ever be achieved is reducing the scholarship limit significantly. There is no other way. The elite teams are stacking guys that could start for the next tier deep on their bench. Not only does that improve them, it weakens the competition. CFB is the only sport that gives its best teams nearly exclusive access to the best new players available. It’s exactly opposite of what would need to happen for any level of parity. This is nothing new of course but it’s getting worse actually.

The only thing that can be done, won’t be done. CFB will likely just die a slow death


I agree and why I was against the playoffs to begin with.

But the genie is not going back in the bottle. So expand to 16, keeps more teams involved.

Cut scholarships to 70 total, 20 per class. Hell could even do 65 with 17.5 per class sor 70 with 18 per class since under my proposal grad transfer only counts against total number not per class number.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
29249 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 9:08 am to
quote:

So. Get. Good.


Yeah, that's easier said than done (and ironic coming from a Bama fan). The system is so stacked in favor of the "Haves" that it's almost impossible for the "Have nots" to break the glass ceiling.
Posted by Adam Banks
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
34756 posts
Posted on 12/31/20 at 9:10 am to
quote:

Some teams are getting good. I can only speak to A&M, but A&M has increased its exposure and talent level ten-fold in the past three years alone



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