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Serious Question for Officials
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:13 am
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:13 am
Not trying to defend AU-Arky call. Refs blew that one so bad, replay couldn't fix it. My question however is this: why can't you spike the ball if you fumble the snap? What is that rule intended to prevent?
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Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:15 am to War Eagle 777
quote:
why can't you spike the ball if you fumble the snap? What is that rule intended to prevent?
Maybe preventing a cheap way to avoid a loss on a broken play
Ex. 2nd and 4 in the middle of the game, QB fumbles the snap, picks it up and spikes it to avoid the loss on a broken play.
This post was edited on 10/12/20 at 9:17 am
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:16 am to War Eagle 777
I don't think he could spike it after he fumbled the snap because there was no eligible receiver where he threw the football. It was like he was throwing to a lineman. I guess if a RB was standing right next to him, then it would have been an incomplete pass?
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:17 am to LC412000
No receiver nearby. Isn't that pretty much true on any spike?
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:18 am to LC412000
There was a RB right behind him. It's a dumb rule, an incomplete pass is an incomplete pass.
SEC refs are what they are but I've been pretty shocked by how bad the replay booths have been. Either they have access to cameras that the TV crews don't or they are making shite up.
SEC refs are what they are but I've been pretty shocked by how bad the replay booths have been. Either they have access to cameras that the TV crews don't or they are making shite up.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:18 am to War Eagle 777
quote:That is true, but in the game Saturday, the QB fumbled the snap first so the premise of spiking (unsure of the specific rule) became nullified.
No receiver nearby. Isn't that pretty much true on any spike?
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:20 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:
Maybe preventing a cheap way to avoid a loss on a broken play
Ex. 2nd and 4 in the middle of the game, QB fumbles the snap, picks it up and spikes it to avoid the loss on a broken play.
This is the correct answer. Imagine say the first snap of the UGA/UT game, what if Bennett had been able to pick up the high snap and then immediately spike it... instead of a 20 yard loss on the play, it becomes an incomplete pass.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:22 am to Quicksilver
A ball thrown backwards isn't an incomplete pass, it's a lateral/fumble.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:23 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:Yes, I’m pretty sure the spike is actually a defined play in the rulebook - no eligible receiver need be nearby to avoid a grounding charge.
Maybe preventing a cheap way to avoid a loss on a broken play
Sort of like the exception for holders in FG/PAT attempts. By rule, the ball should be downed as soon as they take possession of the snap since their knee is on the ground.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:24 am to War Eagle 777
quote:
why can't you spike the ball if you fumble the snap?
You can. You just can't some the ball backwards.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:25 am to FearlessFreep
It is. The snap and spike have to be completed in one motion. When he fumbled it, he broke the motion and therefore it was a live play. He then fumbled the ball backwards and Arkansas recovered. It really wasn’t that complicated and there is precedent for the call they were supposed to make already on the books.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:26 am to DuckTalesLOL
I wasn't commenting on the play in question but the rule in general
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:30 am to DuckTalesLOL
quote:BINGO!
A ball thrown backwards isn't an incomplete pass, it's a lateral/fumble.
The QB had his back to the line of scrimmage when he spiked the ball, therefore it's a live ball(fumble) and in play.
The fact that this play was allowed even after review is wrong on so many levels, it makes the whole thing seem totally underhanded.
This post was edited on 10/12/20 at 9:31 am
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:31 am to War Eagle 777
On top of your question, did they even step off yards for the penalty? Or was it a spot foul? All I heard was a 10 second run-off and loss of down.
Perhaps a longer field goal makes it a different outcome?
Perhaps a longer field goal makes it a different outcome?
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:37 am to coachcrisp
I was not defending that particular call. I was just curious why the rule exists? BTW I don't think it does in the NFL
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:48 am to JeBron Lames
quote:
did they even step off yards for the penalty? Or was it a spot foul?
Spot foul. So a 1 yard loss.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:08 am to CaptainBrannigan
quote:
You can. You just can't some the ball backwards.
No. You cannot spike the ball after a fumble. The intentional grounding call would have been correct except for the fact that it was a backwards pass.
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Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:12 am to coachcrisp
quote:Pretty much what happened is the ref blew the whistle and threw the flag immediately as he saw Nix drop the snap, negating the spike option. He didn’t note at the time that Nix had turned away from the LOS, turning the play into a fumble.
The QB had his back to the line of scrimmage when he spiked the ball, therefore it's a live ball(fumble) and in play.
The fact that this play was allowed even after review is wrong on so many levels, it makes the whole thing seem totally underhanded.
What replay should have done is ruled it a fumble with an inadvertent whistle resulting in no clear recovery, as play had completely stopped by the time Faucha grabbed the loose ball. Possession would have remained with AU at the spot if the initial fumble - in other words, exactly where it ended up following the IG penalty.
tl;dr - Ref blew the initial call, but the only difference would be the clock would have started running sooner, giving AU slightly less time to line up for a FG (but the game. clock would have been :27 instead of :17 since there was no penalty therefore no runoff).
Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:18 am to fibonaccisquared
quote:
You can. You just can't some the ball backwards.
No. You cannot spike the ball after a fumble.
Exactly.
The rules allow for spiking the ball immediately to stop the clock. When you throw in the fumble, with defenders now going after the ball, now you have the element of the QB spiking it to avoid taking a loss. Can't do that.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:19 am to coachcrisp
quote:
QB had his back to the line of scrimmage when he spiked the ball,
No it wasnt
quote:
The fact that this play was allowed even after review is wrong on so many levels
The ball traveled backwards, from his release, maybe a foot tops and spike parallel to his back foot, so it not like it was a clear backwards pass at the moment.
As for the recovery, when the whistles were blown, no one was in possession. it was sitting next to ref, when last arky and auburn guy jump on it.
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