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re: Seahawks' Tom Cable: Spread systems do a huge disservice to offensive players
Posted on 5/14/15 at 11:31 am to piggidyphish
Posted on 5/14/15 at 11:31 am to piggidyphish
quote:
Not if you like low scoring defensively dominated games.
It depends on the nature of the contest. Are we talking about a game like the 2011 Alabama-LSU game or a game like the 2008 Auburn-Mississippi State contest?
1
Posted on 5/14/15 at 11:34 am to piggidyphish
quote:
If it's that bad then the NFL will correct the market, by not drafting them
They are. This is why Grayson was drafted so far above Petty and Hundley.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 11:36 am to RollTide1987
quote:
It depends on the nature of the contest. Are we talking about a game like the 2011 Alabama-LSU game or a game like the 2008 Auburn-Mississippi State contest?
You tell me. I'm not the one complaining about the state of the game.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 11:36 am to GeauxToBed
quote:
They are. This is why Grayson was drafted so far above Petty and Hundley.
Then you guys just need to be patient.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 11:38 am to Tuscaloosa
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Just create "minor leagues" like baseball
They tried this. NFL Europe failed miserably.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 11:41 am to cas4t
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Stafford has had a great career thus far. What are you talking about?
He doesn't know. This is the same guy who tried to make it about race, completely oblivious to the fact that Seattle has a black Super Bowl winning quarterback.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 11:41 am to GeauxToBed
quote:
They tried this. NFL Europe failed miserably.
Too fundamental?
Posted on 5/14/15 at 11:43 am to RollTide1987
quote:
NFL coaches like to run the spread because it creates good match ups for their receivers. HOWEVER, they still want the players to know how to read defenses because defenses in the NFL know what they're doing as opposed to most defenses in college.
Sounds like more of a problem with offensive coaches in the NFL than the players, then.
If college defenses don't know what they're doing (which would imply poor schemes, lack of fundamentals, and lack of ability to read an offense) then defensive coaches in the NFL must do a very good job of teaching their players fundamentals and how to read offenses.
So, why can't NFL offensive coaches do the same thing? Are they lazy? Incompetent?
Posted on 5/14/15 at 11:48 am to RollTide1987
Not much of an explanation RT87. Not trying to say "gotcha" either. I happen to think many football coaches out there have a hard time understanding that good, solid fundamental offensive football can indeed be played when spreading the field. The game is the same. Good teams still have to be physical no matter if the Y lines up tight or on the numbers.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:04 pm to Scoob
quote:
It's the read-option spread that doesn't work in translation to the NFL, and that's mostly because it isn't a smart long-term offense. A QB in that system would be broken down physically at around the age a passing QB would really be starting to blossom.
It's less about them being broken down physically and more about them just not being prepared at all for the NFL. They're essentially blank slate, which shouldn't be the case. All college teams are doing is hurting their players chances at being drafted high at these positions. You have exceptions like Mariota and RG3 but that won't be the norm by any stretch. This isn't a matter of them not wanting to teach, it's more of a matter of them just not being prepared at all to play in the NFL.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:07 pm to MustangReb
quote:
So, why can't NFL offensive coaches do the same thing? Are they lazy? Incompetent?
You're completely missing the point. They can teach them what they need to know. It just takes a long time to do so. QB's making one read progressions are not prepared and these read option offenses are doing them a disservice in terms of being prepared to handle and NFL offense.
This thread has been Auburn and Ole Miss fans bitching about this guy being lazy, not wanting to coach, etc.. when his point is that the players just aren't as prepared as they should be. It's a disservice to the PLAYER, not the coach.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:14 pm to Tuscaloosa
The NFL will have a number of starting quarterbacks, and potential starting quarterbacks, in 2015 that either played under the spread system in college football or another system not named the pro-style. Players range from Cameron Newton, Robert Griffin III, Marcus Mariota, Sam Bradford, Geno Smith, Andy Dalton, Johnny Manziel, Drew Brees, Derek Carr, Colin Kapernick, Alex Smith, and on.
The NFL coaches have themselves to blame for drafting the players. They should not be trying to place the blame on college coaches who are hired to win, not necessarily prepare every player for the next level. Some spread quarterbacks fit in the NFL, some do not. There is also a steep learning curve for every rookie NFL quarterback no matter what offense they played in during college, and it is the coaches jobs to prepare the players.
The NFL coaches have themselves to blame for drafting the players. They should not be trying to place the blame on college coaches who are hired to win, not necessarily prepare every player for the next level. Some spread quarterbacks fit in the NFL, some do not. There is also a steep learning curve for every rookie NFL quarterback no matter what offense they played in during college, and it is the coaches jobs to prepare the players.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:15 pm to Tuscaloosa
How many NFL coaches complained when most college teams were running the option offense in the 70s and 80s? Everything Tom Cable said about the spread could be said about the option offense as well.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:16 pm to gatorhata9
quote:The players choose where they play in college.
It's a disservice to the PLAYER, not the coach.
It is proven that a specific offense will not get a quarterback drafted higher than any other in regards to spread versus pro-style. Both types of quarterbacks get drafted high each year.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:17 pm to Tuscaloosa
Cajunsack/s.e.c. crazy still doing work I see.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:27 pm to gatorhata9
quote:
This thread has been Auburn and Ole Miss fans bitching about this guy being lazy, not wanting to coach, etc when his point is that the players just aren't as prepared as they should be. It's a disservice to the PLAYER, not the coach.
Welcome to being an auburn or ole miss fan RT1941.
quote:
Thsis X 10000000 Put another way, Cable is saying...."the minor leagues we (NFL) pay nothing for aren't training our prospective employees properly." Screw these whining NFL coaches - they have the manpower and resources to mold these draftees into whatever product they want. They can get off their arse and "Coach" the hamburger meat that college offers instead of whining because college's aren't giving them a choice t-bone on a silver platter in the damn draft.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:33 pm to AU4real35
quote:
Cajunsack/s.e.c. crazy still doing work I see.
?
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:34 pm to gatorhata9
quote:
You're completely missing the point.
Actually, you're completely missing the implicit assumption about college level defensive players.
The whole argument about spread quarterbacks hinges on the assumption that college defenses are less sophisticated and that the players lack fundamentals and ability to read offenses - the same argument made about spread offensive players.
While I don't disagree that a quarterback coming from a one read offense (spread or otherwise - plenty of "pro style" offenses in college scale back the reads for their quarterbacks, too) will have a steeper learning curve than a player coming from an offensive system that uses complex route trees and multiple reads in the passing game.
It doesn't change the fact that, if the assumptions implied in the argument are valid, NFL defensive coaches don't seem to have a problem developing players while at least one NFL offensive coach would like someone else to develop his players for him.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:38 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
?
prefer whooleo?
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:38 pm to RollTide1987
There are various forms of the spread and yes some (like what Briles runs) take away all the reads and progressions and boil it down to a look, if it's one look pass here, if it's one look run here etc. Then there are other spreads where they still read coverage and follow progression but it's been simplified. So yeah there probably are some guys who don't run block as well as in the past and there is some qbs who can't tell a 2 high safety from a single safety but that is why they have coaches. Jmo
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