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re: Peyton vs. Eli "in the clutch"
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:52 am to genro
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:52 am to genro
quote:
If you want to win one game - the Super Bowl, and it comes down to the "will to win" as much as it does the X's and O's, then give me Brady, Montana, Favre, Eli, Young, Bradshaw, Aikman, Elway... all long before Peyton.
See, stuff like this is just emotional nonsense.
Terry Bradshaw has more career postseason INTs than TDs and personally lost THREE playoff games with turnovers in the final minute. Brett Favre has the most postseason losses as the Vegas favorite in history. Elway lost THREE Superbowls and played horribly in all three. Montana, Brady and Aikman? Sure, but all three played on better teams ith better coaching than Peyton ever will.
The funny thing is that one of the guys you chose, Steve Young, had a worse postseason reputation than Manning. So even by your own flawed metric, you wouldn't pick him over Peyton.
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Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:53 am to Rebellious
quote:
he could not beat Florida in college to save his life and the year after he left, an inferior quarterback took UT to a national championship
In 1998, UT held Florida to 17 points (and UT scored 20) for the win.
In the three losses to Florida when Peyton was QB, UF won 62-37, 35-29 and 33-20. If UT's defense had performed for Peyton's teams like they did in '98, he would have been 3-0 instead of 0-3. But you are right...he is solely to blame for UT losing to Florida.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:54 am to Roger Klarvin
Johnny Manziel is the most electric quarterback I've ever seen. He has a cocksure attitude that reminds me of Brett Favre, and that will take him a long way.
I have no clue what his stats are.
I'm allowed to talk like that. I'm allowed to use my basic human observation and notice intangible, emotional things like that.
It's sports, not math. Deal with it.
I have no clue what his stats are.
I'm allowed to talk like that. I'm allowed to use my basic human observation and notice intangible, emotional things like that.
It's sports, not math. Deal with it.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:56 am to madmaxvol
quote:
Peyton 34/49 280yds 1td 2 int....QBR 24.4
Eli 18/31 156yds 0td 5 int....QBR 2.1
There...that makes one "intangible" a bit more "tangible" for you.
Ha, yall are owning people ITT
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:58 am to genro
quote:
Actually it is because I'm a human being with common sense.
If I say "my mother is sad" based on her body language, I guess you have to throw that out too.
If your mother, the one in question, says she is sad then she is sad unless she is in some sort of psychotic state. You saying she is sad however means very little, as her tears could be those of joy or sorrow. Your thoughts prove nothing and cannot be verified without questioning her. It's why we ask people who look sad "are you ok?".
So unless you can somehow get both Peyton and Eli to personally acknowledge Eli is more emotional and clutch, your point has no merit. Even then, clutch is not an emotion that can be personally quantified and one can overestimate or underestimate their own clutchness, whatever that is.
It's just convoluted nonsense meant to dance around verifiable facts and only applicable in isolated scenarios between players with similar resumes and distinct situations with similar variables which turned out differently.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:00 pm to genro
quote:
I'm allowed to talk like that. I'm allowed to use my basic human observation and notice intangible, emotional things like that.
Would you take Tee Martin, Craig Krentzel, Ken Dorsey and Chris Leak over Johnny Manziel if you were picking a CFB team?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:01 pm to genro
quote:
Johnny Manziel is the most electric quarterback I've ever seen. He has a cocksure attitude that reminds me of Brett Favre, and that will take him a long way.
Never heard anyone say anything like that about a college QB before...well, unless you count Tebow. Everyone talked about him having that "intangible". Of course...a pro contract is another tangible thing he doesn't have.
quote:
It's sports, not math. Deal with it.
"Intangibles" is a term for people too stupid to learn math.
BTW...If you break it down to quantum mechanics...everything is tangible.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:01 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
This is completely untestable and unverifiable. It's a convenient argument that cannot possibly be disproven and has no place in actual sports discussion. It's literally no different than saying evolution is false "because God".
I'm sure the pick 6 in the biggest moment of the superbowl vs the saints when he needed a score to tie the game for overtime isn't a sign of this.
Sorry, Eli plays his best in the superbowl,, peyton for whatever reason doesn't.
It's the only thing that Eli is better than Peyton at. Coming up big in the biggest moments at the biggest stage in professional football.
You can claim "not verifiable" all you like
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:02 pm to Roger Klarvin
If I had the talent of 08 Florida, I would absolutely take Leak over Manziel. Manziel is great but also risky, and a team that stacked really just needs a "game manager". Manziel would be an unnecessary risk.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:03 pm to Roger Klarvin
MY GAWD.....you have pwnd him back to the stone age ITT. Tough times for poor genro
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:03 pm to Rebelfan1985
quote:
Eli has never had a premier receiver btw, like a Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Wes Welker etc. Not saying Eli is better because he is not better than Peyton. But his receivers have always been very overrated. None of thise receivers put up the same numbers once they leave the giants, except Jeremy shocky
Eli Manning has played with Jeremy Shockey, Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks. Steve Smith was the best slot receiver in football for two years with Manning.
Manning has been blessed with plenty of targets over the years.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:04 pm to genro
quote:
If I had the talent of 08 Florida, I would absolutely take Leak over Manziel. Manziel is great but also risky, and a team that stacked really just needs a "game manager". Manziel would be an unnecessary risk.
Well, at least you're consistent with your nonsense
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:07 pm to Rebellious
Obligatory Cooper was the best player of the 3
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:09 pm to Rebelfan1985
quote:
Sorry, Eli plays his best in the superbowl,, peyton for whatever reason doesn't.
Trent Dilfer played better in the Superbowl than Dan Marino.
Brad Johnson played better in the Superbowl than John Elway did in his first three appearences.
Phil Simms played better in the Superbowl than just about anyone else in history.
Using the SB as your lone metric is beyond absurd.
quote:
Coming up big in the biggest moments at the biggest stage in professional football.
Two data points is not worthy of analysis. To define the traits of players based on isolated games among hundreds in their careers is the very definition of ridiculous.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:12 pm to madmaxvol
quote:Well, yeah. But we're a few millenia away from that. We could even get into a deeply philosophical discussion, if everything that happens, including every action we decide to take and every though in our head, can be explained by math, is there really free will?
"Intangibles" is a term for people too stupid to learn math.
BTW...If you break it down to quantum mechanics...everything is tangible.
Right now we can't even reconcile the huge differences between players and their circumstances. Peyton, Eli, Brady etc all played for different teams. Different OLines, different receivers, different runningbacks, different tight ends, different defense, different coaches, different weather, different opponents, different injuries, etc etc etc.
It's absolutely impossible to mathematically reconcile it all. There is no apples to apples.
Thus, we have to use our basic common sense in noticing these intangibles, combined with what relatively little is statistically available to us, and make a judgment call.
It's amazing how some can admit that stats don't tell the whole story, and yet still be a slave purely to stats
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:14 pm to Rebelfan1985
quote:
Sorry, Eli plays his best in the superbowl,, peyton for whatever reason doesn't.
Eli played so well, he held the Patriots to 83 yards rushing in one game and 45 in another. The guy is incredible on defense...must be one of those "intangibles" that makes him better. He also had Brady throw the ball away in the endzone for a Giants Safety....can I get an "intangible" from the crowd? In the two games, he sacked Brady 7 times....now, that is "intangible".
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:15 pm to madmaxvol
You want something tangible?
Look at Peyton's regular seasons stats versus postseason.
Now look at Eli's regular versus postseason.
Or Montana's.
Or Brady's.
Look at Peyton's regular seasons stats versus postseason.
Now look at Eli's regular versus postseason.
Or Montana's.
Or Brady's.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:16 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Eli Manning has played with Jeremy Shockey, Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks. Steve Smith was the best slot receiver in football for two years with Manning.
Without Tyree...Eli is 0-2 in the Super Bowl...maybe that is his "intangible".
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:19 pm to madmaxvol
In his SB appearances, Eli has 3 TDs to 1 turnover.
In his SB appearances, Peyton has 3 TDs to 6 turnovers.
In his SB appearances, Peyton has 3 TDs to 6 turnovers.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:19 pm to madmaxvol
quote:
Without Tyree...Eli is 0-2 in the Super Bowl...maybe that is his "intangible".
Tyree wasn't on their 2011 team.
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