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re: Paying players?
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:01 am to undecided
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:01 am to undecided
I'm not arguing for professionalism of college athletics just the acknowledgement that the system is broken and the traditional arguments no longer apply.
It would suck for UAB to lose their athletics program because they don't make as much as Alabama but that does not justify Trent Richardson not making a dime from all those damn Daniel Moore paintings. Hell, Alabama is even engaged in a lawsuit with Moore because their "licensing company" has exclusive rights to market university products.
This is much bigger than saying they receive a scholarship and I just wish people would consider that
It would suck for UAB to lose their athletics program because they don't make as much as Alabama but that does not justify Trent Richardson not making a dime from all those damn Daniel Moore paintings. Hell, Alabama is even engaged in a lawsuit with Moore because their "licensing company" has exclusive rights to market university products.
This is much bigger than saying they receive a scholarship and I just wish people would consider that
This post was edited on 11/21/12 at 12:10 am
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Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:08 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Paid? No. But what they get should absolutely cover the full cost of attendance. The scholarship I got to go to Law School @ LSU covered more than what Patrick Peterson got. That's just wrong.
I think Patrick Peterson's doing ok now.
I don't really know what side of this debate I want to land on. The whole system really is quite exploitative, and it always sickens me to see a guy's career get ended by injuries while the school continues to make piles of cash off of him. But they still get an opportunity that most high school kids don't even get to dream of, and basically get treated like royalty while they're there.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:14 am to ForeverGator
Players also get whatever they want.. xbox games, movies.. no joke.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:15 am to undecided
quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most Phd students write their own grants with staff oversight soo you should know to address compensation if needed? I know professors receive compensation for research findings aeb Amy Bishop, the UAH professor, having her patent money included in the civil suit. t
The university would have the same right to their IP as they would a students
This argument is negligible since IP situations like this are based on how much was done outside of their grant. Sure, PHD students have to earn their own grants, and they can for lifen granted they don't graduate, but this has nothing to do with your argument.
My argument was just that if PHD students don't have rights to their inventions, why should players have any sort of "performance" rights to their performance for a university? Both situations benefit the university and benefit both the PHD student and the player by giving them future employment because of such success.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:28 am to ForeverGator
Your example is very specific whereas my premise was that there are full scholarship students who receive cash compensation in the form of stipends from various internships, fellowships, grants ect who can also generate other forms of revenue with minimal exceptions -band students can play at a bar, some PhD candidates work in their field while in school- This happens at the graduate and undergraduate level
Yet many argue against scholarship athletes receiving similar compensation because . . .
Yet many argue against scholarship athletes receiving similar compensation because . . .
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:41 am to undecided
quote:
Your example is very specific whereas my premise was that there are full scholarship students who receive cash compensation in the form of stipends from various internships, fellowships, grants ect who can also generate other forms of revenue with minimal exceptions -band students can play at a bar, some PhD candidates work in their field while in school- This happens at the graduate and undergraduate level
Yet many argue against scholarship athletes receiving similar compensation because . . .
But no one cares about those students because its not open for corruption. Its fairly simple to see, I believe. A football player is a lot more likely to be corrupted and receive extra benefits than any other student. If you let the players obtain employment during football season (they are allowed to have employment outside of football season -- if you didn't know), then this just opens the door to situations similar to Ohio State, etc. I see the clear line, but I guess some don't. You get a free education + room and board, you play football and go to school. Sounds like a cool gig to me. Same as a student that goes to school and earns a scholarship because they are in band. Extended to the grad student example. Outside employment will ALWAYS be open to corruption in college football, how do you not see this?
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:47 am to ForeverGator
quote:
@JasonKirkSBN: fuuuuuuuck that RT @BFeldmanCBS NCAA ultimatum to ex-Miami players: Talk or we’ll believe Shapiro’s claims against you LINK
You mean this type of corruption?
Who cares if it's corrupt? Thats no justification for an exploitative system that's clearly taking advantage of free labor
This post was edited on 11/21/12 at 12:49 am
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:50 am to ForeverGator
Setting up a Compensation system is the best way to avoid scandal. College Football is a huge business and everybody knows this! Another thing the top 64 teams must breakaway from the NCAA and setup their own system. The NCAA is as phony as three dollar bill!
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:53 am to undecided
quote:
You mean this type of corruption?
Who cares if it's corrupt? Thats no justification for an exploitative system that's clearly taking advantage of free labor
Yes, that sort of corruption. It happens everywhere already. Open any other sort of compensation to college football players and watch the flood gates open even wider.
I think the thing you are holding on to is "free labor." I think many people in this thread have already dispelled that "free labor" tag by saying that players have a benefit of nearly 40-50k per YEAR by having a free education + room and board, PLUS all of the best trainers, etc. What you fail to see is that football is treated differently because of idiots like Shapiro, which is well documented.
If you really want to boil down "free labor," I could pull that subject out of this thread and show that a lot of jobs in this country are essentially "free labor," since a CEO will make millions and the shareholders even more, even though the bottom line of a company is making minimum wage. Please, football players have it on easy street as long as they try in practice and do well in school -- not too much to ask for.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 1:04 am to ForeverGator
If I work for a business and make them millions while I get paid under 6 figures, am I being screwed or is that normal?
College football players
1)Live like rockstars. arse, money, drugs, getting free grades are all standard. Scholarships worth tens of thousands when they would never be in college in the first place otherwise, free tutoring, the list of benefits goes on. Free talent development and a chance to be a professional in their field.
2)Get paid secretly by boosters anyways (This would never go away even if they were salaried)
3)Correct me if Im wrong but most athleics depts. operate at a loss.
They are hardly victims. And if you pay football players, you should pay all other athletes too.
College football players
1)Live like rockstars. arse, money, drugs, getting free grades are all standard. Scholarships worth tens of thousands when they would never be in college in the first place otherwise, free tutoring, the list of benefits goes on. Free talent development and a chance to be a professional in their field.
2)Get paid secretly by boosters anyways (This would never go away even if they were salaried)
3)Correct me if Im wrong but most athleics depts. operate at a loss.
They are hardly victims. And if you pay football players, you should pay all other athletes too.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 1:04 am to ForeverGator
No I'm not holding onto free labor. I acknowledged the scholarship. But the belief that the scholarships is sufficient compensation is what I'm arguing against
It appears that those against changes to athlete compensation are entrenched in their beliefs and I fundamentally disagree with them. It doesn't appear to be much common ground between the two
It appears that those against changes to athlete compensation are entrenched in their beliefs and I fundamentally disagree with them. It doesn't appear to be much common ground between the two
Posted on 11/21/12 at 1:08 am to LegacyAggie
quote:
If I work for a business and make them millions while I get paid under 6 figures, am I being screwed or is that normal?
College football players
1)Live like rockstars. arse, money, drugs, getting free grades are all standard. Scholarships worth tens of thousands when they would never be in college in the first place otherwise, free tutoring, the list of benefits goes on. Free talent development and a chance to be a professional in their field.
2)Get paid secretly by boosters anyways (This would never go away even if they were salaried)
3)Correct me if Im wrong but most athleics depts. operate at a loss.
They are hardly victims. And if you pay football players, you should pay all other athletes too.
I agree with most of this. Plus... if we let college players to get paid, why stop there??? Don't high schools make money off these random high schools football games on TV on Fridays?
Posted on 11/21/12 at 1:12 am to undecided
quote:
It appears that those against changes to athlete compensation are entrenched in their beliefs and I fundamentally disagree with them. It doesn't appear to be much common ground between the two
I completely agree with this statement. In a perfect world, I wouldn't mind college football players or any other amateur that has a direct effect on the University's revenue from getting some sort of performance compensation. Same goes for the grad student examples. I would have absolutely no problems with that. But, we don't live in that world, and due to all of the outside influences, one must have to live with the fact that we have the keep the amateurism intact by allowing the NCAA to keep outside factors from occurring, at least the best they can.
This post was edited on 11/21/12 at 1:23 am
Posted on 11/21/12 at 6:47 am to asphinctersayswhat
Here's how I see it.
If you lifted the ban of paying players, what do you think would happen?
Would the schools sit tight at their current scholarship offer? Hell no. Schools would sign kids and pay them 10s and 100s of thousands per year more than the value of their scholarship and the services inherent with being a student athletes.
You know it, I know it, and the Pope knows it.
That is all the argument I need to say the kids are being screwed. And you can't deny that is exactly what would happen.
Except smaller schools with worse finances wouldn't be able to as much, and we'd move to a tiered system of competition like we should be doing anyways.
If you lifted the ban of paying players, what do you think would happen?
Would the schools sit tight at their current scholarship offer? Hell no. Schools would sign kids and pay them 10s and 100s of thousands per year more than the value of their scholarship and the services inherent with being a student athletes.
You know it, I know it, and the Pope knows it.
That is all the argument I need to say the kids are being screwed. And you can't deny that is exactly what would happen.
Except smaller schools with worse finances wouldn't be able to as much, and we'd move to a tiered system of competition like we should be doing anyways.
This post was edited on 11/21/12 at 6:49 am
Posted on 11/21/12 at 6:53 am to ForeverGator
ForeverGator summed up my position nicely. Like the physician's creed states: First, do no harm. Don't destroy the system in the process of trying to make it better.
There is a fundamental problem with college athletics, and I don't think it will ever go away. The problem is that it was created as a system of college students competing as athletes, and it became a system of athletes becoming college students in order to compete. None of us want to return to the Harvard vs Yale days of college football, so we are left trying to fit the square peg into the round hole, and justify it as best we can.
There is a fundamental problem with college athletics, and I don't think it will ever go away. The problem is that it was created as a system of college students competing as athletes, and it became a system of athletes becoming college students in order to compete. None of us want to return to the Harvard vs Yale days of college football, so we are left trying to fit the square peg into the round hole, and justify it as best we can.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 7:53 am to Crimson Legend
quote:
There is a fundamental problem with college athletics, and I don't think it will ever go away. The problem is that it was created as a system of college students competing as athletes, and it became a system of athletes becoming college students in order to compete. None of us want to return to the Harvard vs Yale days of college football, so we are left trying to fit the square peg into the round hole, and justify it as best we can.
This is essentially what I was trying to convey. No one wants to watch Ivy League football and so we excuse a broken system because the thought of fixing it is overwhelming and devisive. I just wish more people would say this than "scholarship" "training" "exposure" which are all very valuable but not still not equal to the end result.
SN: I appreciated the discussion even with those I disagreed with
Posted on 11/21/12 at 8:07 am to asphinctersayswhat
Yes, they should get paid. Free education , The military academy, blah, blah are overrated statements. These kids are put bodies on the line every weekend. All we do is pat them on the back. give them some publicity and make overrated statements about how its a privilege to go to this school and that school. You won't allow them to work during the summer or for someone because of so called favoritism or preferential treatment. Then in Basketball they keep raising the age limit so the NCCAA can keep "pimping theses boys" because of the lost revenue from one and done players or the possibility of a Kobe Bryant or Lebron James not playing in a "Final Four". Screw that crap! They deserve to be paid. One day the Canadian football league is going to be bold and take a high school 5 star player out of high school.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 8:14 am to undecided
I'd be interested to see what happens to the average scholarship football player that doesn't have the skill to go to the NFL and doesn't have the intelligence to get a decent degree after college.
These are the ones that are really exploited. Someone like Patrick Peterson and Trent Richardson benefitted a ton from the exposure they got in college and will make a ton of money going to the NFL before they even do anything on the field.
These are the ones that are really exploited. Someone like Patrick Peterson and Trent Richardson benefitted a ton from the exposure they got in college and will make a ton of money going to the NFL before they even do anything on the field.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 8:38 am to asphinctersayswhat
No they shouldn't because if they were paid then that would mean they are professional athletes. They are already getting paid with a scholarship and the exposure to NFL scouts if they are talented enough.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 8:46 am to asphinctersayswhat
quote:
Living in Ttown, I see these guys are getting screwed.
Is this a joke? Those poor babies. They get degrees, apartments, clothing, and food for free for four years but they have to catch a football for it. Yeah they're getting royally screwed.
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