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re: Nate Oats and Eric Musselman on the first Indiana hot board to replace Archie Miller
Posted on 3/17/21 at 2:41 am to V Bainbridge
Posted on 3/17/21 at 2:41 am to V Bainbridge
I agree with that (i.e. your response to me).
I think whats often lost is how insidiously these contract negotiations can inflect from prudent to overpaying. Incremental rationalization is a bitch, the downside for an AD to slightly overpay is much lower than letting them leave and watching them be successful elsewhere. So a couple million creeps into the incentive package, everything seems fine as you sign, then 3 bad losing seasons later the buyout number is plastered across every newpaper.
Being dogmatic about numbers considering an AD's incentive structure that I noted above has a lot of assymetry. Especially with a fanbase as desperate for success in basketball as ours.
For Hunter, bumping him an extra $500k-$1mm is very annoying if he feels its a bit expensive. Letting him go to Indiana and see the Hoosiers win a national championship would make how our fans treated Nutt look like a gentle disagreement compared to what they would do to him.
I think whats often lost is how insidiously these contract negotiations can inflect from prudent to overpaying. Incremental rationalization is a bitch, the downside for an AD to slightly overpay is much lower than letting them leave and watching them be successful elsewhere. So a couple million creeps into the incentive package, everything seems fine as you sign, then 3 bad losing seasons later the buyout number is plastered across every newpaper.
Being dogmatic about numbers considering an AD's incentive structure that I noted above has a lot of assymetry. Especially with a fanbase as desperate for success in basketball as ours.
For Hunter, bumping him an extra $500k-$1mm is very annoying if he feels its a bit expensive. Letting him go to Indiana and see the Hoosiers win a national championship would make how our fans treated Nutt look like a gentle disagreement compared to what they would do to him.
This post was edited on 3/17/21 at 2:47 am
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Posted on 3/17/21 at 8:12 am to BennyAndTheInkJets
quote:
For Hunter, bumping him an extra $500k-$1mm is very annoying if he feels its a bit expensive.
I think this is a reasonable raise even if he gets bounced early. If Indiana comes over the top with a 5 mil offer or something crazy like that, which is completely possible, I don't know that we should match it.
If this scenario actually happens he hasn't proven he is worth it in my eyes and we certainly don't want to get trapped in another contract that makes us stuck with someone for years and have an ugly split like with Bert.
quote:
Letting him go to Indiana and see the Hoosiers win a national championship would make how our fans treated Nutt look like a gentle disagreement compared to what they would do to him.
Would be the nightmare scenario but if he can do it there I see no reason why he couldn't do it here and now. We have been through so much bullshite in the past decade I can understand that many of our fans would almost expect this to happen
Posted on 3/17/21 at 8:24 am to DallasTiger45
This thread took some interesting turns
Posted on 3/17/21 at 8:29 am to KCM0Tiger
quote:
Musselman needed just two seasons to turn Arkansas into the second-best team in the SEC, as the roster management formula he patented at Nevada has translated seamlessly to the major-conference level. Considering the success he's enjoying at Arkansas, it's hard to see him leaving so quickly for what might be considered a comparable gig. Musselman has rarely stayed in one place long during a career that has dotted the map, however. Plus, there may be some sentimental attachment to the Minnesota job. Musselman's father, Bill, held the position during Eric's youth. Bill later coached the Minnesota Timberwolves with Eric doing a stint on his staff.
per CBS sports
Posted on 3/17/21 at 8:35 am to SummerOfGeorge
Yea - Indiana is a very good job at a place with money and tons of talent in the state and region, plus the name that still can win battles nationally with the right guy selling it. They haven't been great in a while, but they have everything in place to be very good immediately.
If that is really TRUE then how can 3 coaches in a row fail to deliver? JMO but that talent in that state ain't at the level spoken of.
If that is really TRUE then how can 3 coaches in a row fail to deliver? JMO but that talent in that state ain't at the level spoken of.
Posted on 3/17/21 at 8:35 am to TigerintheNO
quote:
Plus, there may be some sentimental attachment to the Minnesota job. Musselman's father, Bill, held the position during Eric's youth. Bill later coached the Minnesota Timberwolves with Eric doing a stint on his staff.
Muss was there from ages 7-11 and came back for two years in his mid to late 20s.
I think if Muss has any sentimental attachment, its to the West coast. He still fondly will talk about his time in Southern California every so often.
Posted on 3/17/21 at 9:18 am to JoseyWalesTheOutlaw
quote:
If that is really TRUE then how can 3 coaches in a row fail to deliver?
Crean won the B1G twice and went to the NCAAT 4 of his last 6 years. They won 27+ games 3 times in those last 6 years. He didn't win national titles but they were a pretty good program.
And before that Kelvin Sampson won plenty - he went 43-15. He just got caught cheating. They were 22-4 when he got fired in 2008.
quote:
JMO but that talent in that state ain't at the level spoken of.
It's pretty damn good. They've got a 5-star and 2-3 Top 50 players in state almost every year.
This post was edited on 3/17/21 at 9:27 am
Posted on 3/17/21 at 1:12 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
It's pretty damn good. They've got a 5-star and 2-3 Top 50 players in state almost every year.
The biggest problem Indiana faces in recruiting high profile kids is that just down the road is Louisville, Champaign, Lexington, Columbus, South Bend, and Cincinnati.
There just is no real big draw to Indiana any longer over those schools in those locations. They've run off any decent coach they have had since Knight. As you pointed out, Crean did good things for them while he was there and won the Big 10 multiple times. They have won 3 Big Ten titles post Knight and Crean was the coach of their best teams post Knight.
I know Arkansas has been short leashed with basketball coaches post Nolan. I know Tennessee has been short leashed with football coaches post Fulmer, but Indiana has taken it to an entirely new level.
It is going to take the right coach and it is also going to take a coach that does not mind the idea of being fired after winning one of the toughest leagues in the country multiple times but needing to get past the Sweet 16 every year in the tourney.
Posted on 3/17/21 at 1:14 pm to Hawgeye
quote:
It is going to take the right coach and it is also going to take a coach that does not mind the idea of being fired after winning one of the toughest leagues in the country multiple times but needing to get past the Sweet 16 every year in the tourney.
I think that is the biggest thing. Crean had to start at absolute rock bottom, and after 3 tough years he went
- 27-9 (11-7) (Sweet 16)
- 29-7 (14-4) (B1G Champs) (Sweet 16)
- 17-15 (7-11)
- 20-14 (9-9) (1st Round)
- 27-8 (15-3) (B1G Champs) (Sweet 16)
- 18-16 (7-11)
Last 6 Years at Indiana
Overall: 138-69 (67%) (Avg 23-12)
BIG: 62-45 (58%) (Avg 10-8)
4 NCAAT in 6 years
3 S16 in 6 years
2 B1G Titles
And they fired him. If that isn't good enough......yikes.
This post was edited on 3/17/21 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 3/17/21 at 1:37 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Yea. The Sweet 16 losses werent to George Mason or a team similar either. They were to legit teams.
There is a difference between wanting Crean gone and wanting Mike Anderson gone from Arkansas for losing to inferior programs and not making out of the first weekend.
There is a difference between wanting Crean gone and wanting Mike Anderson gone from Arkansas for losing to inferior programs and not making out of the first weekend.
Posted on 3/17/21 at 1:38 pm to SummerOfGeorge
If Crean had those results at Arkansas then no way he would be fired. We don't have unrealistic expectations that Indiana has. Heath, Pel and Anderson were fired because they underachieved and couldn't make the NCAA tournament each year.
Posted on 3/20/21 at 9:29 pm to V Bainbridge
The b-ball team beat the slime-ball Rick Pitino, it is all vibes from here.
Posted on 3/20/21 at 9:35 pm to V Bainbridge
Uh...what?
Repeat that please.
Repeat that please.
Posted on 3/20/21 at 9:40 pm to V Bainbridge
quote:
I think both our teams make it to the second weekend. I feel like you guys have an excellent chance to make the Final Four.
Here you go. You can frick off now.
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