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re: Merry Christmas! Jesus died for our sins
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:33 pm to Pastor Mike
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:33 pm to Pastor Mike
quote:
I am getting at the fact that Raymond Brown is someone liberals like to quote - WHO - being a man - is just as subject to error as any other man. His opinion is no better than many of his contemporaries who denounced many of his views. I, frankly, am not trying to change your opinion about God and the Birth of His Son = but to cling to a liberal catholic scholar who denies the inspiration of the scripture as your authority for rejecting the scripture - is, rather, well, WEAK
What I stated is not some idiosyncratic view of Raymond Brown. It's the view of most Biblical scholars. I just happened to pull his Introduction to the New Testament off my shelf to make sure that I had the details of Luke's errors correct.
It's fine if you want to take that position that when the Bible conflicts with other sources, the Bible is always right. But then you can't say that non-Biblical sources confirm the Bible. That's the claim I was replying to earlier in this thread.
Raymond Brown did not deny the inspiration of the scriptures. He did deny the kind of naive literalism that you represent however.
Only the basest of morons would somehow connect this discussion to the Catholic abuse scandal.
1
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:33 pm to Barbellthor
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/25/21 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:36 pm to Notrub14
quote:
Only the basest of morons would somehow connect this discussion to the Catholic abuse scandal.
Fine - believe the ramblings of a man who believed that his pope spoke completely without error as he voice of God WHILE covering up the pedophilia of his priests - an undeniable fact. I am showing you that he is not a good source for your argument. You, however, insist that he is because he agrees with you, and somehow that makes ME the moron
This post was edited on 12/25/21 at 3:38 pm
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:40 pm to Pastor Mike
quote:
Fine - believe the ramblings of a man who believed that his pope spoke completely without error as he voice of God WHILE covering up the pedophilia of his priests - an undeniable fact. I am showing you that he is not a good source for your argument. You, however, insist that he is because he agrees with you, and somehow that makes ME the moron
You're showing yourself to be an expert at committing the ad hominem fallacy. With Pastors who are as dumb as you, it's no wonder that most of the Christians I come across don't know anything about the Bible or history.
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:42 pm to Notrub14
quote:
You're showing yourself to be an expert at committing the ad hominem fallacy. With Pastors who are as dumb as you, it's no wonder that most of the Christians I come across don't know anything about the Bible or history.
So funny - it really is. Keep grasping and flailing. It fits a guy who gets so worked up over Christmas
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:43 pm to BC_t_AD
Merry Christmas
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:46 pm to BC_t_AD
Grateful to live in a region where this is the longest thread on the board today, even if it is a bunch of ninny’s barking at each other. Guessing this isn’t a major topic on the Big 10 boards.
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:48 pm to Pastor Mike
So instead of arguing the point, you try to argue one of the sources and then ridicule the man for his source material.
Sticking with the playbook I see.
Sticking with the playbook I see.
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:48 pm to Barbellthor
Amen! God Bless and Merry Christmas to you and your fam!
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:50 pm to AgsNguyening
You are hilarious.
Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:51 pm to Pastor Mike
quote:
So funny - it really is. Keep grasping and flailing. It fits a guy who gets so worked up over Christmas
Notice that you haven't actually addressed my claim. I know your type. Pastor Mike from Sylacauga, Alabama. Probably can't conjugate a thematic Greek verb. Probably doesn't know who Julius Wellhausen was. You just know that "thee BIBLE is thee word a God."
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:51 pm to X
quote:
The power of groupthink is remarkable and quite scary. It's got all of these people believing in the invisible boogie man in the sky.
Ah yes, using the most classic and derogatory 5th grade insults you can think of. Always signs of high intelligence.
Posted on 12/25/21 at 3:57 pm to Notrub14
I hope your friend will see who is guilty of the name calling.
Anyway, have a Merry Christmas, Notrub14 or whoever you may be. Oh, and the OP point remains - Jesus was born to die as a sacrifice for sins. When he was born, the month and the day, doesn't matter. It is worth celebrating everyday.
Enjoy your holiday
Anyway, have a Merry Christmas, Notrub14 or whoever you may be. Oh, and the OP point remains - Jesus was born to die as a sacrifice for sins. When he was born, the month and the day, doesn't matter. It is worth celebrating everyday.
Enjoy your holiday
This post was edited on 12/25/21 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 12/25/21 at 4:01 pm to Pastor Mike
quote:
I hope your friend will see who is guilty of the name calling.
Anyway, have a Merry Christmas, Notrub14 or whoever you may be. Oh, and the OP point remains - Jesus was born to die as a sacrifice for sins. When he was born, the month and the day, doesn't matter. It is worth celebrating everyday.
Enjoy your holiday
I hope you enjoy your holiday also.
Next time dispute someone's argument (e.g., argue that Quirinius was actually governor of Syria when Jesus was born). Saying "you learned that from a liberal so it's wrong" isn't a good argument. But I know that's easier that actually marshalling evidence for your position.
Posted on 12/25/21 at 4:04 pm to X
quote:
My kid has faith in Santa Claus, who is just as real as Jesus.
I hope this is hyperbole. Jesus is the most famous person to ever live. Overwhelmingly, historical scholars typically don't debate he lived, nor the account of his life presented in the gospels. What people debate is the supernatural aspects of it all, which is understandable.
But to deny he lived? Or lived the life told in the New Testament? If there was no Bible, you could recreate His entire life, and the entire Gospel, from purely secular resources. This includes music, paintings, books, and even writings from other religions.
Now, you can say you don't believe he is the Son of God, died for our sins, rose again, and performed miracles - that's your choice. But there's no way to claim he's not real. That stance simply requires ignorance of history.
And I know the one guy in here will say he's a mash up of different mythologies, but that is easily debunked with just the tiniest amount of effort in historical research.
Edited out my own "no real Scotsman" folly. Oof.
This post was edited on 12/25/21 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 12/25/21 at 4:04 pm to BC_t_AD
Jesus
Is the hope of a messed up world. His love trumps everything for those who trust him.
Is the hope of a messed up world. His love trumps everything for those who trust him.
Posted on 12/25/21 at 4:06 pm to Notrub14
Too funny.
I have a position on this issue - I have advanced degrees in Bible, Theology, and the original languages of the Bible. I really had no intention getting involved in your errant claims until you tossed in the ramblings of a guy I view as a heretic into your discussion.
These types of arguments always turn ugly because we feel very passionately about them. Anyway, Merry Christmas.
I have a position on this issue - I have advanced degrees in Bible, Theology, and the original languages of the Bible. I really had no intention getting involved in your errant claims until you tossed in the ramblings of a guy I view as a heretic into your discussion.
These types of arguments always turn ugly because we feel very passionately about them. Anyway, Merry Christmas.
Posted on 12/25/21 at 4:06 pm to Hogfan13
quote:
I hope this is hyperbole. Jesus is the most famous person to ever live. No real scholars debate he lived, nor the account of his life presented in the gospels. What people debate is the supernatural aspects of it all, which is understandable.
This is only partly true. The overwhelming consensus among scholars is that Jesus existed. However, most historical scholars doubt the historicity of large parts of the Gospels.
Posted on 12/25/21 at 4:09 pm to Pastor Mike
quote:
Too funny.
I have a position on this issue - I have advanced degrees in Bible, Theology, and the original languages of the Bible. I really had no intention getting involved in your errant claims until you tossed in the ramblings of a guy I view as a heretic into your discussion.
These types of arguments always turn ugly because we feel very passionately about them. Anyway, Merry Christmas.
You're entirely too focused on Raymond Brown for some odd reason. His position is the position of the vast majority of scholars.
And saying that Brown is a Catholic so his arguments can be dismissed without consideration is just the height of stupidity and bigotry. I'm sure that you're a member of some stupid little American religious sect and I would still take your arguments seriously if you had any good ones.
This post was edited on 12/25/21 at 4:10 pm
Posted on 12/25/21 at 4:12 pm to Notrub14
quote:
most historical scholars doubt the historicity of large parts of the Gospels.
I have not found that to be the case. I don't know where you would come up with that (it's not like there's a survey every historical scholar has to take).
Are there debates about dates, timing, exact locations, things of that nature? Sure. Jesus's life is pretty well documented in secular, Christian, and non-Christian religious writings.
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