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re: Kalen DeBoer is an Elite Recruiter

Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:35 pm to
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
7824 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:35 pm to
quote:

Alabama's average ranking per recruit is 92.86 for the Class of 2025.

For perspective, Georgia and Alabama's average ranking per recruit for the Class of 2024 was 93.61 and 93.12.


The issue you're missing with this analysis is that most teams end up filling up with low 4-star and 3-star recruits at the end of the recruiting cycle to make up their final class which brings down everyone's overall ranking from where it stands at this time of year..

What made Saban special is he filled up with top flight talent without much of a dip. Smart and Day do the same to a lesser degree than Saban did. But MOST coaches don't.

Right now Bama is 7th in average player ranking with their 92.86. That's a more accurate analysis of where they stand. They're 3rd in the rankings because of volume, not because of the quality of the class.

That's not bad. But I can't remember a time where at any point in the season under Saban where Bama wasn't in the top 3 in average player ranking.

Deboer is doing pretty good in recruiting by the standards of any school other than UGA, Bama and OSU in recent years. But by the standards of those schools, he's not up to snuff.

The reality right now is with where Bama is sitting they seem likely not just to finish below OSU and UGA, but also teams like Clemson, Oregon and LSU.

You're making the same kind of mistake that Tennessee or Florida fans have made in the past when their team is higher in the rankings with 5+ more commits than other teams with a similar or higher average player rating.

Bama has 17 commits and 1 5-star. In a Saban class, with 17 commits there would be at least 3 5-stars on board (like OSU has with 16 commits and 3 5-stars).

It will still be a top 10 class. Somewhere between 6 and 10 most likely. But you're not being realistic if you think this will be a top 3 class with 5+ 5-star recruits in it. Deboer is settling for lesser guys early in the process which is why his commit number is high but the number of 5-stars is lower than normal under Saban.

Look at the uncommitted guys in the top 10.

2 is favored to Clemson with OSU, Tennessee and UGA also at high interest.
3 is favored to Texas with Oregon, LSU and OSU also at high interest.
4 is favored to UGA with USC and Miami at high interest.
7 has no favorite with UGA, OU, Miami and Orgon at high interest.
10 is favored to A&M with LSU, OSU, OU, Oregon, Texas and USC at high interest.

Bama has none of the top 10 committed and none showing anything other than "cool" interest in Bama.

The next 10 has 3 guys showed as having anything above "cool" interest and 0 commits.

The 10 after that has 1 commit to Bama and 1 other player with more than "cool" interest.

That's not the normal level for Bama under Saban. Not even close. 1 Commit and only 4 other players amongst the top 30 (which includes ALL 5-stars) who even have more that a little interest in Bama at this stage.

That's not like it was under Saban..

OSU (who'll likely end up with the top class this year) has 3 commits from the top 30, 2 others they're shown as "leading" for and is at the top of the lists in terms of interest for 4 more. That's where Bama was at this point under Saban usually. In the running or having commits for around 8-10 of the 5 stars.

Bama basically needs to hit on EVERY other 5-star who has any interest in them finish in the top 3 this year. And that will probably only net them 3rd.

If they hit with 2 of the 4 that have interest in Bama in the top 30, they'll probably end up around 5th or 6th. Less than that and they'll be around 7-10.


31-40 Bama has 1 commit and 0 interest.
41-50 Bama has 0 commits and 0 interest.
51-60 Bama has 1 commit and 0 interest
61-70 Bama has 0 commits and 2 with interest.
71-80 Bama has 1 commit and 2 with interest.
81-90 Bama has 0 commits and 1 with interest.
91-100 Bama has 0 commits and 3 with interest.

Bama's playing on a smaller playing field than in years under Saban in terms of the number of recruits interested, and they're playing for guys further down the list than Saban normally did.

Not being Saban isn't saying that Deboer sucks. It's just indicated that there IS a step down and the data is showing that it's happening. It's delusional to think he's at Saban's recruiting level.
Posted by RelentlessTide
Member since Feb 2020
4138 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:43 pm to
Can’t argue with your logic. But, DeBoer has won with talent that doesn’t match the current evaluation standard. So, whether he gets the top recruiting class or not, may be immaterial.
Posted by AuburnTigers
9x National Champion
Member since Aug 2013
17432 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:44 pm to
quote:

DeBoer has won with talent that doesn’t match the current evaluation standard.
What has he won exactly?
Posted by RelentlessTide
Member since Feb 2020
4138 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:47 pm to
Games - at an 88% rate for the last two years
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
7824 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:48 pm to
quote:


Can’t argue with your logic. But, DeBoer has won with talent that doesn’t match the current evaluation standard. So, whether he gets the top recruiting class or not, may be immaterial.


Deboer is an excellent coach (in terms of x's and o's, pre-game prep and player development).

And by all appearances he's going to be able to recruit well at Bama. By that I mean on the level of recruiting that coaches like Dabo Swinney, Mark Richt, Brian Kelly or Steve Sarkisian recruit at.

What I don't see evidence of yet is that he's an ELITE recruiter like Ryan Day, Kirby Smart and Nick Saban are/were.

I think Deboer will come out of the gate very strong with great results this year and a next year. But after that I think there will be a slight but noticeable decrease in talent on Bama's roster compared to what we were used to seeing under Saban.

Is Deboer good enough that he can consistently "out coach" teams with equal to more talent (where as Saban largely faced teams with less talent)?

I don't know. It will be fun to find out.
Posted by RelentlessTide
Member since Feb 2020
4138 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:50 pm to
As I said, can’t argue with you. We shall see.
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
7824 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:57 pm to
quote:

What has he won exactly?


Well, he won a conference title from a P5 conference.

The list of current SEC coaches who've done that:

Deboer
Smart
Sarkisian
Posted by BasedCrimson
Member since Jun 2024
1019 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:58 pm to
Exactly. I'm not sure how much recruiting rankings really mean anymore.
Alabama has had a bunch of 5 star busts recently. .

The two teams that played for the natty last year were ranked #14 (Michigan) and #26 (Washington) in terms of overall talent composite according to 247. That's pretty astounding to me

Evaluations go way beyond recruiting services.
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 7:05 pm
Posted by captdalton
Member since Feb 2021
21079 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:59 pm to
Life has to be hard for you not being able to read nor count.
Posted by BasedCrimson
Member since Jun 2024
1019 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:59 pm to
quote:

Well, he won a conference title from a P5 conference.

The list of current SEC coaches who've done that:

Deboer
Smart
Sarkisian

Yep, and we already know that DeBoer owns Sarkisian. The big ? Is how DeBoer will fare vs Smart.
Posted by RelentlessTide
Member since Feb 2020
4138 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:01 pm to
quote:

I'll take LSU's #11 class with only 2 three Stars any day over that 7 Three star #3 class Alabama has right now


Don’t forget the Bama bump: it’s coming
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
7824 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:03 pm to
quote:

Yep, and we already know that DeBoer owns Sarkisian. The big ? Is how DeBoer will fare vs Smart.


As far as I know they played one time and Deboer's team won by 6 points.

Let's not redefine the word "own".

Posted by BasedCrimson
Member since Jun 2024
1019 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:06 pm to
quote:

As far as I know they played one time and Deboer's team won by 6 points.

They played twice in the past 2 seasons. DeBoer is 2-0
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
7824 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:12 pm to
quote:

Exactly. I'm not sure how much recruiting rankings really mean anymore.
Alabama has had a bunch of 5 star busts recently. .

The two teams who played for the natty last year never had a single top ranked class. In fact i dont think they ever cracked the top 5

Evaluations go way beyond recruiting services.


While it's true that evaluations go way beyond recruiting services, let's not put down what "on paper" talent means.

In 2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018 and 2017, the lowest a team that won the national title was ranked n 247's talent composite was 6th.

Yes, 2023 was an exception (Michigan was 14th). But Michigan also had a huge number of "covid seniors" on their roster last year. They were likely the oldest college football team on average we'll ever see in college football (other than BYU's teams due to Mormon missions). I think that was the anomaly rather than the rule.

Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
7824 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:16 pm to
quote:

They played twice in the past 2 seasons. DeBoer is 2-0


Didn't realize that. So a 6 point win and a 7 point win. Good on Deboer, but those seem like pretty close games to me.
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:30 pm to
Posted by Shaft Williams
Central City, LA
Member since Jul 2010
10360 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:40 pm to
Michigan has 3 guys that will be likely 1st round draft picks on their defense this season. Those guys weren’t elite high school prospects. Michigan came up with excellent coaching and great evaluations.

Posted by olgoi khorkhoi
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
16483 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:44 pm to
Les Miles looked all-world for 3 full years riding Saban's coattails before the wheels fell off. Deboer is likely a better coach than Les, but let's see where he's at after 4 years into it.
Posted by Chad4Bama
Member since Sep 2020
8985 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:40 pm to
Posted by DawginSC6/18/24 at 6:35 pm to TideSaint...

It's insane you took the time to research and post that. Is Bama recruiting your PhD thesis?

Anyway, Bama isn't falling off the map like opposing fans were somehow hoping for. No, he isn't going to recruit at the Saban level...no one has consistently come close to that over a decade+. The only people throwing around that standard are opposing fans because they can then say Bama has "fallen" if they have anything but the #1 class. Kinda silly.

Plus, with the transfer portal, recruiting rankings don't even mean as much as they did 5+ years ago.





Posted by SidewalkTiger
Midwest, USA
Member since Dec 2019
67904 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:52 pm to
quote:

It's insane you took the time to research and post that. Is Bama recruiting your PhD thesis?



Heaven forbid someone actually research and then apply fact and logic to their argument vs just spouting some random BS to get a rise out of someone.

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