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re: How about this Auburn controversy
Posted on 10/29/18 at 10:59 am to Teague
Posted on 10/29/18 at 10:59 am to Teague
quote:
Yep, but it's when an official of the state becomes involved that it begins to violate the constitution. An authority figure, endorsing a religion is a violation.
Love all the anonymous posters who think they're constitutional scholars.
Even our money somehow continues to endorse belief in God, in spite of your constitutional ruling.
Here's a thought: put your money...literally...where your mouth is. Try to live your life without using US currency, based on your belief that the government is constitutionally prevented from endorsing religion, and that your rights to live your life free from such endorsement have been violated. When you are unable to live without the use of currency, then file a lawsuit against the US government. Good luck.
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 11:05 am
2
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:02 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Even our money somehow continues to endorse belief in God.
Still trying to fight those evil commies.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:03 am to Teague
That a silly and specious argument. The "separation of church and state" clause in the Constitution was written by men who lived in a world that was not too far removed from the Reformation. In that time, it was not at all uncommon for a king/prince/lord who converted from one religion to another to force all of their subjects to also convert, whatever the subjects' personal feelings on the matter might be. That is what "separation of church and state" is designed to prevent. Americans are free to believe in and exercise whatever religion or irreligion they choose. People praying at a football game in no way impinges on your right to personal religious freedom. Telling them they can't do it does impinge on theirs. I'm not sure what about that is difficult to grasp.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:04 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Even our money somehow continues to endorse belief in God.
Yes, but that's another bullshite topic for another day. They wiggle out of that with a lame Deist explanation of "god." But, we can't change the subject just because you've run out of comebacks.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:05 am to AU24
quote:
The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF)
Why would someone, that doesn't believe in or care if God exists, be worried about someone else having prayer in public?
It's like they're afraid they'll melt if someone says a prayer in their presence.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:06 am to Teague
quote:
Even our money somehow continues to endorse belief in God.
Yes, but that's another bullshite topic for another day. They wiggle out of that with a lame Deist explanation of "god." But, we can't change the subject just because you've run out of comebacks.
Run out of comebacks? It's the perfect comeback...clear evidence that you're pretty clueless on the topic of "freedom of" vs. "freedom from."
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:06 am to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
Telling them they can't do it does impinge on theirs
It would if anybody said that. But again, it's the government-sanctioned official leading the prayer that is the issue. It's perfectly legal for students to lead their own prayer.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:10 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
"freedom of" vs. "freedom from."
I guess I'm going to need you to explain it to me.
Before you start, I'm sure you know James Madison, who proposed the 1st amendment, was opposed to chaplains for congress.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:10 am to Teague
quote:
It's perfectly legal for students to lead their own prayer.
I'm just dumbfounded that, over the last umpteen years, not one of the literally millions of people who have attended University of Tennessee football games...no doubt a few of whom have been atheists...have bothered to file a lawsuit to stop the practice of the pre-game prayer.
I wonder why. Could it be that no attorney anywhere thinks they have a case?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:12 am to BamaGradinTn
Why are you changing the subject again?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:12 am to Teague
quote:
"freedom of" vs. "freedom from."
I guess I'm going to need you to explain it to me.
Before you start, I'm sure you know James Madison, who proposed the 1st amendment, was opposed to chaplains for congress.
And yet we have one. How in the hell has that been allowed to continue?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:14 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
How in the hell has that been allowed to continue?
It's a simple matter of numbers. Almost everyone in america is, or professes to be, a christian.
But, let's stick to what the laws are, and not which ones are being broken due to majority vs minority.
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 11:15 am
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:15 am to Teague
quote:
Why are you changing the subject again?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we were talking about government officials forcing prayer on individuals.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:16 am to Teague
quote:
But, let's stick to what the laws are, and not which ones are being broken due to majority vs minority.
No, let's stick to ones that the minority has a snowball's chance in hell of having the Supreme Court side with them on.
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 11:17 am
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:16 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we were talking about government officials forcing prayer on individuals.
Yes, so you're just citing examples?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:19 am to Teague
quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we were talking about government officials forcing prayer on individuals.
Yes, so you're just citing examples?
Jesus, please tell me you neither are this stupid nor are so full of yourself that you're so deep in denial that you have to resort to endless face saving attempts.
You're the one who cited..yes, that was YOU citing an example...of James Madison not believing Congress should have a chaplain.
I merely pointed out how absurd YOUR EXAMPLE was, given that over 200 years later we still have one.
So in the grand scheme of things, what James Madison...YOUR EXAMPLE...believed individually really isn't worth two cents, now is it?
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 11:21 am
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:20 am to Goldtide1
quote:
Yea we need to keep it because the team that prays the most always wins. (Rolls eyes). This holier than thou attitude, and the mix of church and college football has always made me dislike auburn a little bit more.
Ummmm you are the team that brought the Navy seal survivor dude in before our game with Bama in 2014. Half of the research State does directly benefits the military. It left a bad taste in a lot of State people’s mouth to basically bring in a national hero and have him openly motivating your team to destroy us.
No team has the right to use religion as an intimidating factor against another team. Hugh Freeze tried that shite. Same goes for people who have served and supposedly represent all of us.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:22 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Jesus, please tell me you neither are this stupid nor are so full of yourself that you're so deep in denial that you have to resort to endless face saving attempts.
You're the one who cited..yes, that was YOU citing an example...of James Madison not believing Congress should have a chaplain.
I merely pointed out how absurd YOUR EXAMPLE was, given that over 200 years later we still have one.
You seem to have missed WHY I cited that example. You were going to explain the difference between "freedom of religion" and "freedom from religion" to me (still waiting). I assumed you were going to discuss the relevant parts of the constitution to do this. And, seeing as the very guy who wrote that amendment was against government chaplains, I didn't want to have you type out a lot of nonsense only for me to easily shoot it down by proving that is not what Madison meant.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:27 am to Teague
Again, it would be a problem if the government-sanctioned official were speaking as the mouthpiece of the state telling everyone that they must actively participate in the prayer or face consequences. But, they are not. They are simply exercising their personal freedom of religious expression, which they do not give up upon taking public office. You are misrepresenting the issue, and since you seem like an intelligent person, I have to assume you are doing it deliberately.
Would you have a problem with the government-sanctioned official stepping aside and allowing a student to lead a public prayer?
Would you have a problem with the government-sanctioned official stepping aside and allowing a student to lead a public prayer?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 11:32 am to Teague
The gist of this is what level of leadership is involved in pushing a certain religious system that could make players who do not want to be involved feel slighted or be treated differently.
I don't know exactly what I think specifically on this issue. I don't think it's the same as general "prayer in schools" or the government sanction of a certain religion (which is nothing but a show anyway and it is laughable to act like boilerplate governmental religious nonsense is in line at all with Christian principles).
I think college sports are a unique crossover as coaches are helping a kid deal with becoming an adult in a way almost no other "government employee" does. And, like it or not, to a lot of kids (especially in the south) part of their personal life is some level of Christianity. So, the question is how do you deal with that without hurting/alienating other kids who don't want to he involved with that. Personally I think that means individuals become involved in local churches, not having a religious advisor type on your football payroll.
I think there are probably a lot of schools who have figured that balance out that you don't hear about. And that is why you don't hear about them.
I don't know exactly what I think specifically on this issue. I don't think it's the same as general "prayer in schools" or the government sanction of a certain religion (which is nothing but a show anyway and it is laughable to act like boilerplate governmental religious nonsense is in line at all with Christian principles).
I think college sports are a unique crossover as coaches are helping a kid deal with becoming an adult in a way almost no other "government employee" does. And, like it or not, to a lot of kids (especially in the south) part of their personal life is some level of Christianity. So, the question is how do you deal with that without hurting/alienating other kids who don't want to he involved with that. Personally I think that means individuals become involved in local churches, not having a religious advisor type on your football payroll.
I think there are probably a lot of schools who have figured that balance out that you don't hear about. And that is why you don't hear about them.
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 11:34 am
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